Hi Paika

I am farther to be specialist but if your MM is going exclusively to cut and grove

aluminum composite panels. Configure the two Z axis motors as the X axis motors.

While one runs CW the other runs CCW so when one spidle goes up the other goes down.

I personally advised Pajka to go with dual Z, dual spindle setup.
As it can be operated by a simple button and offset in Mach3. And I kindly ask some of the members not to give advises like this so fast without previous knowledge , oooh what a mistake, sell the second spindle etc...

If you ever get a chance to see work with alubond, you will soon see what a pain it is to constantly change bits! It cuts relatively fast, first all the V groves for bending are cut, then cut out with 4mm endmill. So think of a daily routine of cutting 15-20 boards 1.25x4m. That equals to 30-40 toolchanges, each one can't be done lets say under a minute as you have to unscrew the nut, put the new one, tighten and zero the Z. So what are you doing is wasting around 40mins everyday (maybe even count in collets and nut wear a bit).
Alubond cutting usualy equals to minimum of 15eur a board (3eur per sq.meter) and around 30eur per hour in Serbia. So you lose at least 20eur every production day on toolchanges.

After a month that equates to minimum of 400 eur, so it nearly PAYS off a spindle and vfd in a month. Not everyone here is for the hobby, I learned in last two years a lot and try to give a best possible advice to my friends and other. For alubond processing, dual Z setup is a best and cheapest toolchanger as you only need two bits.

In the end, here is one cnc machine made specially for alubond panels:
http://www.kontakt.co.rs/alu.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ZGgB8HVnVzQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=l6YGp5PXCg8

p.s. when the machine gets operational I will post about usage of dual Z here in forum and a video.

I will be interested to read about dual Z management. Realy.

I feel confident Paika have you by his side to help him.
There's all the chances to succeed now.
No need to any other advice. It's OK. ;)

It's true I have no experience on small shops business.
And I will probably never have any.
I just work for the third european POS manufacturer,
We transform 15 tons of steel and various materials each year, glass, plastic, wood...
All our robots have tool changers (except the laser cutters and the tube benders), and the tool changing is realy fast.
DIY changers can be fast too. There's many examples. It's just what I wana say.

P.S. My MechMate will not be for hobby. Just for prototyping. That can bring money too. ;)

From what I have read, tool changers can be costly to the DIY guy. Spindles that have tool change capability are expensive. I think that the dual Z setup will be less costly in the long run.

If accuracy of below 0.05mm is what you are after, a ATC is the way to go.
Not only an tool changing capable spindle is expensive to buy, it is also expensive to maintain. for one, you need to purchase a battery of chuck heads.... & $$$ keep clicking...
Dual spindle set up is one economical way to have 2 bit changing capability in a hurry. The only draw back is accuracy. but than again, do you seriously need 0.1mm precision for you jobs??? Even metal machine center is happy with +/- .1mm tolerance in mass production condition.

Ok I will bite. For the dual Z axis management would it be as simple as modding one post proccessor. Turn the Z axis commands in to A axis commands and add an offset like g55 at the beginning? Only thing you would have to worry about in my mind is picking the right Post Processor for the tool size.

I have no experience but my intrest is peaked.

I am certain that the CAM software has a way to do this (Lazy Cam at the time did not), personally, when I used my second axis it was dedicated for a single tool purpose. What this means is I edited the GCode directly in the Mach 3 window to use the alternate A or B axis for the Z post processing. IT was really easy to find in the code, because I would allow for the code window in Mach to prompt for manual tool change - and edit on the fly if small parts, or change the whole program and save in the text file. Truly, a really large file, that cut out an entire cabinet set, took about 15 minutes to edit in the text window.

OR - later in the double z evolution, I changed out the z-slide gas strut for a small bore air cylinder with hard stops and triggered via the BOB relay for up/down cycle only for drilling. This made the cycle rate very fast for drilling. This was used as a drilling fixture (like a 5mm drill pins for shelving with a real drill bit in the second spindle/router/drill motor)

Painting and assembling
 

Finished belt reductions,painted y car,some work on stop blocks

Many thanks to danilo for reduction plates files!

Preparing for painting

Y car painted

Reached and the machine for drilling but after all the operations that I needed for.

Just to say that I am having great time in Macedonia helping Angelko (Pajka) in wiring and Mechmate assembly. This is what we have done in past few days.

Tomorrow we expect to get some movement and fine tune the machine.

Here are some pictures, more to come when we are finished !

http://cnc.rs/mechmate/makedonija/IM...20(Medium).JPG

http://cnc.rs/mechmate/makedonija/IM...20(Medium).JPG

http://cnc.rs/mechmate/makedonija/IM...20(Medium).JPG

Here is the video of the machine in action !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epHduC92NlY

Camera ... Sound ... Chips fly !



http://cnc.rs/mechmate/makedonija/IM...20(Medium).JPG


http://cnc.rs/mechmate/makedonija/IM...20(Medium).JPG

:D :o

Честитки !!!!

Well done boys!
That is some a__ kicking!
Great news after hot, hell hot vacation!

Поздрав Данило, со среќа Пајка.

Hi Pajka.

Nice to see your machine in action

How did yow finally solve the twin Z axis management.

Congratulations Pajka and Danilo.

Your build logic for the 2 spindle Z axis is faultless for the specialised alubond processing.
It also provides a degree of double redundancy if a spindle or VFD was to fail.

The control box is perfect with plenty of space.
If I had my time over I would use something just like it. Thanks for the video too.

Regards
Ross

Congrats!
That is a beautiful machine you built.
Any thoughts on duct collection?

Twin Z is managed by Mach3 directly from software. Also the Aspire post-processor had to be altered to some degree to call certain Mach macros on start and end to revert from one or another Z.

When tool 2 is called it swaps Z and B axis apply the XY offsets and goes to work.

Ken, dust collection will be solved very soon as I gave some advice to Pajka how to mount it.
Ross, the control box is 800x800 but far from plenty of space. Drives had to be stacked pretty close (but we have a 120mm 220V AC fan directly on them so no problems)
And the two VFDs are right next to each other. Its all packed so a little more room would be nice.
Pajka wanted real industrial look of the inside so we used big channels and some nice big relays :) , switches and contactors for all and lights outside the box.

Another proof that control panel is never big enough... even with a 800x800 box is not big enough! LOL!!!:cool:

THAT is very cool.
Thanks for the video.
I happen to have all the necessary components for a dual Z laying around....
An air drill for shelf pin holes would be the bomb.
I'm curious about dust collection as well.

A very clever solution, with 2 bits you can do most of the complicated things simulating an auto tool change but without the cost which is far higher and maybe also less fast.
Are you using Mach3 with two break out boards ? ( I see you are not using Gecko's drives)
ciao
Sergio

Yes Mach3 and two bob's so we can have more IO pins.

The drives are digital Leadshine drives DM856, work flawless, motors spin smooth and very silent.

Could not avoid to see the R2D2 in the picture. Now I know why it is build so fast and so precise!!!

C3P0 was just around the corner :)

It's a shop vac they used but will be replaced with a cyclone. Pajka needs all the help he can get so we are daily in contact.

I hope to travel to Macedonia once again this year to speed up their learning curve.

this looks better
 

works like a clock

Very nice! - looks very professional.

SOOOOO spacious!!!

What was the total cost overall?

wow,, you even have room for a toilet con that cabinet. nice work.

well Pajka,

there months since you build the two mouthed monster

Please show us some of your work, and share some experience.

Hi Pajka.....can you tell me how is Deitech 2.2kw spindel performinging

I am very pleased with their work.I think they are great for the money I paid for them.

I amon the way to buy one of these from driver-motor.com for 238$ and Vfd for 160$.....how much is your ABB VFd

2 pieces 700EUR (Made in Germany).

Did you test the spindel on plywood?

Not yet.

But I have, you can see my work in my thread

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2617

Импресиониран сам , Данило....:))))

done these days after a long break