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Mechmate Almost Home in Holland! #92 - Taipei Taiwan
Hello, all. I spent allready some evenings on the mechmate forums and at the plans. Gerald, I saw your name very much times allready And I have much respect for the work you put in this forum!!!
Let's introduce myself. I am Rik and I live in Taipei for almost a year now. I am a Dutch guy from the Netherlands. I speak only 2 words chinese. and thats "hello"and "thank you" My mechanical skils are OK. but elektonic...... I want to make a "small mechmate" that means table size 125 x 65 cm. this because i don't have the place to place a full size yet. Full size means for me 125 x 245. but once I can place it.... for this reason I make the x axis 65cm and the y allready full 125 cm size. The machine has to place in the "maid room" from my house. because I am allready started I will start up a tread in the allready started tread. I have allready just fun with collecting the materials localy here. |
started in Taiwan
Merged the "introduction" thread to this "started" thread
I just introduced my self at the forum. but I started allready with bulding my mini mechmate. I decided to build a 125 x 65 cm mechmate. the reason is that I can't place a full size 125x245 mechmate yet. (not in Taiwan, and not in the Netherlands) I am a Dutch guy living for some years in Taiwan. So I started to print out the drawings and make the decisions what i want to bild. this means a table which can be easely disassembled ,the rail made with skate. and stepper motors. I print out the drawings, made a selection of the drawings and studied the ammount of parts I need. after this I start collecting the materials. I bought a markatec disc grinder and some cutting wheels. I shipped my emco compact 8 lath to Taiwan. All my large machines are stocked in the Netherlands and I have only my hand tools here. The old "maid"room is my place where make and place the planed mechmate. I found a street in Taipei where I can get all the materials for the mechmate. It's lovely steet with all kind of small shops which are specialised in a products. So you have shops who are selling only springs. (from 2 mm to 80cm) you have shops who are selling brass. shops wiht bearings. shops with guidings, shops with gears, shops with motors. (50 % oriental motors) shops wiht materials and shops wich can machine parts. Most chops don't have more than 3 machines in it. a cutter, a lath and somethimes a steal planer. So I think there are arround 50 shops in this only street. Then I am walking with the drawings and my calliper in this streat , my little girl in the strawler, and buy the materials, they don't speak any word english, and I don't speak only 2 words chinese. shi shi and nihou. that means thank you and hello. 2 weaks ago I ordered the material for the table in one of these shops I had to pay 14.000 ntd thats around 420 us dollar (be aware that I only nead a small table). The shopowners knees were completely worn and I had to hold him at list 3 times to avoid falling. His wife was doing the finacials in his shop. 2 days later I could collect the materials. My car was a little bit lowered by the weight. Then there was a shop with bending machines. there was a wife, arround 50, sitting on 30 cm material sitting behind a HUGE bending machine and I saw a plate material which were parts cutted out by laser. The wife takes care of my girl which was sleeping in the strawler and I walked also over the 30 cm stock material over the floor to the shop owner. I maked clear that I would like to have laser cutted parts. He phoned somebodey who could speake some english and I got an E-mail adres where I could sent the pxd files and what I wanted So I sent an E mail with what I wanted and a Taiwnese colleage did some translation work and called about the quotation. Yesterday I received the quotations but the ammount of parts was not OK. and I didn't know if the price was including the bending work. Colleage made a phone call price was including bending. price for all laser cutting parts 7100 ntd. thats 230 usd. Tomorrow I am going to place the order and pay the deposit. I don't go to discuss the asked price!!! Thats what I like about the forum. You know some prices. In taiwan they allways discuss always the prices... For me the price is OK I also asked a price for the v track bearings. I couldn't found them in one of the shops in my favorit street. I send an e-mail to Yi tong in china. but 35 us dollar each..mhh. and shipping cost same as from us..hmmm I will order in Us. i can let made the "shoes"of the v track bearing for 250 ntd (hardened) and a bearing was 330 Ntd. this are the prices given directly whithout negotiation. 32 ntd = 1 us dollar. So I am going to place a order in US soon. The stepper motors. First I was thinking ordering the stepper motors at kelling.and making the 3:1 belt drive gear box. but my collegue called for a price quotation for the oriantal motors 296 with the 7.2 gear box somewhere here :price 7000 ntd each lets say 220 usd Then I think I am going to install first choise motors, om 296 with 7.2 gearbox in comination wiht geko 203v. So I am looking arround where I can buy them here. Because I don't have knowledge from the motors, drivers and electronics I have to trust the information on the forum. I have a very positive feeling for this. So tomorow ordering the laser parts, And when I have all the stuf, I go back to the shop where I bougt the materials for the table and going to""explain"" him for the welding. Drilling I will do myself at company and I bourgt the required drills and "tappen" this ar the tools to make M5, m6, m8, payed 4700 ntd for a set M3 up to M16 including the required drils (2 pieces each) and "Tappen"holder. a large and small size Also the lady in the shop did't speak 1 word english but with my pencil and a peace of paper..I survive in taiwan. I found a supplier for the racks in Taiwan. they can supply 2 meter m1 racks and I will ask for the hardend gears. didn't do yet. I will updat this forum with my progress. I also will add some photo's frome the shops in my "favorit"street here in Taipei. Gerald, I reed that you visit India, plans for Taiwan? bee my guest. and I will show you my favorit street. Regards, Rik |
Rik, it sounds like fun for a Kaaslander to work between the Chinese! If you are a typical Dutch guy, then you are also double their size. :)
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Its taiwan Gerald, In "mainland" they are smaller. but there are some taiwanes with the same size. The sizes of the girls, thats an other story. they are definitely smaller as in the Netherlands. Within 2 weeks I go back to the Netherlands for vacations and "friet met frikandel" Thats what I am missing here. The dutch cheese is available, also trapist from my local dutch town, la trappe from Tilburg is available. For the "hagelslag" that are chocolate dips for on the bread, I have to ask dutch collegues who are travelling to Taiwan. For the mechanical stuff, just drive arround and keep your eays open, program the shops in the navigation system so i am able to find them back.
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Waar is jou tuisdorp in Nederland?
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mooi dat zuidafrikaans. Ik kom uit Goirle net 4km van de belgische grens.
For the guys who have some problems wiht dutch and old dutch, I am comming from Goirle, thats 4 km from the Belgium border. |
So I ordered the laserparts. some time ago. my lasercutter find out that there were some diferences between the pdf files and the pdx files.
It were the files 10 20 451 and 10 20 452. Now I am typing this a see what it is. I supplied the drawings for bending. On the bent drawings are still the slots for geared screw heads on the cut files they are removed. For me a sign that he has studied wel the drawings. parts should be the 10 of august ready. I had installed my lathe. And I think it hasn't been used last 20 years. placed the 220- 110 converter and made the turned parts. I also made the x stopper blocks square on my lathe. First the lath is starting to turn wel, but I think my capacitors needs to be replaced. My dutch collegue, Jewa has visited me and we had a nice whole eavaning about cnc routers. He has bild a small one himself with uhu controler and servo. I made allready the safe stepper choise recommended in this forum. For the electronics I need the help from this forum. but after this evening hmmmm. Showed Jewa also my favorit shop street in taipei. He Enjoied as wel as I do.We visited my lasercutter in this street. We had to enter the shop by walking over 40 cm high stock material on the floor. just lovely. He had arranged a very wel englisch speaking man, to explain the differences between the pdf and dxf files. I also looked arround for a welder. Fist want to do myself. but I saw at some places in my rental house the wiring. I think when I start to weld it will cause a fire. All those heavy steal parts again in my poor honda. and go uphill 25% After a break from a couple of weeks I will restart. |
Rik, the dxf are the most up to date.
The title block of the pdf drawing tells you the purpose of the drawing. The bending process is not affected by slots in the plate, there was no urgent reason to change the drawing for the bending. |
some progress
After some weeks "vacation" in the Netherlands back in Taipei. During vacation my laser parts were cutted and bended. I was very pleased with the cutting and bending quality. I assembled the Y car and it is fitting very nice togehter. espcialy the bending work has been done very nice.
Ordered also the gecko 203v motor drivers, they have discount this month. I ordered at friday in US, at monday, tringgggg. arrived in Taipei. First I thougt they sent 3 instead of 5 but those are so small, this because there where 3 bags in the box, some of the bags contains 2 drives. Great service! So I am preparing everything to go to a welder. I also want to look for a flat piece of granite to do the scating grinding. I saw a place near the road were they had stones. I think I going to ask to "lent" one. I prepared my grinder for cut the L profils at the right height and bought 25 metabo grinding discs (200 Ntd = 4.5 euro) for cutting the height I made my own device, for the V cutting I will use the scate. the scate parts I have to assemble. For this week I will see if I can order the bearings and the rack and pinions. Bearings will come from US, China is more expensive. |
Welcome Rik,
Seems like you are well on your way! |
Hi Rik,
I'm also in Taiwan and completed construction on my Mechmate about 5 months ago. Good to see someone on this island is building one too. If you need any assistance during your build, please don't hesitate to ask. |
Hey Rik,
We look forward to seeing pictures of your build. |
Last saturday I picked up my Welded frame and bolded it together. I planned it to pick up friday but I spent 2 hours in a trafic yam.
They also welded the cable gutter guids for me. I was tinking to use a flat piece of stone for grinding the x and y guides. I prepared a set-up in the car-port. I promis to make some picture and upload them. Also nice to here that I am not the only with a mechmate in Taiwan. |
Hi Rik,
I got your message and tried to reply but your account is set not to receive private messages so I'll answer your questions here. I am using OM motors that is the top recommended motor (highly recommended). I got everything from back home (US) in one shot, motor, V-wheels, power supply, Geckos, PMDX. I had a friend headed this way bring it for me. You can get V-wheels made here for cheaper than buying them from the U.S. suppliers mentioned in the forum. If you need some help in this department, I'll be happy to assist. You are also invited to come down south to check out our setup and get some ideas for your build. I am somewhat bilingual so I don't have as much trouble communicating but do run into the occasional problem. Best of luck to you. |
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some comment to the pictures. It takes me some time to upload.
If placed some pictures taken in the street in Taipei where I get all my material. There is a picture where I bought the spings. The women behind the big forcing machine did the bending om my lasercuted parts. These lasercuted parts I get also I this shop but they outsourced it. There is also a picture of my scating set up, outside the house with a nice view over Taipei, but uptill now I didn't make sparks. You can see the lasercuted parts, bended by the lady, on the bench With kind regards, Rik |
Uploading Pictures
Rik,
On uploading pictures, did you follow Gerald's advice in this post? I cannot see the pictures in your posts #16 and #17. They appear as red X's. Hang in there. We're wishing you great success. The first few posts, with pictures, can be tricky. They were for me. |
Rik,
The scale of your machine really shows in the length of the cable chain supports! I can't wait to see this "mini" finished. Nice work. I also see you have the "universal" style motor plates. Personally, I like the option of having the geared and non-geared motors mount in the plate option. Good luck. Sean |
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some comment to the pictures. It takes me some time to upload.
If placed some pictures taken in the street in Taipei where I get all my material. There is a picture where I bought the spings. . . The women behind the big forcing machine did the bending om my lasercuted parts. These lasercuted parts I get also I this shop but they outsourced it. There is also a picture of my scating set up, outside the house with a nice view over Taipei, but uptill now I didn't make sparks. You can see the lasercuted parts, bended by the lady, on the bench With kind regards, Rik lets try to upload some pictures. Nice reaction, that you can see the size of my machine on the size of the cable guter holder. It's a small machine. table size will be 125x65. x axis will be 65 cm. Once if I have more space. I will enlarge to 245. but my maid-room under my house is to small. In the Netherlands I also don't have the space to place a large machine. I have allready some other equipment. I am assembling the machine in the glass house in front of my house. my children have there play area there. just as there father...:D |
Rik, those are great pictures!
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Rik,
Your pictures look great. Thank you for sharing the details of your build with us and also the pictures of the "market" and Taipei. That table looks good too. Good luck on the rest of your build. Keep the pictures coming. |
Rik,
Pictures look great. Always nice to see some pics of countries I have not had the pleasure to visit! :) |
Rik: My son is flying to Taipei as I type this so your pictures of the shop were very interesting to me. Have you found any good local sources for motors, controllers, power supplies, racks, etc? I would guess that the electronic parts are easily available in Taiwan. No?
Great looking table. Keep up the good work. |
Hi Rik,
Looks like you are off to a great start! Just out of curiosity, how much did it cost you to get your parts laser cut and bent up north? Thanks, P.S. Check your PM! |
laser cut parts
I payed 7000ntd for cutting and bendig thats 155 euro. (they asked 6800)
I am very pleased wiht the quality of the bending work. |
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not on floor 21
No no, I am not living at floor 21, I have a house in the Tiamu. I lived once in an appartment with my emco compact 8 in my bedroom. Then I promissed myself to do this never again:eek: It's on the hill side from Taipei. so I can make some noise:D:D. I allready bought a new table saw. Ridgid, but produced in Taiwan ofcourse. Nice fence but a little bit noisy. My robland K26 is stocked in the Netherlands, just as my dewalt radial saw and my schaublin lath. I have my Emco compact 8 over here. I made allready some parts for the mechmate on it.
I have to make some wooding things on its time. for this reason I am also making the mechmate. |
made some sparks
Yesterday I tried to made the guidings.
First I cut of the height to 28 mm. heigth was variating between 27.5 and 29.7. When I grind carefully I could do one length from 1.5 mm with one disk. also problemens with the final through cut. grinder blockes several times. Nut to lock disks was tightened with this action. cost me some effort to realese the nut. In the next profile a first made some cuts +/- 3 mm then I cut the profile in one time. In this case the grinder didn't block. I placed M8 mm studs wiht a ball at the end to guide over the steal plate. The ball didn't roll so there were som flat sides on the balls. this decrease the height with 0.5 mm So first I have to do some finetuning at the height. This is my plan. -first level my set up completely -go with a sharping stone over the surface to improve flatness of surface and profiles -Change cut grinding weel to the thicker ones -make the scate less senstive for wear. When it is everywhere the same height I am going to made the 45 degree edges. My wife heard the naburs, I wear proper ear protection so I didn't |
Rik try to find that type cutting disk what is on sides covered. I dont know how exactly explain, but disks what i used their side dont cut. You make carefully first cut and then later flute helps hold disk in right height
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quite on the forum but not In my carport!
Last week was quite on the forum, but not quite in my carport. O man, I maked some sparks with my skate. It spent two saturdays to cut and Equal the height. so the 45 angle still has to be made
I cut the L profile with 1 mm metabo disks. In the beginning The grinder blocked completely several times. I broke one disk (the first one in my life) The way which worked for me was first cutting 3-4 mm sleve by sliding the grinder left to the right, than cut the last 2-3 mm in one time. When I tried less than 2 mm. the grinder was blocking. When I was ready I quickly measured the hight at some places. Actualy it wasn't that bad as I thought. within 0.1 mm over 90% over the lengt, one bad area -0.6 mm I want the pare of guidings with the same height, Costed my some time en expirimenting wiht disks. the chinese "kinky" disk was not abrasive. The bosch disk was better. First I grinded the height with the bosch disk, and made it more smooth with a 120 grid disk. I will make some pictures of the equipment I used ( I need day light) and a discription from the way of working. I received 0.08 mm in the beams. between the beams is 0.1 mm, I find out a good way of working to receive these results. I was thinking om grinding them completely equal but my kids would swim. I am preparing my scate for the 45 degree angle. I am going to make a fine height adjustment on the scate. I collected the materials for this but I have to make it. |
sparkles and some noise made
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Making the guiding rail costed me some effort. I cutted allready the L profiles but I wasn't satisfied with the height. so I wanted to finetune the height
I leveled the grinding disk with a bubble level. ( the steel work table was leveled first) This to make sure that the disk is flat on the surface. I think I can also see improvement in the final roughness from the surface http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attac...1&d=1257087911 To cut the rail on height. I used a gage to check the height. I market the higher places with a marker and grind it with the grinder. I placed some screws in the front of the grinder holder to keep the grinding disk at the same space. I used a fine grid (ac 120) grinding disk each pass was removing some 0.001-0.002 height. This is creating equal height and a smooth surface. http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attac...1&d=1257087911 Then I modiefied the skate. I wanted to set the height easy and accurate. I can adjust the height with the M8 rods which are mounted on the handle bars. ofcourse bougt in my favorith street. http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attac...1&d=1257087911 http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attac...1&d=1257087911 Then I scated, with supervision from my daughter the angels on the iron. Firste wiht a rough grinding disk, afterwards with a fine grinding disc. http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attac...1&d=1257087911 I would polisch wiht a polisch disk but the disk doesn't fit into the scate. I will polisch it with some sandpaper. The quality is allready good but will be perfect after some polisching. next step wil be drilling the holes in the guidingrails and beams. Then I have to go back to my favorith street for welding. I tried to find v wheels in taiwan but until this moment I didn't found. Only some places were they can make the wheels custom for me. But I think they can't do the grinding afterwards. I also checked the website several times for motor choise. First I was think buying the oriental motors with gearbox, but I'am still thinking making the belt drives |
Rik, you have done some amazing things to get great precision. Just remember that the rail is flexible and it will follow the shape of the beam when you screw it down. That you will fix with shims, and you can also fix other small defects with shims.
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thanks
a great read rik thanks for sharing your progress ,look forward to seeing it finished;)
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question homing sensor
I want to drill the 20 mm holes in the rials. but first I would like to see how those swichtches are mounted. and what is comming in the 20mm hole
Has somebody picutures if this? Do I need to drill the 20 mm holes on both rail on both site? or is 1 rail on both side OK. are the homing sensors also used as limit switches. I would like the situation that the power is from the motors before they hit the hard end stops With kind regards, Rik |
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The sensors will do "homing" and "limits"
Nothing goes in the hole. The sensor detects metal and the hole is suddenly NOT metal :) |
proximity switches
I thougt there was going M1 18027 a 20 mm round piece of metal whith an excentric hole in the 20 mm hole. I was wondering how to clamp it
I think that I have to outsource the drilling of the 20mm hole. The speed of the drilling machine I can use, can't go lower than 450 rev/min on 10 20 000 gantry assembly I see M1 18 000, the prox switch holder 2 times, on 10 30 000 y car assy, I see M1 18 000 1 time on 10 40 000 z slide assembly I don't see a proximity switch. on the part list from David Moore, is see 4 proximity swithces Is there a proximity switch mounted on the z slide? |
The M118027 eccentric is an option if people want to move the hole for adjustment. I don't think that anyone has actually used it. That eccentric can be glued in.
The standard drawings do not have a sensor on the z-slide. A couple of people have fitted sensors to the z-slides, using their own designs. You can do the 20mm hole at that speed if you use a hole saw and lubricant. (even a standard drill will work if you increase the hole size by 4mm at a time, but it is not pretty.....) |
For my holes I used a 5/16" pilot, then a 25mm step bit made for panel work. Worked quickly and clean - as you can see from the picture Gerald posted of my proximity installation.
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smoke in the basement.
This evening I am "off" I turned off the electricity in the basement after the wall outlet became completely black and smoked.
Am glad, I didn't bought weld equipment and did the welding myself. In my favorit street, there is a shop specialized in pipes. they had pipe in size 1 inch outside 2 inch. Nice material for the bearings. I bougt 14 pieces from 17 mm for total 280 ntd. thats some more than 6 euro. Nachi bearings are 60 ntd each so I'am going to give it a try to make it myself. I red that it is not really necessary to harden the shoes. And my wife told me already several times I didn't use my lath much So I was turning the "shoes" for the bearings. my emco is 220 volt and with a transformer connected to the 110 volt wall outlet. After I returned from a tea break, there was some smoke. I turned of the headswitch for the basment and tomorrow I will have a look to replace the wall outlet last weeks I could spent much time on my project, and in the available time I did some resurch on the forum for the materials I still have to buy. Last saturday I orderd the gears, racks, flexable cable gutter, and the pulleys for the and I decided to make a 1:3 belt gearbox for the motors. The motors I am going to order at "tedmotors"in taiwan. A dutch collegue showed my some very nice electronic shops were they have all the required electrical materials. And of course we had a lot of discusions about the mechmate. He just builded a smaller cnc router for circuit bords. My x and and y cart are ready to take to the welder. For the 20 mm holes in the x and y guide I used a hollow drill. I was easer to do than I expected So this evening I could spent updating my tread instead of turning my "shoes" I will make some pictures and upload them. 2010 will be a happy mechmate year |
some progess
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http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attac...1&d=1272205358
picture from my transformer |
hmmmm
I just updated my story for an hour, but when I whould add the picture the program blocked. so I first added the picture and know do my story again.
Its a time ago when I updated the bulding progess. but In the meanwhile I made some nice progress. I spent quite a lot time on making my V-groove bearings. Fist I made a serie with 2 single row bearings, I finished the shoe up to the V-groove and installed the bearings wiht my vessel (bankschroef) When I mounted the unit on a mandrell to make the V groove I mentioned that some bearings where not in line with eachother. When I had used 1 double row bearing, I didn't had that problem. So I had to remove some bearings which I had installed with locktite 648. With a hand press and a custom made press-piece I was able to remove the bearins. I cleaned every thing and Installed the bearins again. This time wiht the hand press. I also made a new batch and installed double row bearings. Than I had to make the V groove. I made a mandrell and installed the V-groove bearing without the v groove. I spent an evening grinding the right chisel and started to cut. but when my chisel was in the center of the V groove the chissel and the workpiece started to dither, Afther the dithering the mandrell was not in the center anymore (0.15mm) This happened 3 times. After the third time I thougth: Time to outsource. So I went to my tool shop which has also a tool grinding service and asked if he could make the V groove for me. First he provided me 2 test pieces, I checked and aggreed. I week later I had 2 sets of V groove bearings. I went to my favorit street in taipei to find a welder. the welder I usely go to, didn't want to to the job. I think the x cart was to big for him. I went to the shop where I bought steel profiles before. We started at 10, unloaded the car, Explained in dutch whatI want to do. He can not understand english so then I speak dutch. The welding instructions with the PICTURES were very usefull. At 12 o"clock his wife has provide a meal and after the nap from his helper we started again an arround 3 the x and y cart and the spider were welded. At home a checed the parallelety of the plates were the v-groove bearings are mounted. Y car was within 0.01 mm!!! x car had 0.3 mm. I was very pleased. Now I could mery the x and y cart on the frame. It was a very nice moment to see the y cart moving over the frame after a small push with my finger. I installed the cable chain, but was not pleased. The chain was not flat. I disassembled the chain and did some fine tunig of the seperated parts on my table saw. I was a hard job to remove al the yellow plugs from the chain. The chain lays flat on the chainholder know. In the meawille is Jeroen working on my interface board in the Netherlands. I want to use desk-cnc and jeroen is making an interface board for me. He has finished the layout and ordered some prints in.....china. So in a couple of weeks I expect the board. I ordered the motors from ted motors. first they orderd the wrong ones. (they findout themselves) then the orderd 1 instead of 5. I first had to try the one if it is OK. There is something to say for this approach but I can not testing yet so I have one motor at this moment. bay the way, they brought the motor to my office, Then I make a start with my electronics. I bougth proximity swiched. but I have to tell that I am searching them for the last 3 days, I put a bag with the proxis somewhere, but where.... I expect them to pop up sooner or later. I also ordered my transformer. first I spent some evenings at the forum for the calculations and the experience of other people to connect the pk299 F4.5 I want to connect my motors 35 volt and then they need arround 6 amp each. I ordered the DST86EM83A from ted motors but they are (should be)equal to the pk299. price 2000 ntd I didn't found ready made powersupplies here in taipei. but I found an area were are 4 shops in one street which are only selling transformers. I printed out the transformer I need and went to the shops. the third shop was YESSS. I ordered at tuesday, should be ready friday. finaly it was friday a week later but I have my transformer. Its over 6 kg and costs 2500ntd (55 euro) I also bougth 2 capacitors 22.000uF and some fuseholders so I can start making my transfomer an make a begin for the controlbox. For the mechanicaly parts I still have to make 2 things, the gearboxes and the z axis. For the gearboxes I orderd 24 and 72 xl gears. But those gears are a little bigger than the ones I see in the gearboxes treat. I had draw a new layout in outcad for the gearbox but I am not completely pleased with it yet. For the z axis I am going to use a linear guide and a ball screw. I have these parts and I have to make a motor mount for this unit. In the meanwhile I started to remove the black layer from my metal parts and put some rust protecion on it. I hope thats what I bought. I should learns some chinese Today I disassembled my frame and cleaned the glass-room where I builded up my toy. the children toys are also in this room. My sister, brother in law and 3 kids are comming next week so some kids have to sleep there. I still have to upload the picture of my black wall outled but the pictures are at my other computer |
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