Hi Red

Not exactly sure what your last last few lines were about, but once you move the machine, the settings tab in Mach3 (Alt 6) will allow you to do the final calibration the axis's.
Unless you have a dial indicator, longer moves like 2 meters for the X axis and 1 meter for the Y axis will give you a far more accurate "averaged correction" than smaller moves.

The debate on which operating system is "best" has no end but this screenshot from the Artsoft site clearly sets out what is supported and what is not.

Attachment 11943

Regards
Ross

Forget about microns (thou of mm). Even top engineering shops working with heavy CNC steel mills and lathes generally only talk in hundredths of millimeters and thousandths of inches. For the MM, you can consider yourself lucky if you see hundredths of mm (0.01mm) - but you should expect to see twentieths (0.05)

Gerald,
Since I was aiming for 1/32" accuracy (because this is what craftsmen achieve in the surf industry), I'm more than happy with how things are shaping up. Especially given my complete inexperience with almost all of the skills required for the build.

Ross,
I'd assumed that partial dissembly and moving the machine might result in things not being exactly the same as before when I put it back together, but I guess you're right - I will only have to so a software recalibration.
Good idea, I'll calibrate using longer moves.

Maybe it's not Mach 3/ Win 7 - maybe it's me not understanding how the software should work. I'm having trouble <ref all home> to a machine co-ordinate zero without overtravel in the hundreds and cannot zero axes without a software restart. I'm following up on the Mach 3 forum.

Hi Red

When the machine is moved the normal levelling and squaring will be required, the steps per will remain the same then a little software calibration after the move and your away.

The machine coordinates are set once the machine is homed to X0 Y0 Z0, this can be done with proximity switches or manually jogged to the limits.
Note the Z is homed to the top of the stroke not to the table top. Once the machine is homed you can press ref all, but only once as it is now "homed".
Put another way you have now defined the machines travel extents and pressing ref all again once the gantry has moved will muck up the machine coordinate system.

After homing the machine you then need to define the work coordinates.
Jog to the 0, 0 ,0 position of the job on the table and then press the individual X Y and Z buttons once everything is where you want it.
These are the individual green buttons on the right of the ref all button in Mach3. See attached.
Attachment 11944

You can toggle between the Machine coordinate system and the work coordinate system in Mach3 by pressing the Machine Coordinates button.

Machine Coordinates - Button lights surrounded by a red line when in machine coordinates.
Attachment 11945

Work Coordinates
Attachment 11946

After the machine is set up pressing the Go To Zero button will return the machine to the 0, 0, 0 position of the work coordinate system you set up second in the sequence.

Regards
Ross

Thanks Ross,
I appreciate the time you took to post the screen shots.
That's the way I thought things work.
This is the thing that does not work. The zero buttons have no effect.
Also, when I restart with the machine manually at zero and the software at zero, and then jog off and "goto zero" I get massive overtravel (to the max value when done off line). I've tried adjusting debounce values (/config/general/[top right])to no avail.
Software?

Hi Red - sounds frustrating to say the least.

I would download a new copy of Mach3 from the website, uninstall the existing software, restart then reinstall it to the controller PC as a first point.

As Mach has soooo many settings it is hard to second guess what is happening (although others might be more informed than me).
I assume the machine jogs in the correct direction etc so why not try using my mill xml file (attached)) on the new Mach install.

Things to be mindful of are my machine size of 2500 x 1300 and I also run Matty Zee's spindle plugin so untick it in config, plugin config if it shows up.
See what happens and just be ready with the Estop button !!

Copy your existing xml files in the root of the Mach3 install directory somewhere safe before you start any reconfiguration.

Attachment 11947

Regards
Ross

I would do this setup. Get the machine all zeroed and drive the machine off to wherever on the table. Drive it around a bit even to see if it acts up. Then un hook all the springs and run the "go to home" step after pulling the motors off the rack so it will not move the machine. Repeat this with one motor disconected at a time to see if their may be one of your motor wires acting up.

Also check your shielding for the motors to make sure only one end is grounded. Another thing to try is move the wires around inside your cable tray.
You may be getting cross talk somewhere. What wire did you use for your motors?

Like Ross said, reload MACH3 first. Never hurts to do that.

...I haven't done a lot of in depth reading on this, but.
have you checked:
- that your table coordinates are set correctly. (that the 0,0 in Mach matches your table)
- Orientation of x and y is correct in Mach with relation to table.
- your positive and negative relationships for each access are correct?

Will think about this more when I get to the office shortly.

Sean

Thanks, guys. Downloaded an updated version of Mach 3. Installed it and ran off my old xml. Things seem to work the way they should now. I can offset the work co-ordinates, zero and the machine will cut in the correct area. Then I can move the work area (offsets) and re-zero, which I could not do before. There is still an issue homing, but I think this is my settings not the software. Gotta get those home and limit proxies working tonight to stop those crashes.

Ross, thanks for sharing your xml. I'll start it, run though the config to compare and run it offline then online to see what happens. It will help me see where I'm going wrong with homing.

Mike, good idea about unhooking the springs to check homing. Better than hovering over the <esc> key!
I used a 4 core copper shielded wire for all my wiring. had to pull an extra wire or two, but it ensured that my motors were separate from switches. We'll see if there are lost steps when I get the router mounted.

Sean, thanks. I'll be picking your brain if I may when I come to loading foam onto the machine, e.g. How long a bit do you use? (because I guess 3D depth of cut is limited by the depth of the bit and width of the spindle). What do you do about dust collection in deep cuts (use long bristle brushes and raise the dust foot when necessary?). So many things to figure out...

Funny. When I went back to read the installation manuals (there are two - one for Mach 3 and an AN-GEN for the PMDX-125 on Mach 3), I read little paragraphs that now make sense to me but didn't before.
When I read forum posts from guys that bought, rather than built machines, I can see that they are asking questions that we as builders and configurators have had to address head-on. Of course there is a ton of sophistication out there on machine operation that I have no hope of following at the moment.

The hammer is down. Deadline of 30 June for first cut is fast approaching. I better get that router mount welded, drilled and bolted in place!

Red,
Dust collection is a bit of "last thought" with really big foam. It's really more of a manual process.
I personally removed the dust foot and let the open 4" inlet just evacuated what it could To remove debris in the cutting area, I directed a small jet of air to keep the cutter clear, then cleaned up the snow storm later via big vac.

Little tip.

I put the machine in a smallish garage type room during heavy foam use and put a very large (4' dia fan) in the rear wall with a scrim, then filter (cheese cloth like material) to catch all the airborn foam. It worked like a huge wind tunnel. Pretty important, due to some foam is toxic while cutting, thus A LOT of fresh air was important for safety.

A software gremlin hey.
Great news on another hurdle overcome.

Regards
Ross

Well it took a while, but I finally got homing working. Mike, I did as you suggested and dropped one gantry motor (the A motor) and worked through all the settings step by step. I got both the X and A motors turning in opposite directions when homing (which is what they need to do), but when i reassembled that awful grinding ensued.

I was pulling my hair out, but eventually checked Motor Tuning. The A motor steps, speed and acceleration were significantly different from the X. This is not a problem for jogging or cutting because of slaving, I guess.
I copied the settings from the X motor tuning to the A and magically "ref all home" was working. My guess is that the slaving applies for jogging and cutting, but not for homing. This fits in with the description elsewhere on this site of how homing works.

MechMate logo dxfs?
 

Time has come to declare this machine worthy of the name. There are still a few things to do (I'm sure it will never end!) and I have to film it cutting the Roadrunner.tap to get a number. I'll do this as time permits over the next couple of weeks. I want to cut a logo out of vinyl. I haven't found images for the MechMate logo. Can someone point me to them if they exist?

They are somewhere in this jungle, but all you need is to take the Lasercut DXF file. and CUT it out of the bottom right hand side of the lable page.
Good luck

Attachment 12071

Dankie, Kobus

Plesier, I only want to see you earn that serial nr.

Mach 3 and homing settings of interest to MM users
 

Firstly a reply to Kobus: It's coming along. Just slowly. A couple of hours a week are not conducive to getting things going.

Now here's something I learned over in the Mach 3 support forum. It's a response from the moderator to my queries similar to #172 above (it also made me feel a bit less stupid about the dramas I'd been having):

Hi Red

Nicely sorted, I "slavishly" rechecked my slaved drive setting every time I modified anything.
It is easy to see how the two sets of numbers might stray after a bit of fiddling.

Hope you got into some of that swell from the southern ocean weather bomb.
Here in QLD we just watched the vids and pics of you guys getting plenty!!
Tassie was insane / scary - freely admitting I'm too old for that power.

At the peak of the swell a mate got smashed at the Queenscliff Bombie on the Sydney Northern beaches by a rogue set.
Hmm that's power, this was not run over by a car as it might seem.
Attachment 12080

Now you have the beast (just) running, I would like to ask you to share your hold down solution for your blanks as you sort through it.
Call me lazy but I have been in no hurry to do this myself as it has only been a small part of my motivation in the MM build.
Regardless I will be very disappointed if my MM does not shape me a board or two for my personal use over the longer term.

Regards
Ross

Are you asking how to hold down the foam billets and blanks on the spoil board surface for cutting?
Are you doing 1 side or 2 sided registered 3d cutting (thus, flipping the cut part to machine the other side too?)

Hi Sean

The "blanks" as we refer to them as are already pre blown into a roughly surfboard shape.
This makes them curvy to start with and way more difficult to deal with than a block of material might be.
The cutting is done in two stages, bottom first then flipped to cut the top.

The issues are firstly registration of the blank and secondly how it is actually secured.
I have seen many takes on how it is done from clamping/ spiking of the center line wooden stringer to vacuum pods.
Typically the blanks are registered nose and tail and held with two vacuum pods across the center of the board to limit the flex as the cutter runs up and down the blank.

I'm fishing on this one, you know it goes like this - something easy, something cheep , something that works and maybe avoiding a vacuum set up.
Red has been around on this one so I'm thinking he might have some good ideas.

I'm guessing Red will use a software app called BoardCAD to produce the models for the blanks, the shapes themselves and the Gcode to cut both the top and bottom.
For your reference if you are interested ...
Software - http://www.boardcad.com/news.php
Blank - http://www.shapers.com.au/products/6...ish-Blank.html

Regards
Ross

Ross, a random thought:

Could you also pre-blow a set of blocks that support the blank?

Hi Brad

Short answer - Yes for a specific design.
Long answer - each board can be quite different so generally the set up needs to be flexible enough to accommodate these different designs.

Here is one idea that uses a flat bed -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMGTEhspZ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvnl-R5Pkjg

Here is an example of too little support or excessive plunge rate - note the tail flex on contact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8viItUSoKx8

Regards
Ross

Hi Ross,
The WitchCraft videos are impressive. A whole separate control system for the vaccuum suckers. That's one looong bit they use to cut the outline.

No surfing for me. Bit busy at present and baby is too cute, so I prefer to hang with him than drive 2 hours on a cold day to get hammered in freezing water. Also I'm trying to get the MM done.

My intention has always been to cut from a block of foam leaving tabs, then flipping the block. I believe this will be the easiest for hold-down (clamp the edges that do not get cut) and for registration (use the block edges). Of course it's slower because of all the excess material. I've had boards done this way on a big 4 axis machine (5 boards at a time!) and it worked well. Of course, EPS only, so I don't have to worry about varying density of the blank.

My longer-term solution to cutting too much foam will be to use the hot wire cutter I have to cut bottom curve and thickness (like the Witchcraft people appear to do), but leaving the rectangular outline. Then support the curve on rocker tables (one for the top and one for the bottom) to limit flex during cutting (excessive use of tabs could also be an option).

If all pans out well, then my intention is to use vaccuum hold-down on EPS rocker beds. I only use one rocker on anything 5'10"-6'2", with slight tail kick variations.

My boards are stringerless. I use vaccuumed-on veneer to hold the rocker shape, and do this on a rocker table (I see the Witchcraft people put the bottom veneer on before cutting the deck), so I may decide that some distortion during cutting is acceptable, and so review how I do things.

I'm open to advice. Sean, feel free to chip in.

:)Hi Red

Family first is always the best policy, the surf will come again.
Thanks for your response and interesting that you use the veneer to hold the rocker.

If I ever get on with it and do some shaping on my machine, I will post up what happens.
Will probably just tear the glass off some old boards and cut them down progressively until they are just dust in the extractor as a practice.

Other projects need to be finished before any shaping gets a run on my machine, its a long term goal for me but a goal none the less.
Only time will tell if I deliver on that one :). So many projects so little time.

Regards
Ross

Red,
My thoughts on you application are this:
If your working with a rectangular billet, then tabs and registration blocks on the table are a fine solution. The down side is you use "just a little" more material, but the extra mass=stability in size pending your number of tabs and placement.

If your going to use the "preformed" blanks, then a cheap solution is make a "negative mold" that the board of choice fits in. Since your table size is large enough, the left side is for top cutting, the right for bottom cutting. Vac-holddown could be as easy as a shopvac and a few holes in the "negative" foam block and your holding everything down. The tool path for the hold down will be the same as the board, so registration will be spot on. If you have a high volume part that will be cut frequently, then the hold down negative part could be out of plywood, plastic or anything really. 3d is fun, you just have to think about the part and "z" change for clearance of tool bit vs. gantry height.

(tip and trick)
If you smartly build the hold down negative part, you can put "side draft" tunnels down the starboard and port sides of the blank as dust collection. It doesn't really pay off if your doing a few parts a day, but if your doing a hundred, then in makes sense!

Ross,
I'm the same - too many projects! Cutting a few boards is just the start.

Sean,
Thanks. I hadn't thought of using each side of the machine for a separate purpose. My 'rocker table" is the 'negative" you recommend. If I do a good job with the hot wire, then I will end up with a positive and a negative. Nice idea about the holes through for vac hold-down. I had not considered this. And thanks for the tip on dust collection. You've got me thinking.

Cut a few roadrunners this weekend. Trying to figure out feed rates and bit size so I don't have strings on the top surface (should I surface the wood first?).
Still struggling with getting Z zero right. Time for a touch plate, I think. This may be a circuit involving a bulb, battery and crocodile clip, but I'll do a bit more research.

Red, can you help me? remember where you got these feet?? thanks!
Francis

I know where he got them :) But I think Red has some spares

Cool I am interested...

Hi Francis,
Apologies for the slow response. I have no more feet.
I got feet from Mike MetalHead. No issues shipping from the U.S. and the price is right. I also got bearing supports from Mike, so you might consider those at the same time.
Good building.
Regards
Red

Quick update
 

I had a few Mach 3 crashes. Traced them to continued residence of the trial version on my machine and use of that version's loader to start the licensed version (I think). Some uninstalling and installing and a few restarts later and redirecting Mach 3 to the correct .xml config file and things are running smooth again.

I'll get some decals cut, and post the Roadrunner cut to prove it works.

MM in a bucket
 

The Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of MM construction.
I swept my drill shavings into a bucket. This is how much accumulated during the build...
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...Minabucket.jpg

And here's the reason I've been so slow getting the decals on the machine and finishing the workshop so that I can move it in:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o..._eats_spag.jpg

Help needed on sourcing foam router bit and other stuff
 

I've been spending time getting the tin shed garage into some sort of shape and nailing carpet to the walls for soundproofing. We'll have to see how that works out. Can't be worse than current practice of running machine in the open air.

Touched up a few things on the machine like paint scratches and more permanent mounts for the proxy detectors.
I have to cut a sign for the MM. and then shoot a film of it cutting.
The wheels are in place, so now it's a question of rolling the machine into it's more new home that does not involve blocking the view out of the kitchen window.

My gas shock can't lift the router, but does "help". Is this likely to be a problem over time? The motor lifts the Z without problem, but I don't want to overwork the motor (mind you, the same spec motor drives the Y-car).

I've done a bit of looking around and only found one supplier of these kinds of bits for cutting polystyrene foam. They are rhino and wounded, judged by the way they charge. Anyone recommend a source or alternate?
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...mrouterbit.jpg
CUTTER HEAD DIMENSIONS: 1.19" (31mm) Diameter X 2.83" (72mm) Length.
RADIUS: 0.325" (8.25mm)
SHAFT/SHANK DIMENSIONS: 1/2" Diameter X 1.5" (38.1mm) Length

PS I have checked out the Frog3D range, but their bits are small and conventional.

Red

As always the MM site is a treasure trove of information, there's been some discussion on this in the past, have a look here, it's old so maybe not much help but a starting point.

Thanks, Jed. Nice to see you still come around and help us beginners. I see Oliver.com have carbide burrs, but they seem limited to smaller sizes. Still, at $15 vs $300, I might give one a try.

As smreish suggested try using long drill bit for foam, just sharpen it for a radius, it works really well

Danilo....I told you! :)

You will find that if you use the wood ONLY type twist bit with a "full length" twist, it works best.
I also found, that if I got above 12#/ft3 foam, it was not so pretty. But on the lighter standard foam density, just fine.

Restarted the machine after a layoff of a few months. Had to learn to drive all over again.
Here it is, still outside the kitchen. Roadrunner video to follow.http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...29_11_2011.jpg

Mike - I looked up P-Sketty and got some reference to accents, dancing cats and a place in England. I'm missing something?

I have 2m of cable chain left over. It's large (same as the pic above), does sag a bit over 1.5m, but it's doing the job.

Ha Ha :D - P-Sketty is what us down south (US anyway) boys call pasta !!! Spaghetti