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A gear rack will require changing at some point. Even hardened ones will wear, just not as fast. It is the nature of the beast. Gerald has written some about it. I remember reading it. However, 200 hours on a rack and pinion is not a long period of time but that all depends on the manufacturer of the gear rack and lubrication intervals. They best replaced as a set rather than one side rack and pinion only.
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Thanks Pet.... early bird too ...hein !! ;)
I too can remember....far...far...away !...have read Gerald advise on that...but maybe my age, and leanness not searching :rolleyes:....where is was posted ! It's unfortunate, but it'S on my to "change / maintenance" list ! BTW....with what you lube yours ?! Later ;) |
Most people here use graphite from what I have seen. I prefer petroleum based products and use NAPA Bar and Chain lube sometimes thinned with WD-40 and apply a thin layer with a flux brush. Just know that I have a magnetic grease catch\trap for the Y rack as with grease comes minute specks (you don't want that on your expensive wood). In the end, it only matters with the diligence of the preventive maintenance duties. I grease mine in hours of use which would be weekly for a person running a business. I use WD-40 as a cleaner so I can inspect the rack and apply new lubricant. Takes less than 10 minutes to do. No matter what your lubrication type, it is the cleaning and reapplying that will extend the life of the given component. Reapplying lubricate over the small minute particles will not flush away the small metal debris the will naturally occur over time only cleaning will do that. Just my two cents for what it is worth to you.
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Tks again Pete !
I'm one of those who use graphite ! I've been using this MolyKote for yrs in both woodworking and....car racing :eek: It maybe part of my "advance rack wear" ....meaning, this lub is so good, i tend to....neglect frequent clean/re-lub the beast :o .... I must get more maintenance diligent with the beast as I'm with other shop machines ! O-well !! Later ;) |
I would look at my pinion gears first before I change out my rack. Also have you been using any grease on them. It does not take much but it also helps.
With regards to the bearings in you router. Buy the best you can and not from the manufacturer. If you think about it, most routers used by a wood worker do not get that much use. You want the best bearing because of the amount of use. |
Nils,
I know you mean well, but trust me, at some 62$ for a pair of top German made “common-standard part#” sealed bearings, it can be quite a challenge to get any better quality…. Do not rely on the amount, these are so common Numbers ( mass produced) they simply cannot be compared to other bearing applications ( IE; Spindles). I totaly agree with you, I too would never consider to cheapen on such an important part….to maybe save what….30-40 $..... :cool: Later, ;) |
Robert,
It is just my input, it is not always the right input. |
Nils....maybe....not always, but your advice on this one ( and many others) is always well appreciated and mean well ;)
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Scallop marks !
Hi all !!
Not to certain, not experience here.....so I rather consult with some of your....wisdom ! I know my gear rack are showing ( and some sound too ) of wear and are in need to be replace. My other concern is I have lots of scallop / wash board marks on....say like a tangential or circle cuts. Straight line cuts ( X or Y in straight line) no issue, no noticeable marks, but as soon there is a combination cut like a tangential cut....ho my....not so nice ! Bear in mind I have a 4/1 trany, I do rough cuts clock wise and a finish pass CCW !....and that goes on "pretty" much any material, with the obvious difference do to this material variance !! I understand this is....very....open to many variable....but still, any advice on what I should look in too when I'll put this babe on a pause in order to change the racks....and inspect some ?? |
Did you notice this prior to changing the bearings?
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Thank for looking in to this with me Pete !
As for your Q : Funny ( or not so), It seem to slowly….kinda creep on me slowly. Although it “almost” seem to be there before, in a much less noticeable way. Since I had a hunch it was time to change the router bearing, I also though it may help solve part or…more…... this “scallop” growing issue. Yes it was there before I change the bearings, but, less. Another ….maybe factor….and bear with me as I’m no expert, some were & tear on my rack may also contribute a little ??! Since I can visually see some rack wear, again here, I’m thinking, change them and see how, if ever, it may help eliminating this scallop growing concern…. Here are some pics taking on the last job where there is more noticeable scallop marks. Tangential cut : Attachment 15250 and A straight line cut : Attachment 15249 As I’m hoping to get more….or should I say better….cuts from the beast coz I’m more & more offering my CNC cut services to other shops whom have yet got one (CNC)! Can’t offer such with this present situation !!:eek: Thanks for any “experience” advice ;) |
Have a look at your nodes in the part file. See if the scallops somewhat represent what the nodes look like. Also try on a scrap piece a manual cut that goes diagonally. IE G1 x0y0, x45y45. See if you end up with the same results. I had similar cuts when I used exact position had a large amount of nodes in my part files.
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I did look at this many times, years ago. It is very common and has been discussed to death. My personal view (the "experts" don't agree) is that a stepper motor cannot micro-step under load. I think it jerks from full step to full step when there is a heavy cutting load. (remember that there is a big cutting load at right angles to the direction of travel). If you reduce the cutting load with lower feed speeds, depth of cut, sharpness of bit, etc., then the quality of cut is much better.
Despite what the experts say, I think somebody must still do a practical test: Drop a motor from its rack and feed a program that makes it turn very slowly. Then grab the pinion with a pliers to put on some load. Tell us if you feel smooth or jerky motion? I think the answer lies there . . . . |
Gerard, thanks for your opinion. I know it’s been discussed zillion time before and excuse my lack of taking proper time to search over the database!
I’d like though to point out in this “growing” particular case, the cutting strategy this time was very conservative, in multiple passes, last pass at a very slow feed CCW only cutting 0.075’’ with a brand new bit!! What you’re suggesting is worth trying and should be quite interesting simply and increases knowledge & experience !!. I’ll do so and come back with my impression, Thks Gerard, hopping all is well on your side ? Russell ! Good point, I’ll look at the file and will also try a manual test as you pointed, did no thought of that as of yet !! I thinking….how & where did you look for those nodes in the parts file ?....although, my “ego” will tell ya, I’m starting only my 1st morning coffee….:o Thks guys...later ;) |
Robert, all is well this side, just getting older . . . . . 60 this year.
Such an experiment will be interesting. Especially if you drop both x and y motors. Try to see if one axis makes pulses while the other one is smooth. I also suspect that the PC has a problem to make two smooth streams of pulses to two motors at the same time. |
Gerald, I’m still not quite as experimented with me trailing 10yr before you, but I tend to say to my boys….Yes I’m getting « advance with age, not older » since I’m truly getting…… an advance mature adolescence status !
Glad to read all is fine ;) By intrigue and…..wishing to make this “proper”….what feed would you suggest me to set this test at ? |
A very slow speed. If you are having "chatter" problems at a known speed, try to estimate the speed of the slower axis. The pliers test is going to be a little dangerous and it will leave marks in the pinion gear. Therefore test as slow as you can, but it should be about a speed that gives you real life problems (the slower of the two axes). In fact you can drop the motors and run a real file, with both axes moving, but do the plier test on the slower axis. Does this make sense?
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Yes, very much sense !
I'll try this soon and will definatly give you new about my findings ! Thanks for this ;) |
This might be about what Gerald said
http://www.micromo.com/microstepping...-and-realities Quote:
Also good information would be from you Robert to measure the distance in those vertical chatter marks, as they look equally spaced. I had chatter like that only when my material is not held down properly |
That article does tie up with my observations and gut feel. Great to see someone tackle the subject objectively.
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Hé Robert are you sure sure there is no piece of shirt still stock in the gears? ;)
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It reminds me of resonance and even though it is most likely not the case. It will be interesting to see your findings. Out of curiosity, did you try different spindle speeds and what were the results at the same feed rate?
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Hi Guys….
Sorry for delaying my reply. It been said ( and I agree / follow this)….better say nothing than….nothing worth ! I’ve been running in order to meet a deadline on a commission work, witch therefore, I’ve haven’t taking the “appropriate” time that I’d like for troubleshooting the beast ! Although I haven’t done the “Gerald motor test” yet, nor the manual move test suggested by Russell, I’ve look closely to the scallops a few time since, to notice that if I aligned & stack the board ( those seen in the pic), all the scallop marks are at the same location, which leads me thinking, It has to be else than mechanical …since the board were not resisted ( placed) on a common (identical) staring point ( 0.0) !?! Later on, latest this next weekend, I’ll do all the “mechanical” test and come back with my finding… should be interesting !! THANKS you all for taking some time to help me sort this out…I really appreciate ! Later PS to Pete ; No, unfortunately, when cutting those, the spindle was set the same for all ( 19K) And….NORM !!.....DARN….that is interesting….I should look this up :p |
Robert, take your time . . . this subject is already about 20 years old:D
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Well….here’s a 1st review where I’m at with this. ( sorry for more detail then needed, but….I feel I had to !! ) :cool:
1st of, some delay for few work reason plus….my Betsy’s computer kinda give me some head spin and a hart race !! After +/- a week being out of work (Betsy that is), when I tried to start & boot her for this test, well….she simply refused to give me an eye blink, could hear the hard drives & CPU fan, but……..no screen ! DARN…. :eek:!! So here I go in " computer" trouble shooting, and, since I don’t do this daily, I had to un-rust some of my “getting” older sort of…. knowledge ! Finally, after some time, it only took removing the memory card (2 DDR) from the slots and back on in order to get her ( the screen) looking at me again…..lovely ;0))…but lost some time….and had none left to pursuit that day ! BTW it got me thinking, if this is another culprit to come, then I must look at a substitute soon, as this board, memory cards & so on is maybe “fairly” young in runtime, but still has over 5yr in calendar time !!....witch mean, very hard to get some replacement parts & motherboard if anything goes with this one ;-( !! Wondering with what in mind, if I should substitute my set up ? Raspberry Pi2 ?.....or anther board + chipset + memory card, so on…. set up :confused: Anyhow….. Back at this….let’s call it ….the motor “Gerald” test ! Humm…not so simple to do in order to get some constant results….while trying to “pinch” the pinions! I only drop the motors by removing the tension spring, so I could let the bolt assembly holding the motors for me, freeing at least one of my hands. Realise soon this is not going to be as simple I initially though…..by me self, alone…trying to grab two axis ( X & Y ) at the same time, while also staying alert, constant awareness of the Mach screen so I know ( and adjust if necessary) where is the program going…..so on ! Simply put, a chore doing it alone…. While I’m twisting my self-trying to do this…..My ears are picking something….NOT NORMAL !.... I soon realise that I’m having an issue with motor#2 on axis X ?? Oh-ho…what now ?? So…I go in troubleshooting for this “no motion axis”….to later, few hrs later where I’m having a very hard time to find time….to find out I’ve got a loose connection ! So….fix that to make sure I get good motor motion. But, you gest right…this must be my initial “scallops” cause / trouble maker ?? So….all this long thread to give respect back to Gerald & all others who cared, helped and gave me advise…..I’m willing ( hopping soon) to give some time for this “Gerald” motion test, but, I 1st must give some trial / test to my “corrected” situation to see if I have ( still have) some “scallop” issue ! Have been commission to produce some upcoming doors where I’ll need “all Betsy’s” ability & capabilities ( over 50 of them)! I think it’s going to be a good opportunity to see end results (acceptable or no scallops). Gerald,…do you think there is still something to pick up from ( feel while trying to pinch) and to learn from this, even if I get very little scallops after all ? Later….and thks again ! ;) |
Let's think about this for a while . . . . . before making some conclusion.
I do believe it is always useful to put your hand in parts of the the machine and feel what is going on. . . . . . . Thanks very much for the feedback! |
Not to push in any form, but it got me very interested in this motion "feeling" thing, Gerald
The part that is very hard with "regular" type pliers is " Then grab the pinion with a pliers to put on some load. "....with out "locking" the motor I'll try to find "soon" some of those pliers with a kind of nilon boot over the gaw, some thing like thses Coz I fell with out some "ease" of slippage, it's very sensible between loading it and locking the pinion, witch locks the motor ?? Thanks for your interest and....presence ;) |
Sculpting more then ever.... ;0))
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Hi guys….
Been quite a while since I gave some follow up on stuff made with my MM ! Must say, I’ve been very busy doing lots of stuff around my ongoing “new home & shop” project…..and mixing all this with the need to take (lots) time fishing for new customers. Not as easy these past few yrs….and surly that goes for many ! Anyhow, hers a few pics of some of my latest interesting and learning “adventure” to say the least !! this is one measuring 800 x 925mm machied area. Attachment 15331 Attachment 15332 Screen shot when compled ONLY the last finish pass ( 0.125" ball at 7% stepover)..... Total time ( Z-relief and 1st roughing pass W/ 0.375 ball ) was +/- 20hr....:eek: Attachment 15333 Attachment 15334 Attachment 15335 Also been doing a few "custom" bred boards..... This is the back side of one of them. Attachment 15337 AND... A long waited new "upcoming" not completed ...dust shoe Attachment 15336 PS to Gerald…. I’ve had since last purchase new set of gear and a new set of rack, witch as fallen in the….wait pile for some time, but, hoping to find (take) time to upgrade and give back some of my findings. AND to our US friends.....all the best on your 4th july !!...:D Later, ;) |
Beautifully done
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Just had to break this.....silence latly !
WHAT'S COOKING GUYS ?!?! no more....posting :p Is there another....reunion somewhere, and I'm not invited !? O-well.... I'll break this showing what's been happening in w/m BB ! Her's the customer ( contractor) original demo on what I had to base on to make 4 other different size Attachment 15379 for a total of 45 doors, that's 90 panels, machined both sides.....nice commission order after all... Her's a the start : Attachment 15381 Attachment 15380 Attachment 15382 So....who else got some thing going on ?!?:cool:....;) |
Nice job Robert, I assume that is MDF?
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That is a nice production money earner - well done :)
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Thks Gerald & Alan.
Yes Alan, that is.....hurrg...MDF ! Even with good dust collection, it just....magnetize to everything !! Got make a living....and keep Betsy....busy ;) What new with your betsy ?? Later |
Bon jour, Robert. Nice ice breaker. Thanks. I also regret that the forum seems to have fallen silent.
Question: Why did your customer need "custom" panels? Unique sizes? Very specific design requirement? And, are you responsible for cutting and assembling the whole door (45 times) or just cutting the unique panels? We always appreciate your contributions to the forum. |
Hi John !!
Ya....It seem this forum needs some.....orientation aside showing or exchanging on building a nice machine. But that's another topic by it self ! Although, it is nice to know there is a bunch of "friends", sharing the same ( almost) machine setup and therefore, making us less vulnerable with it !! and been able to come to some....rescue when in need !! I've learned ALLOT here !! My customer is another woodworking shop who has this contractor looking for this design with yes, some specifics dimensions and some little mods inspired from the turquoise demo door ! But mostly, it seem to be difficult getting this type around here !?! I'm only commission to machine those grooves (coves) all these panels faces, no assembly , no other parts....for now !! Did some MDF before, but never sooooo much in a little time !! Hate it more then ever !!....it's nasty and it clings to everything, very static sh#%& :mad: !!! I've been solicitation allot of other small & medium woodworking shops to sell my machining time and it's slowly getting some commission orders !!! But this production is pushing my Betsy ( and me too) to some limits and showing some true hidden weekness never seen before :o cheers;) |
Bonjour John :D
long time I've read about you !! How's your baby doing ?? Ya....It seem this forum needs some.....orientation aside showing or exchanging on building a nice machine. But that's another topic by it self ! Although, it is nice to know there is a bunch of "friends", sharing the same ( almost) machine setup and therefore, making us less vulnerable with it !! and been able to come to some....rescue when in need !! I've learned ALLOT here !! My customer is another woodworking shop who has this contractor looking for this design with yes, some specifics dimensions and some little mods inspired from the turquoise demo door ! But mostly, it seem to be difficult getting this type around here !?! I'm only commission to machine those grooves (coves) all these panels faces, no assembly , no other parts....for now !! Did some MDF before, but never sooooo much in a little time !! Hate it more then ever !!....it's nasty and it clings to everything, very static sh#%& :mad: !!! I've been solicitation allot of other small & medium woodworking shops to sell my machining time and it's slowly getting some commission orders !!! But this production is pushing my Betsy ( and me too) to some limits and showing some true hidden weekness never seen before :o cheers;) |
Unfortunately for the people who enjoy traditional woodwork, a CNC router is going to earn the most (or easiest) income while cutting boards, and most of these boards are synthetic "wood".
Our policy has been: Do not compete with your customer. We do not offer any sanding, gluing, assembly, finishing . . . our customers, who came to us because they don't have CNC, trust us with their drawings/designs knowing that we will not compete in their business. (Okay, it is not "we" any longer, my son has operated independently for many years already. But that business philosophy has also worked very well for me in other businesses. If you want the trust of a customer, show him you will not compete with him) |
So true Gerald....so true.
Couldn't agree more with your Business Philo. It's one thing I came to realize the "hard" way as when I solicits those other woodworking shops for my CNC cervices. I say the hard way as when I started soliciting I was quickly faced with some "hostility" if ever I presented my self as an experienced fine woodworker....it kinda....threw a "rock" on the atmosphere and my presentation. Now, I present my self as a "business opportunity" offering openings and some simple solutions & possibilities. if needed, with my on going experience in this trade we can exchange & relate.....not compete....as you pointed !! It's a fine line I try very hard not to cross so they do not feel.....I'm a threat or "impostor".... but a future opportunity for their "end of the month" :D !! |
I have cut a lot of MDF and it not fun cutting. Yes it clogs up the dust collector and fills up the bag quickly.
I have not been able to connect to the right customers. Production is the key in my opinion. I will be interested in hearing about your progress and success. I have a feeling that I am close to closing and selling my machine. It will be hard to part with it. |
Nils....:eek:
"I have a feeling that I am close to closing and selling my machine." :eek: But why :confused:.....after all these yrs ?!? |
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