Got the cable track laid out again to fit the new hoses and vfd wire. Mounted the box for the vfd. Used an old industrial computer case and modified the back. Put aluminum on for the back plate then a one inch space then aluminum mounting plate. Used clear plexi for the cover with a cut out for access to the buttons but not the covers. Have two fans for additional air flow if needed. With the amount of dust that will be reduced from not having the massive fan from the pc 7518, the dust collector should work even better. The vfd wire is routed to the new enclosure and the water sensing wire is run to the main panel for the alarm.

Wiring almost complete. Need to update my wiring schematic to reflect changes. Still waiting on the spindle mount. One part is ready but the other two are not. I am not sure which will be easier. To program from the keypad or using the software. I have always done by keypad but have never messed with modbus. This will be a learning experience I am sure.

First smoke test complete. No Smoke left out.

Have tested the spindle now manually. Have some stray voltage floating on the case of the motor when not mounted. Dissipates to zero when mounted. Modbus is giving me a fit. I keep getting Timeout Received. Ordered a different cable to try with the rs232 - rs485 converter. Will keep you all posted and post when and if I figure the modbus out for the WJ200. Not sure it I can send control word, have seen bits here and there about only one control at a time. May have to use brain instead of script editing as I originally planned but first I have to get it to handshake.

Check the Slave ID or if the modbus is disabled on drive, also decrease UPDATE Frequency in Modbus setup to 10hz

Danilo,

I am assuming the slave id is the modbus address of the drive, is that correct? I did try to decrease the update freq but returned it to mach original setting of 50. I will move it back down. The cable I had was short so the length of the SP+ and SN- were long. I saw on machwiki that windows does not like 2 wire 485 so I opted to get a longer serial cable. This decision was based on all the videos on youtube show a very very short 2 wire connection from the converter to the drive. I am hoping to be able to change the m3, m4 and m5 scripts when I get it to communicate. I have never used modbus before so this is a steep learning curve for me. I opted for the WJ200 for the dynamic braking capability. I have not stumbled across a good reading source on modbus yet or Mach3 setmodoutput command explanation yet.

it should be quite the opposite, rs485 can be run up to 300 meters and is immune to noise due to the signal being differential.

My adapter is directly transforming the signal in the db9 connector and outputting A B signals out.
You can see it here
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3411

Well the modbus can talk now and don't ask me why using a longer serial cable worked but it did.

I did find another post with someone else using a wj200 and they had to set up using a brain. Another headache to try and resolve and understand. Modbus is a bit above my level of understanding yet.

Now onto the next problem. I had this before with using just a router but it was very random. External Estop Requested on Mach3 would show up on occasion. With the spindle it is more frequent. I assume it is noise but unsure on which cable. I think it may be one of the limit switch cables. All other cables are shielded.

on youtube are some samples of brains use. and the mach3 page have some videos too.
http://www.machsupport.com/videos.php
its a logical program.
i have made a modbus controller for the mach3 to me looks better than lpt port that i use only for the motors drivers.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N...0/DSC00932.JPG

Pete, the E-stop issue is definitely VFD noise. The 1st thing I'll do is to inspect if your star ground is implemented correctly.
2nd step is to buy plenty of snap on ferrite; snap on all the VFD related cables... you may need to snap more than one in each cable.
Or, change all the VFD cable to shielded cables...
Lastly, use RFI EMI line filter on your supply line to the VFD.

...also change the debounce time of your system to something a little higher.
It's in Mach under Config, General Logic Configuration, (upper right corner of page)

I have ordered snap on ferrite cores plus zero phase reactors for the incoming and motor leads.

I saw about the debounce in other forums. It sounded from the posts that it was mostly for startup noise problems. I will check it out now.

I had one machine #28, that required an isolation transformer between the VFD and Mains to completely eliminate my noise issues.

Chasing your issue can be troublesome. Keep at it.

While I am waiting for the zero phase reactors to arrive Monday. First and foremost, Thank you to all you Veterans. Getting hold of Hitachi a second time is almost impossible it seems. From other posts I have read, the WJ200 only likes hex. The book says it can accept words but lack of information is the item here. I am trying hard to grasp this but I feel wanting. Is there anything anywhere about the settings of modbus with mach with a better explanation of how and why it works? Any links and advise would be appreciated. I have googled myself sick already.

here you go,
http://www.homanndesigns.com/pdfs/Us...with_Mach3.pdf
#ps, Brain included. :D

Thanks Ken. I read that before and it did not stick but this time it made more sense.

I went through all the grounding and for just in case I even grounded the common of the 24VDC. No help. Tried to increase the debounce and it seems to help a little. I even pulled the miniature relays that work with the alarm for water flow and work with my timer to allow the dust collector to stay on for 20 minutes after the spindle stops running. Still External Estop Requested.

I did find a brain for the WJ200 posted on MachSupport. After looking at it and modifying it to work with my machine, I finally can send the correct frequency to the VFD. Will post the brain and screenshots later.

I was looking a line reactors and came across an interesting article on practicalmachinist.com. The short of it was one guy made a filter with nothing but iron pipe. Crude but it worked then later in the article another post said to use a transformer core and wrap your incoming leads around it four times. Well I had a bad xfmr so I tried it. Amazingly it did help so this give me hope that the Zero Phase reactors on the supply and the motor leads will reduces my noise significantly. With just the core on the supply I have found that the lowest I can run is 14000 rpm. Anything lower will cause the annoying External Estop Requested.

The debounce is my concern. I did not increase it much but I have read it can mess with you limit switches. Is this true?

how much is much? Is your debounce setting like 1000 or 10000?

If you OEM switches are wired and working then you will be able to test this. (that's the programed 1000 and 1001 codes to resolve your hard buttons to Mach 3 interface)

What you will find is the higher the debounce the longer button push required on the green - start or yellow - feedhold buttons. If your debounce is to high...it might take a 2 second push-and-hold to get that command to be resolved. It's a happy medium, but in reality, it should be set as low as possible and keep the fault at bay.

Also, if you have proximity switches, this is a very usual place to pick up interference too. I found that my z proximity switch was the noisy antennae. Once I isolated that circuit, the e-stop issue for me went away on machine #28.

I will have to try and break down where the problem is. Noise can be hard to follow. I will need to get the zero phase reactors installed first. I had to change the carrier freq to the motor. Motor running smooth now but this adds noise. I feel like I am in a never ending cycle. My debounce originally was 0. It is now 100. If memory serves me correctly, what I read was about prox switches not working and the machine hitting the hard stops because the debounce was high. I think it was on cnczone not that it matters.

Debounce at 200 I can run 8000rpm

Odd....double the debounce, 1/2 the RPM achieved. So, what freq is 8000 and 140000 respectively on your VFD?

Sean,
132 Hz is 8000 and 233 Hz is 14000. Sorry I did not get to post an update last night. Spindle ran for 25 minutes until it faulted. I have also ordered a different cable made for VFD applications. The one I have is double insulated but with braid only so I ordered LAPP cable that is braided with shield and drain. I would like to get the debounce back under down closer to zero. The carrier freq was increased because of audible motor noise. Had to increase to 5kHz to smooth out motor as I mentioned in a earlier post. This will ultimately change when the new cable is installed. I was trying to find where the noise was most prominent, the supply or the motor leads. Cable coming from Allied. Have checked local vendors and they all said the best price was from Allied as they could only get in a larger quantity than I needed. I was hoping that the braid only would be sufficient but I need a good base to start the troubleshooting with now.

The noise is generated at the motor lead, in a poorly designed VFD, the supply lead will pass the EMI/RFI noise to the mains. Form the mains, will contaminate everything that are connected to it. but if you have you VFD power lead separated from the control panel & PC mains, you don't need the "reactor" Which I call EMI/RFI filter. this filter is no rocket science, its basically 1 or 2 coils + a few capacitors.

Ken,
I know we experience the effects of noise where I work at. All our machines in one room have woods vfds. They affect a high speed overhead door that is 20 feet from the closest press.

Understood about the EMI/RFI filter, that is my next step if these steps do not work. I do not think I will have to go that far. The problem will not allude me forever and will rear its ugly face. I just need a solid base. The drive is a Hitachi WJ200. It is mounted separate from the panel in its own enclosure that is vented. The power does come from the machine control panel. The problem here is time. At work everything is there you find and fix the problem because of stock supplies. Here at home, it is purchase, wait, wait, receive, try, troubleshoot, evaluate, order more parts,.... Vicious cycle.

Well I was looking for ground issues. Was reading cnccookbook about possible solutions. It was mentioning opto-isolated circuits. The board I have is but I thought I would review the manual anyway. Well found some possible problems, did not have the gecko power supply tied to ground but the one I never saw before was to not have the parallel port metal of the connector to touch the enclosure metal but needs to be isolated on a non conductive surface. Correcting these tomorrow.

Went over the grounds, made isolation plate for db25 connectors, grounded gecko power supply, installed zero phase reactors from Automation Direct. Ran spindle for 2 hours yesterday at 8000rpm with debounce at 20 (800µs) with no problems. Tied in GS1 and GS2 safety circuit for tool change. Have been running test programs today to see the lowest I can set the debounce. 5(200µs) no problems but 1(40µs) will not, get limit switch triggered on spindle stop. Trying 3 now. Will have new VFD cable tomorrow to add additional shielding. Screenshots to follow. Will try to upload a lot of pictures but may run out of allotment.

Found the information for the brain and modbus here at Mach Support Forum. Using a serial 232 to 484 converter as recommended by Danilo from ebay.

The VFD enclosure I used a shell of an industrial computer. It allows for free air flow while protecting fingers from getting into high voltage areas. The bottom had two 12 VDC fans, I removed them and have 2 24VDC fans to place in there if the VFD gets too hot. The cover is clear polycarbonate with an access hole to the keypad. The emergency stop is wired into 3 and 4 with the middle set of switches above the terminal set to on for the Safety Function that is built into the drive to work. The wiring is source logic, when the current is broken to GS1(3) and GS2(4) the VFD shuts down the output to the motor safely to protect the drive from damage. It will not run even if a signal from modbus or other is present, however if you send a run command and then release the estop it will turn immediately accelerate if it is in run. I am using it for tool change safety since I have to manually change tools. Both the supply feeds and the motor leads are wrapped around the Zero Phase Reactors I got from Automation Direct. I also used 5mm snap on ferrites on the motor leads and ferrites removed from pc cables on the supply feeds in both the vfd enclosure and the main panel.

The wiring for the top of the spindle was a bit of a pain. There are 4 pins and 1-3 are used and 4 is not used, in fact, 4 is not even wired, not even to ground. I had to split the cable insulation up farther and snake out the ground through the braiding and re-wrap the foam protective layer and the foil shielding. I then pulled the braid down and over the clamp for contact. Hitachi for some reason wants the braid grounded on both ends. This is something new to me since I was always taught to only ground one end of any shielding material. The bottom picture is just to see it. I picked up the leds from ledwholesalers for $6 and they work with 24VDC the color index is 5500 and they are bright. So bright that recording a video with them on is almost impossible but as for you seeing while is cutting, it is perfect.

The final setting of the Mach3 debounce was 4 (160µs). After multiple tests this is the lowest I can go. I have run test programs (dry runs) at every speed from 8000rpm up to 24000rpm.

The tank is a stainless steel with a clear polycarbonate top. The flow sensor is on the return. You can get them on ebay for $150.00 or less but new are much more. It is controlling a miniature relay wired to an alarm. When the flow gets below the preset, the alarm goes off. It is a Mallory Sonalert that is 120VAC. The flow switch does not have any interaction with Mach3 as many of you recommended. Thanks for all you input on that. It just makes its annoying sound momentary when the power is first turned on. The pump I used was a Tramm-Rio 1100. I am using distilled water currently. I spent many days talking with different chemical representatives and waste water personnel. All of the discussions made my head hurt. I learned the best coolant next to water is mineral oil. Will not grow bacteria and has a good thermal conductivity. But with the application as it is and the special hose needed for it, I decided against it. From what I was told, water in its purest form is a great thermal conductor but the additives from antifreeze and other coolant mixtures will lower the thermal conductivity. I did not see that as a problem but was more concern with microorganism growth that will occur in any coolant mixture and the handling and disposal of such coolants. In the end, a marine biologist help me decide what to do. Distilled water with regular changes monthly. He said to add a teaspoon of bleach a day or two before the change and just let is circulate for a day. The concentration of bleach is so low it will not be detrimental to the stainless steel and the would clean the water of any organism if any have started to grow. He even said that he did not foresee a problem with just treating the water this way and running longer but it was up to me. This way I do not have to worry about containment if a spill occurred and the water can be discharged down any drain and not need a special holding container and disposal concerns. The tank holds 7 gallons of water. $5.00 per month.

The other picture is what I did to get rid of my ground loop. I made a isolation plate out of nylon mounted in between the panel and the db25 connectors mounting plate.

A lot of the liquid cooling computer people put a piece of silver coil in their cooling loops. It will kill off the bugs that can grow in the water. http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11...oir_Strip.html

I've also see people just use real silver coins, not that plated crap we call money now, but the old style Susan b's.

WOW! That's extensive work put into the spindle coolant & VFD enclosure compare to what I have.
Thanks for sharing.
I would suggest empty a small 50ml bottle food colour into the coolant, help a lot in enhancing visual impact.
AFAIK, copper is also a good biocide.

Now back to figuring out my previous problem of the lines not equally spaced. I have noticed it first on the diagonal photovcarve but now I see it does do it on the standard x move then y move. y+ movement is moves less after an x+ movement but moves more when a x- movement has been completed. I also noticed that on 3d the roughing pass is larger than the finish pass. I saw this at Vectric Forum.

Could it be a setting in mach3 config that is causing this? Any Mach3 users wish to throw me some knowledge it would be appreciated.

what kernel speed in mach do you use? on some computers anything above 25khz would give results like you described

Danilo,
Interesting you mentioned kernal speed. Made me look back over my notes. I was running 25k but for my setup the excel sheet with calculations on it say I should be at least 36.7k. In the beginning I had problems with the original computer not pulsing correctly so I switched to a new one. I never tried setting the kernel back up. I ran a driver test and it says it can run 45k. I think I should increase to that and tune my motors again.

A lot I have read recently says to set the CV setting to >85° for better control of 3d work. Is this advisable? Also to have the Z axis motor set to half the speed of the X and Y motors. I have notices that if the Z speed is higher, I get multiple shadings of the 3d image about an inch out. Still trying to understand it.

Pete

Do you have links to the threads that talk about the kernal speed? Could you share?

The other controls for CV are important.... look ahead and the degree. I would also like to look at the threads you are looking at.

I recently increased my motor speed but I have not retuned. I will do that again. That is a good idea.

Thanks

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...req+calculator

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attac...0&d=1207125382

As far as tuning, it is mentioned in the Mach3 Install Manual

http://www.machsupport.com/docs/Mach...all_Config.pdf

Nils, a lot of the threads I saw were at vectrics forum. There are also mentions at cnc zone, sawcreekmill and others. Most of the research was done on another computer that I will not access to for 2 weeks. I was searching for mach3 cv settings toolpath and other key words on google. Sorry I can not be more help on that but it was really easy to find information about cv and roughing and finish passes. I know most said to make sure all the feedrates were that same for the 3d bits and the z axis should be at have the speed of the other axis. I do not quite understand this but I will try it.

Pete,

I am relooking at CV, Debounce and other issues to insure that I have my machine tuned correctly.

I have my Z set at 150 and more recently set my x, y at 600. I have always had my Z at 150.

Thanks for the info.

I have been chasing this and do not know where to find the solution so I am hoping that maybe one of you can assist me. The roughing toolpath is always a little larger than the finish toolpath even though they are both off of the same oval vector. Also there is profile shading (for lack of correct terminology). The machine I use has steppers, the velocity of the x and y are 500 and accel is 50 and the z is 200 and accell is 45. I have read ahead 200 lines and stop cv on getter than 75°. I do not think it is missing steps because I can start stop rehome and resume at a line number and it will be right were it stopped. I can get the roughing pass to be within the finish path if I put in a negative boundry vector offset but I don't think that is correct. The multiple profile effect that is happening on the finish toolpath I have not idea what to look at. This was cut at 30 ipm. This happens on every piece of 3d I cut. V carve is not affected. I have read multiple posts at other sites and was looking for some insight into how to correct this.

Run the code in exact stop and if the problem goes away it is probably the CV settings.

This link is ok.
http://www.machsupport.com/documentation.php has a doc on CV.
Might help.

Ross