Okay, I have ordered a Hubbell HBL5666C plug for the 230V 11.5Amp Single Phase motor going to Atlanta. Let's hope the organisers can provide a suitable receptacle - I'll check with them tomorrow. Price of that plug out here: $25 - high because of rarity....

Gerald: Just ask the guys where you are planning to plug it in what amp receptacle, how many leads, and whether their receptacle is twist lock or not and then you can be sure to have the right one. Odds are a Home Depot is close to them (They are everywhere around Atlanta) and you could even make sure you have the right one by checking it out once you are there. The right amp plug will, of course, be determined by the circuit, not the motor. Most light industrial outlets here are 20 amp unless there is a dedicated reason to go higher. Of course the key word is "most".

By the way: I'm about a 10 Hour drive from Atlanta-Comne on down while you're here.

10 hour drive - sure! http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/happy.gif

The plug I ordered here is the only "American" 230V plug that I could find stocked in South Africa. But at least I have a reference point to tell the exhibition organisers what I am bringing. They must have catered for stuff from Europe before, so I am not too worried about it.

Hello Gerald and forum friends.
I moved to a new shop and that was a lot of work that keep me very busy for the last couple month.
Now I am ready to keep working on my project.
I got all my electronics except the cables (I will use normal cables for my "kitchen project" and the G203 "vampire drives that I hope arrive this week.
I all ready got the PK296A1ASG7.2 motors, Piltron transformer 300 VA 2x25 VAC 6amp, PMDX-135 Module, PMDX-122 card, ENSTO Rotary Load Break Disconnect Switch, 3 Pole, 600V, 40ª, and TECO IEC Contactor - 16A, 120VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. Aux and the micelaneas in the list.
The question I have right now is how to install the contactor. I think many people is going to use the TECO IEC Contactor because is in the list you suggested and would be nice to know how to install it to the basic package. As soon I get my office strait out I will post the assemble process of the electronics so it can be cheeked out.
Thanks for your help.
Hugo Carradini
PD. My Web site is working now www.vitrales.com.ve

Welcome back! From the spec sheet:


What is the supply voltage in your country? Single phase? Split phase? Three phase?

Normally 1, 3, 5 is used for incoming mains. 2,4,6 go out. Terminals A1 and A2 are lower down (normally under 13 and 14).

Hello Gereald.
We work with 110 and 220 volts
110 uses a hot line and a neutral line and the 220 uses 2 hot lines and a neutral line.
I am planing in base of 110 volts system .

So Hugo, you can follow the drawing right at the top of this thread. Here are your contactor connections:

Gerald,
After looking at your schematic, I think that pushing the N/O pushbutton is going to be an exercise in futility. If Contactor connector 3 is the connection for the incoming Neutral (as stated above), shouldn't the N/C pushbutton be connected between Contactor connector 3 and the Coil connection A1? That way, when the N/O pushbutton is closed, the coil will receive power from L1 and the coil will also have a complete circuit through the N/C switch to neutal. Also, when the N/O pushbutton is closed, switch terminals 13 and 14 will close and the Contactor will be self-latching. The Contactor will remain turned on until the N/C pushbutton is opened or until the disconnect/breaker feeding power to L1 is opened.

Mike, after re-visiting the circuit, yes, you are right, pushing the NO will not do anything because the Neutral is broken.

But, I'll have to think harder about your suggested solution, because the neutral won't be isolated anymore - it will continue deeper into the circuit via the coil. I have a funny feeling that we are using a double-pole NO pushbutton to start the circuit? (Right now I am packing for 5 days away, 4 days back and then 10 days away again - need to chew on this one carefully....)

PS. I have purchased vBulletin software and will be converting this board so that the start of threads don't go so deep into the archives.

As the first post shows (the faulty diagram):
http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/3347/15112.gif

Gerald,
You're right. A 2-pole, 1-throw N/O Pushbutton could be used to activate the relay. Once the Contactor's coil was activated, the coil would be held in the active state by switch contacts 13 and 14.

Good luck on your trip(s).

Thanks Gerald.
I will be posting photos soon.

Thanks Mike. Off to Oudtshoorn in an hour's time for a little break before the Atlanta visit.

The long drive cleared the head. The Neutral going "permanently" to the coil of the contactor is no problem - there is a big multipole "disconnect" just to the left of the contactor. Follow Mike's "shouldn't the N/C pushbutton be connected between Contactor connector 3 and the Coil connection A1? That way, when the N/O pushbutton is closed, the coil will receive power from L1 and the coil will also have a complete circuit through the N/C switch to neutal. Also, when the N/O pushbutton is closed, switch terminals 13 and 14 will close and the Contactor will be self-latching. The Contactor will remain turned on until the N/C pushbutton is opened or until the disconnect/breaker feeding power to L1 is opened." until I can fix that drawing. Sorry for the slip.

Mike, is this better?:

Gerald,
That looks good.

When the Disconnect is closed, Neutral is connected to the coil and L1 is available to the coil through the N/O switch. When the N/O switch is closed momentarily, the coil is energized and the contactor's auxiliary switch is closed, making the contactor self-latching. At that point L1, N, and L2 are passed through the contactor. When either the Disconnect or any of the N/C switches are opened, even momentarily, the coil loses power and the contactor opens all of it's switches.

Thanks Mike. I still have to draw a "single phase" 230V version for "non-America" and that means the L2-L2-L2 rail at the bottom gets deleted. This is where somebody at some point upstream swops L1 and N around, and I was worried about the L1 getting deep into the circuit (via the coil) by mistake. We don't want a maintenance guy to find 230 V inside the circuit when it is OFF, but that is exactly what the Disconnect is there for.

Where does the BOB E-stop come into the picture from the one push button operator?

Greg

Hi Gerald,

I do industrial controls for a living in the US. I just saw this thread and one thing that jumps off the page at me is the location of the Off/Estops vs the On Pushbutton. The ideal hookup would have L1 - Estops - Off - (On & Seal In Contact in parallel) - Coil - Neutral. The problem with the schematic below is that you can bypass/defeat the Estops simply by holding the On pushbutton in. Or if either the On or Seal In contact welded or if the operator switch broke you could not easily turn it off.

As far as I can see, you also have no need of the L2 line in the US anyway. The only benefit would be requiring it if the 110V router needed more than 20A since that is typically the max rating for a 110V outlet and wiring. The 220V lines can be run in 10 Gauge which is good for 30A per NEC.

Hey, I really admire what you are doing here!

Mike Nash

Mike N, where have you been hiding while we needed you? Welcome!

You are dead right; the E-stops in the latest circuit can be defeated. Not good. Back to the drawing board....

The reasons I added the L2 are:
- Separates the noisy router from the control circuit (in 110V cases)
- Provides expansion/upgrade possibilities for folk wanting to add dust collectors or VFD's for spindles (also makes a progression to 3-phase easier - the right components are already in the box)
- 220 is a respectable voltage that I am more familiar with. :)

Hope I got it right this time. Still prefer a neutral travelling to all the moving parts and next to the low-voltage circuits, rather than a live(hot). I have a bad habit of fiddling on low-voltage circuits forgetting that mains might be nearby:


Have I got it right this time, Mike's N & R ? :o

Gerald,

It looks good to me. L1 latches the contactor on when the N/O pushbutton is momentarily closed. The coil to the contactor stays latched as long as the main disconnect (door switch) is closed AND the N/C switches (E-Stop, limit, etc.) stay closed. L2 becomes active when its switch is closed. The N/C switches are all shielded with a drain wire that connects on one end only to system/chassis/earth ground.

-Mike

Thanks Mike (R).

I am going to be bold and upload a few schematics before the other Mike gets here.

America's:
115V SINGLE PHASE SUPPLY Changed later - do not use this diagram
230V / 115V SPLIT-PHASE SUPPLY Changed later - do not use this diagram

Non-America's
230V SINGLE PHASE SUPPLY Attachment 127 Changed later - do not use this diagram
380V THREE-PHASE SUPPLY Attachment 128 Changed later - do not use this diagram

The missing one is the American 3-phase supply, because I don't know for sure what voltages you speak of there.

Please remember that the title of this thread has always been Mains power wiring for discussion. . . . .
- Mains power is the high voltage stuff that can kill you, and
- for discussion means that there could be mistakes, and that I would really appreciate everyone's input before it becomes the recommended way.

Gerald,

Once these schematics mature and are critiqued by the experts, it might be a good idea to pull them all together and place them in the downloads area. I would keep your disclaimer on each page though. Just a thought.

Marc

Marc, they are intended for the downloads section eventually and have been numbered accordingly. There won't be a disclaimer on those drawings per se because everyone read the user agreement before registering to download, didn't they? ;)

Seriously though, there are a lot of things that can be dangerous when building this beast, and they are not all electrical. My blood ran cold the other day when I saw Kim's photo of a balanced steel beam with a tricycle next to it in his garage. Bandsawing and grinding are two other places of great concern.

Hi Gerald,

The last was better, but at least in the US it is rare to see the neutral being switched and is possibly not to NEC code. It is also much, much easier to trace down open switches when you can put your meter between the wire and any available ground. I doctored your image in the venerable Paint program to show how I would wire it.

I included the fuse because I would prefer to pop a 1A (slo-blo) fuse if a wire shorted rather than blow holes in things waiting on a breaker to trip. Additionally, if the contactor coil shorted it lets out a lot less smoke as the shorts are rarely dead shorts, just partial winding shorts that create a lot of heat and smoke if not fused at a low enough value. Use a slo-blo type fuse due to inrush on the coil.

I also included an optional illuminated pushbutton (could be a separate lamp) to show that power was switched on. It can be helpful when trying to figure out why things won't start.

Keep up the good work!

Mike Nash

The fuse is a good idea, but what sort of package? (Solder to be avoided as far as possible).

Mike,

I'm just trying to understand the circuit. When the on/off pushbutton is closed, don't you have a short on the switch above L1 and below the coil?

Greg

Hi Greg,

The picture is a little unclear mostly because it is shown pictorially. I've put a standard E-Stop type circuit below with an added Off pushbutton. The C1 contact is the "seal in" contact that does indeed close around the On pushbutton to keep the contactor (relay) coil energized.

Thanks Mike,

That helps, but I still don't get the seal in contact. Let me study it tonight and sleep on it. If it doesn't "click" in the morning, I'll ask another question.

Geeez, seal in contacts and short circuits .... you can guess what I'll dream about :)

Greg

OK, I got it. Its a latching circuit. You are using a pushbutton and what keeps the circuits "closed" when the pushbotton is released (rhetorical question). The latching or seal in "leg" of the parellel part of the circuit completes the circuit. So I get my terminology correct, is it a "mini" relay?

Google "seal in" and contact and you come up with a great web site.
www.allaboutcircuits.com

Not too many better ways to spend a Friday night :D

Greg

Until yesterday I had never heard the term "seal in". And then you guys want to trust diagrams that I give you? :eek: :)

Thanks for the pro help Mike. The drawings will be revised. Yup, faultfinding a bunch of series switches on a Live circuit is a lot easier than on a Neutral circuit - I must stop forgetting that the "Disconnect" switch is there for when we want to work on ANY of the electrics/electronics.

A fuseholder terminal block is ideal for the fuse, but bad on the wallet. :( Oops they are priced on bulk batches of 20-50 pieces. Folk have mentioned that FactoryMation does sell smaller quantities.

These look a LOT better on price! :) Singles

Gerald,

Better check the spec's a little closer. Dang, you just posted that one was bulk and the other was single. Your good.

I did notice, that the factormation "store" had better ratings (current/volts).

Greg

Greg, at the current or voltage level we are talking of here, the quality is not critical. Can buy purely on convenience/price.

Agreed. But, for a newbie like myself, the factorymation site had better spec sheets.

Please don't ask what I'll do with the other 19 parts :)

Have a good evening. There is a good ball game on the "xm".

Greg

I think if you order FactoryMation by e-mail (not online) you can get smaller quantities.

(It is 6.36am here - the evening is long gone!)

Here we go again :) - extracted from this proposal: Attachment 133

The L is fine. It simply seems to be a convention to use the first letter of the lens color inside the figure. A was for amber in this case, though any color is fine. The circuit looks great.

One possibilty for inexpensive fuse holders are those that mount in holes in panels and have a cap. Many of these can use crimp on connectors. But if you don't have the terminals and tool, then it gets pricey again. But as I have seen on your grounding thread, you really need the crimp tool anyway. The other issue with those holders is that they work best with a D shaped hole to keep them from rotating. Having said all of that, there are also holders designed for one fuse that can be soldered or use the crimp on terminals.

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Coop...t%20Series.pdf

http://www.newark.com/jsp/Electrical...sp?sku=67K1780

http://www.newark.com/jsp/Electrical...sp?sku=67K2290

Mike, I am very partial to DIN rail mounted components that are very common here and in Europe. I think this style at at $2 - $3 is just right. (For these fuses one has to decide if they are going to be 20x5mm or 1x1/4")

While I have your attention, how fussy are you guys about the "flow direction"(?) inside a panel. For example, would you accept the bottom terminals of a contactor connected to mains and the top connected to the consumer - ie. flowing up? We tend to frown on that. We seem to want the consumer at the bottom and the supply from the top - ie. a disconnect switch will still be live(hot) on the top terminals even after turning off. Your comments?
(With bottom-entry cables it seems to make more sense to attach the mains to the bottom of the disconnect?)

Yeah, I looked at your links after I posted mine. :o I like those fuseholders too as long as you have end clamps or other devices to support them, such as the relay/contactor. Plus you have to buy some DIN rail.

Bottom feed is something I run into. I got bitten by it Thursday as a matter of fact. I had voltage on the bottom of the fuses and none across the fuses so they must be fine, right? They weren't and I lost about 20 minutes futzing around with other possibilities before I discovered the fuses were fed from the bottom. It can be much more convenient at times, but I think they out to be labeled as such if it is done.