A work of caution is needed in my opinion.
As Russell was pointing, surface prep is the main key to this Gorilla glue to adhere.
But also, other thing this glue (and most other ”non-gap filling” glues too) hate is GAPS.
As tiny as it can be, any gap will diminish the glue strength, to a point of useless !
Bear in mind his test was with two smooth steel surfaces !
Our application with crud steel angle Iron is just not smooth.
I, personally, tried it, with lots of efforts to make it work and "smoothing" the angle Iron w/xtra care cleaning both surfaces…, just nada… practically no gluing strength :mad:
At the end, testing gave me experience, knowledge of gluing steel with this …nop!!!
Ended up buying the 3M tape :o

No offence Russell, but put this tape in a fare compression with your test ( on this same prepped surface or even some rough ones, with the same “gluing / taping surface to compare with THAT , the tape will outperform that glue anytime !)

Conclusion….cause of the time it ended up costing me, ID advise to “stick” with what we know works with less time lost ( as time is $$$) !
To each his own…..my side & experience of it ( tried dam hard too ) !
Hope this help other with some thought :confused:

Amicalement, Robert ;)

Control Box taking more shape!
 

Well after 2 weeks of hell at work I finally have some time off. I made all the standoffs and was having a really hard time figuring out where to place everything. So I started to re-think my situation and decided to go modular. I ended up using some 80/20 10 series to lift everything up and be able to move the rails and geckos around. You will also see that I used it to mount the breakout board sides ways. I have probably moved everything around maybe 10 times now and I am pretty happy on the way it is turning out.

I have to wait for a 12v power supply to arrive and I need to read a few things before going forward.

My power supply has a 5v 1 amp regulated and 2 amp unregulated connection. I guess I dont understand if it is a regulated power supply or not. I want to use this connection to power the breakout board but not sure if it is good or not for it. Manual is here if you guys could help me out. http://kelinginc.net/KL-5020.pdf

Some things that I need to read up on are the Disable connections on the geckos. How to wire the relay for the start stop/e-stop.

I think I have written this before but for other BUY A BIGGER CONTROL BOX THAN THE ONE I HAVE PURCHASED!

It will make your life a lot easier. Things are turning out great but the more and more I shove into it the harder and harder things get to position and route.

I am open to all comments on the box so if you see something that looks wrong please voice it here so I dont have things go up in a puff of smoke. :D

Nice work on the panel, looks compact!
Yes, you can never have a box that is large enough ;)

Russell,

The box is small but you are doing an excellent job of laying out the parts and creatively making use of the space that you have. The layout is looking good.

Great job, but there's not much room below the PMDX-122 card to attach the parallel cable. Are you going to use the secondary connector instead?

Mike,
Good question. I just assumed that the top pin connector with a ribbon cable was going to be used. Hmmm, got me watching now.

Russell,
Last time I saw wiring job like that was in the engine compartment on a yacht.
Beautiful job,congrats.

Thanks for the comments guys!

Richard and Sean you are both right I will be going with the secondary/ top db26. I do have a inch between the Centronics and the back plate. I could probably use one of these to make it work but I dont feel I need to at this time. http://www.computercablestore.com/Ce...R_PID1365.aspx

I think I will have to pick up some LAN cable to run the signals from the breakout board to the Geckos. The wire I have running to it now is just to bulky and take up a lot of room and doesnt want to make sharp turns. Its a good thing I bought 350' of it so no real skin off my back. I was also able to run the SSR wire and Limit Switch wires to the BOB today. Not real exciting but planning 10 steps ahead is required. I will need to wait until the 12v Power Supply arrives so I can run the wires for it. My goal is to finish the control box by this weekend. :rolleyes:

Russel, I use ribbon cables between my BOB & the Drivers, excellent space saver, extremely flexible. lay it close to a grounded chassis & you have a shielded cable made.

Well just a update on the control box. I have almost everything wired. Between waiting for parts in the mail and working insane hours lately I haven't been able to give the electrics the attention that they require. I was able to get the standoffs welded on so the fan can move air around. Wired all the 220v section and almost everything to the BOB. I labeled some wires and drilled and tapped a lot of grounding points. What I have left is the door buttons and all the holes for the wires that go to the machine. I am just waiting on a 12v power supply all the water tight connectors for going through the box and they should be here Monday. I still need to find a db26 connector to plug in the BOB. If you guys know of a source for this it would be great if you could share. I can only find it in groups of 10 and I only need 1. I am starting to get anxious to build the beast. It looks like I will take 2 weeks off in the end of May so hopefully I can start building the table then.

Looks great, nice work! For a minute I thought you had your 4 cables going from the PMDX out of the enclosure or through a gland plate, I think you were just laying them out long over the edge rather than to the geckos? :)

Brian your are right. I just needed them out of the way and that was the easiest. Now they are mounted over the middle of the geckos on standoffs and routed into the appropriate controller. I would take a photo but I am quickly running out of photo space so I will post one when I am complete with it. I just have the door switch to wire and for some reason it is kicking my A$$.

Russell what are you using for your 12 volt supply? And how about a short description of all the components on the bottom DIN rail :)

Steve
I am using Micron 12volt din mountable power supply
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.55546/.f

I have two 16 amp circuit breakers and one 1amp circuit breaker. I have 30 amps going into the box and didnt want 30 amps going to the table.
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.5663/.f

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.5673/.f

For the limit/proximity switches I am using these be sure to get the 12v version for some reason this one keeps saying 24v. Also pick up a set of jumpers it saves on some wiring.

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.5416/.f

The load break. You will need the switch and shaft.
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.4511/.f

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.4517/.f

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.4843/.f

This is contactor
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.99/.f

Last but not least the Solid State Relay for the Router. I cannot find it on their website but I have the SSR225. Here is the spec sheet.
http://factorymation.info/relays/SSR-DIN.pdf

Hope that helps Steve. I think I am on my 4th order to Factory Mation and need to order a few more things. :D

That is a great help!

I see you are using the DIN mounted relays for the proxies and mounting them in your control box... The thread I have been reading is using relays mounted on the machine and routing just the one signal wire back to the bob using the 7 core wire... How are you running those proxy wires back to your panel?

Steve, I cant say I am a expert on this and from the thread and from seeing Nils in action I will be running four 4 core wires to the relays and proxies. I could see a 7 core wire working just I havent seen it done yet and I dont like wondering off the path to much.

I forgot to mention you can buy the Din rails in single quantitys if you dont want 5 of them.
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it...category=14881

Ok I give, I need help!

Well first I am proud of myself for not lighting anything on fire and for not electrocuting myself. But here is the problem. I cannot get power past the contactor. I have it wired just like the diagram in the instructions for 230v.

I turn the disconnect on and nothing happens which is what I expect to happen.

Then I Push the green button power button on the outside door and the light illuminates and as soon as I release the button the light goes out. Not what I expected.

I have checked and rechecked with a meter and against the diagram and everything is good.

So I started to experiment a little. I pushed on the center area to make the contact and with power not going to the estop buttons nothing happens. With the power on and pushing down I have a horrible sounding humming/buzzing noise.

I have not seen if power comes out the other end but I dont really want try just incase things dont go good.

So I need suggestions on what to try and what to look for. I could get you guys a video or some pictures but I dont know if it would help out that much as their is nothing much happening. Thanks for the help.

Russell, I’ll jump at it first !!:eek:

First off, yes, photos of you controller/electrical box or better yet, also include your actual electrical diagram if you made one aside of the plans ?

2nd, give me some voltage reading at a few points with a millimeter, if you have one. If not, will still manage :cool:
If no multi meter, maybe a minimum of a test light that can take +/- 220-240Vac.
Check where some & where no voltage and come back with some info & photos, I’ll be around later !
See ya, Robert ;)

Try testing the voltage going to the control on the contactor. The sound you are hearing could be the contactor not "latching up"

Russel,
check the coil voltage at A1 A2 In both senerios---Power on and no green btn.
Power on green btn. manually held.I agree it sounds like your relay is missing proper
feed to latch.

Thanks for the help guys. I have been at this for a couple of days now and finally said uncle. The failure to latch is what I am thinking (not that I know much). I did trace all the wires for continuity in both open and closed and every thing seemed good.

I will get voltage readings, pictures and a video for you guys tomorrow. Its just to dark in the garage to see anything. I have rewired the contactor maybe 5 times now and the photo will show how it is wired up. The only thing that I have straid away from the original drawing is points 13 to A1 but I have wired it in accordance with the manual and had the same results.

Thanks again guys. I will get you more tomorrow.

Russel, check the data tag for the coil it should list as 120 vac.A1 and A2 screws are at the VERY BOTTOM closest to the coil.To check the coil jump it with a 120 vac.

Ok so I threw on a headlamp and did some measuring.

Point 1 and 5 have 120volts

Points 2 and 6 have 0 Volts until I push down the contact points the I have 120v

Point 14 has a constant 120v

Point 13 has 0v normal and 120v when I push the green button.

Point A2 has 0v normal and 120v when I push the green button.

A1 has and the Lamp both have a way to neutral.


When I push and hold the button I get a very faint hum but no clapping sound (contactor slamming shut) When I manually push down on the contactor just a little I get no humming but power the way it should be. When I push the contactor all the way down I get a very audible hum with a lot of vibration.

Russel your missing the wire from contact 14 or Lt to the left side of the off btn.
this completes your latching circuit.

When you finger the contactor is it smooth? When you finger the contactor with power will it stay engaged?

It almost sounds by accident that you may have acquired a 240 coil.Bottom line if you apply 120 vac to a 120vac terminals A1 and A2 you should have initial engagement---not your fault.

When I finger it :D it does not stay latched.

If I went from post 14 to the light wouldnt it stay constantly on?

I went out and looked for a coil voltage and didnt seen anything. I did see a sticker that was in-between A1 and A2 that stated "460v 60hz" but I want to say that is for the loads in and out.

I have a CN-22-P6 and here is the info on it. http://factorymation.info/motor_cont...-18toCN-22.pdf

There are also 2 stickers on there that say remove as necessary. I might have a look at them tomorrow to.

I would break this down to a simple problem..

Take the contactor out of the box, hook up a lamp cord to the control contacts and plug the plug into a 120 volt wall socket... IF the contactor is working correctly you will have contact and you can measure the line terminals with a multi tester for resistance..

This would eliminate all other factors and make sure that the part is working... If it is working then you can proceed to your wiring and look for the problem there...

Check the thread "trouble with contactor" in section 70 from january. Sorry, can't link on my phone.

I think I might have found the problem. Kinda feel like an idiot but..... I am pretty sure I wanted to purchase a CN-22-F6 and not a CN-22-P6

Just to be sure could someone look at these 2 and make sure I have it right this time. The difference is 120v and 460v.

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.98/.f

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.5610/.f

Ah I think I see the problem... your contactor is for 460 volts!

TECO IEC Contactor - 22A, 460VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. / 1 N.C. Aux

The F6 is only rated for 6 amps

You need more amps... Something like this http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.98/.f its part number is CU-22-F6 and is rated for 22 amps Or this on http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.104/.f which is 35 amps... I think you said you had 30 amps coming in...

Yeppers now I have have another order into FactoryMation. They must think Im nuts. I have seriously wasted a few days trying to get this figured out. I should have asked a lot sooner for help but wanted to try and figure it out for myself. Would have never guessed 460v was for the coil. Cant even think how you would get 460v to a1 and a2.


Steve did you get your box in the mail yet?

No, not yet.. I'm in no hurry as I am still working on FactoryMation order # 1 :D

Did you get my PM about sharing a roll of tape?

Steve just make sure you order the right contactor, some fool around here is giving out bad information and is on his 5th order.:o

Russell, I am proud of all the guys who stepped in to help you diagnose your problem. :)

This illustrates how difficult it is to discuss noise / sounds / temperature / light / smell / etc. on a forum. If you thought you were hearing noises with that 460V coil, just wait till you hear the 120V coil kick in! :D

Your "mistake" was in the reading of the commas in the factorymation descriptions:

Contactor - 22A, 460VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. / 1 N.C. Aux
versus:
Contactor - 22A, 120VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. / 1 N.C. Aux

The phrases between the commas are what counts. (the last phrase indicates 2 Aux contacts)

Great thread !!! I had this issue with a Factory Mation coil as well. I ordered the wrong one the first time and fried the second one because I hooked it up wrong. But Gerald is right. When mine starts (It is triggered by the software) it sounds like someone hit it with a hammer.

It is used on my Dynatorch Plasma to start the exhaust fan.

I made a copy of this and put it in the Troubleshooting Thread

Hey, please note that the schematic in post #61 has many problems. Start by tracing the power feeds in, and see that l1 goes to N on the contactor, and vice-versa. The control circuit and the power circuit are intertwined with each other.

So, even after getting the right contactor, you still have work to do. Again check the "Trouble with Contactor" thread for both pictures and words about how this should look.

Brad, I don't see what you are seeing in that #61 diagram, please tell more?