Securing / screwing rail on the mains beams !
 

One question / option that been bothering me and I’m still not certain about ?

As for the screwing in place the rails on the main table beams, original design are to be hold down by screws & tap holes in the main beams.
Anything not right by no taping holes and going instesd w-drill through holes to then use screws, nuts and those bevel washers ?!?

Reasons I’m looking at this second option, I tend to imagine it would be faster & easier to do ( and as good) vs the drilling and tedious task of making those threads in the beams !?
Thanks, Robert;)

Robert, I have done both.

The bolt option works, it's just a bit of a pain to align the washer on each and every one as you move along. I would make sure NOT to over drill the beam hole and keep that is close to tolerance as the bolt size to minimize movement of the fastener/rail during machine vibrations.

Tapping those 5/16" holes with my screw gun only took about 20 mins for all of them.

Use the right lubricant and get tapping with a spiral point tap.

Yep, thanks Sean…I’ll kick my butt and tap with a little more patience :o

I’m usually a very patient guy on elaborate & tedious work, but I’ll be honest …. I’m getting really anxious to get this project moving a bit faster and hate the thought of hand taping so many holes…a repetitive boring task :(
Till you told me you did yours with a drill, I was a little intimidated using my battery screw gun to tap, as I had a few time ( not on this project although) broken taps in the hole while in hand / manual mode…I would just hate to see this happen on this project this time :mad:

Bear in mind, loving this steel making experience with this project, but it’s neither my field expertise nor hobby to play making stuff with steel.
When no experience, I tend to move slower and more intimidated, afraid to screw up what I fell can happen…. Thinking of a Murphy’s law…. (doesn’t he say something like…When thing are going alright, something wrong is bound to happen…. Close to that !!)

What lube do you use?

I’ve use drilling & tapping oil for all my drilling ( a darn there is a lot of holes in my bolt on project !! ) and seems fine, but did not try it for tapping…YET !!

Well…Thanks again Sean…needed that push.. :D
Amicalement, Robert ;)

Nothing like a simple test :rolleyes:

Well, broke my barrier…Did it with my drill / screw gun…

Attachment 6951

Twice taped in C-3 as a test and all went super fine & easy with some treading / tapping oil.
Did this a few time in alu before, but was afraid to even think trying this drill thing in steel….May be I over lubed it, but rather a little more oil than a broken tap !!
Goes to say….give it a try, you may be surprised !!
Thanks again….Later, Robert ;)

Thanks for your advice Gerald …. ( great to see your back :) )

Right after my success test, I went along and proceed thread making as per my chart ( pilot hole with a final step at 6.8mm in order to thread M8-1.25).
Before every hole, I was cleaning the tap with a tooth brush & lightly dipping it in to oil and proceeded to the next …a charm to do !
A sean said, +/- 20 minutes to do all !!

Attachment 7034

To some who may wonder, In this photo bear in mind the metal residue on top of the beam is an accumulation from drilling pilots & tapping !...not just tapping…

Thanks Gerald & Sean for the support & tips…. More to come, Robert ;)

Source for Z-Plate Hole Layout
 

Robert: How did you make the full scale printed page with the Z-Plate holes? I assume it is from drawing 10 40 334 but how do you scale it to full size? Thanks Joe

Joe,
My Z-plate is not from original drawing plans, although are very similar dim specs, I’ve drawn from my own out of another drawing software !
With the original PDF plans you can do the same technique as I did but need to convert those pdf in some other cad software in order to get original 1:1 scaling.
It can be done with most ( if not any) small regular printers. You want to select the “Tile print, Tile all pages” or for some called “ tiling enable”.
This allows your printer software to map out on several pages what you have selected to be printed on more than one page.
Problem in this example with the original MechMate PDF drawings, the drawings are scaled down to fit common paper size ( A4 or letter size).
So, on this Z-Plate example, take autocad or most any other cad software and draw your own or convert the pdf in your favorite cad software and from that software, print out the drawing, not scale down using the option “tile printing” and viola on how it can be done.

Hope this can help, amicalement Robert ;)

Robert: Thanks, I thought that might be the case and I am laying the holes out in TurboCad. Once finished, with Gerald's permission, I will post the DXY and/or DWG files for others to use. Joe

14" Z-Slide Templates
 

Here is a DXF file for the 14" Z-Slide hole layout template. It needs to be printed full scale in tiled mode per Robert's note.

Robert,
Wonderful build! Love your organized progress, I can emulate your work on my slow progressing build.

A stupid question, those tap on your hand drills are just normal tapping tools?

Cheers

Ken

Robert,,,beautiful!!!
hope to see this mm working!!!

Merci Mario...your welcome anytime, simply PM a few days before. Robert ;)

The Y-car
 

Long overdue to report my progress and new phots :o!

Well… It’s been a real roller coaster ride since day one I’ve committed to start my build, and not over yet….Although a real positive & good experience for me.
Lately, had to put a halt to the build as money and some committed commission orders to do and…well.... also been shopping for a building to move in as you will notice through some photos, space is at premium for me !

The Y-car :
Shop set up ( from woodworking to part time metal welder ! ), assembling parts, welding & grinding then picking up and storing after = one full evening ( +/- 4-5hrs for me ! )

For this one, all & all it was easy and straight forward to do. Being alone, clamps are a must as low cost labor / extra hands for any assembly….without the moaning !
the dry fit :

Attachment 7163

Squaring it and triple confirming its squareness !

Attachment 7165

A few clamps to help tack welding and ….

Attachment 7164

DIY tack welder...

Attachment 7166

Tack finished

Attachment 7167

Full welds and …..voilà after a little clean up of those tack !

Attachment 7168

Next, the Gantry !!
 

Another step which required a full evening of work !
Here’s a dry fit & squaring the assy on a shop made box frame base that I use for various work set up as my “poor man machinist marble table” as a solid, straight & true base, then for this, I topped it with a sacrificial melamine board I bought for this beast project as a welding surface !.

Attachment 7169

A close up of squaring it ( shop-made polycarbonate square )

Attachment 7171

After tack welding, 2ble checking squarness, full welds

Attachment 7173

and viola, the gantry completed….. then cleaning up, storing things to get shop ready for next morning work !
Later ;)

Have been reading with great interest,

good job Robert!

Ries

Ries, thanks for the support.
Watching your build, wishing you a nice “kitchen science” running test !
Amicalement, Robert ;)

Well done so far Robert. This will be a machine that will be in the top of the class. Keep us informed

Nice work! (It took me a while to spot the "shop-made polycarbonate square")

Great going Robert,

good looking parts so far.
I also like your tool collection.

Greetings
Claus

Great progress! You are making me look lazy!

Watching your progress with great admiration.

(It took me a while to spot the "shop-made polycarbonate square")
My mistake as I unintentionally skipped the photo when I was editing the post :o
Here’s Nicer photo of it :
Attachment 7177

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments…it’s a nice motivator !
Unbelievable the gain of respect I now have for metal working…. I personally underestimated A LOT the required time to make project that size. Not that it is that much big, just I personally never done such one as this all alone !.....did I ever said …I really love this :D

More to come soon as I lack time to edit !
Amicalement, Robert ;)

hi Roberts!!!
good works,,,,looks very nice;)
i have a question for you,where did you get the laser cuts and profiles bending? that's look well and what about this précision?
thank's Mario!





on a une shop ici a nicolet mais je sais pas pour les petites quantités.
je connaissais le proprio mais il a vendu a un autre donc?????

Ok guys, another overdue update….
 

This rail making was actually one of the first steps done in September. Back then I’ve spent nearly a week worth of work trying to accomplish these rails ….. Oh man…what a miserable adventure it was for me!...
Not actually grinding them, but because I bought what I’d say “a cheaper than cheap…. A real wrong grinder purchase !”

At the end, it boils down to confirm a very old wise recommendation I usually to go buy, but got bitten again for not following it !!
I’m talking about….You’re never poor enough to buy cheap tools!...be frugal…that’s all ok and even mandatory…BUT NOT CHEAP…it will cost ya !
This got so true in this rail making adventure !!!
what a pita…. Not the making of the rail by them self, oh no, this freeken grinder made me loose all this time !

first, the rough cut…. Somehow it got fine after some &?%$%$@# with a bracket mod
Attachment 7212

My bracket did not clear the angle Iron for the 1st cut…My mistake forgot to look at update recommendation on rails…MAX 2” height…Dooo
So went back in the shop and quickly improvised to make another support …

Attachment 7213

and then started to get some fun going –on as you can see, fun it was…

But after that….some more cursing went on as mistake over mistake started hunting me !
The grinder I bought, over full yr before this making, was initially bought on sale (60% off) for this rail making..
This marketed “mid-quality” grinder was confirm to me by some other fellow Canadian MM builders whom have use it for their rail making, it went fine for them and did ok for their rail making ??!!
Well, all but fine for me !
After my 1st attempt on rough cutting ( 2 afternoons for me )The grinder initially had some acceptable vibration due to unbalance & off center cheep mechanism that only got worse, to a point of those bad vibration slowly unscrewing some OEM mounting screw and strip it’s threads….darn ! (strip holding screw) and almost ruin a rail job by grabbing a chunk of the rail!

Attachment 7214

Sooo…. after some re-threading for some bigger screws, got bitten by another screw screwing with me
Attachment 7215

by stripping the star head, finally got back to grinding to a smoother flat surface so I can tackle the angle stage making ( yep, had to re-surface the pair of rails to a new lower level, 27.5mm, since one of them got taken a chunk off…$%#@?&#%%$

But hold on ….not so fast….my grinder had in mind of its own…
Yep that’s right, it seem to have a malicious mind of its own, a real sh## disturber !
Another pitfall…. The single bearing design were the disc holding is keeping everything all together by some miracle, went kaput !

Attachment 7216

It could not take the forces applied as this shaft is not supported at the other end, meaning only that single small bearing (6000) is holding this shaft on its axis and at the end of that shaft, it is left without any support or bushing.
Also, that same shaft must have some out of roundness / misalignment of such as it tend to wear grinding disc in a constant uneven mater
Attachment 7217
creating more unbalance vibration as disc wear goes on, to only creating more stress in this bearing, which in turn is only a matter a short time before it all goes KAPUT …. again!!

So, after replacing the bearing with a better SKF, as I was mounting it, one of the bearing retaining screw head….well… breaks !%&?@!!! Leaving the screw in its thread without any head….more delay…after all, I needed that !!!

Attachment 7218

What a saga this was :o
All & all, making rail by them self isn’t not so bad, once you have made some….that is with a descent quality grinder !
I can see & recommend a trial run would be very beneficial experience before tackling the final angle iron. Testing your set up first on a scrap always become beneficial at the long run !!

DIY rail making….would I re-do some….Me!!!!, personally Nop….get someone else to do it vs sub this out…of course!.
Pay a machine shop for this, no way!!!! Just too easy for any DIY… when equipped & once you have done some practice run
For me, just no worth my time & money as I run a little business where my time is more valuable, but well worth it if you can get reasonably prices quality labor… And a ½ descent grinder !

Some other various shots as I was making those rails !...Enjoy, Robert ;)

Rail tab

Attachment 7219

Rail bending after

Attachment 7220

Some late knight overtime work...

Attachment 7221

...and all finito :D
Attachment 7222

MARIO…
As for precision on laser cut part, I’ll repeat what Gerald said many time…all fine and even impressive !!
Got my parts from a source nearby Boucherville.
It is most likely there is a few laser cutting shops in your area ( Trois rivière, Victo, …) Here, I found one for you check this LINK, this guy is in victo, but get the parts done at a huge, very huge laser cut parts player in Quebec called CBR.
But CBR does not bent …Only cuts....:p
so don’t think cutting this Victo guy thinking you may get it cheaper…na…This guy in Victo has a business agreement / exchange with CBR. They do the bending, CBR cuts !!

Anyway, look up in your local industrial listing, you may actually be very surprise how many shops can do this…
Just a few weeks ago I found a water jet cutting service in a shop that theri name & advertisement is…WELDING :confused:….nothing to do with water jet cutting ???
Amicalement, Robert
Envoy moi tes messages par Messagerie interne personnel ( Private Message PM )!:rolleyes:

Robert,

Thank you for the very well documented approach on your rail cutting. Your persistency in solving the problem is admirable.

Your shop-made square is a very good idea. I am thinking of making one with this addition: place a few LED's inside it and make a light pipe. Then the edges of the square which are opaque will illuminate and might give a better edge distinction. Just an idea.

another little mod I did !!
 

Hi all…
Things are on a halt for the past couple of weeks, other work priorety had to take place, even on my « evening time »… Pita !!!
BUT…took time for this :
Here is another little mod I did, change the Y-car dummy idler (M1 30 222) & bushing ( M1 30 224) in order to fit with one of those skate bearings (6001). We all buy 8 of them for the skate… and do not use them for anymore to the project….It only seem coherent with this wise & frugal approach to this project !!!

Attachment 7274

So… All & all, in a “hand-push” dynamic test, all seem fine, but only the long run test will tell !!

Attachment 7276

Here if the bearing isn’t push all in, I want to wait till paint is done before doing so !

Attachment 7275

Hope you like this Gerald … :o :confused:
Later...Amicalement, Robert ;)

The mod is okay, but it looks unfinished with surplus metal points. Some 2 minute sketches:

Gerald,
As I’m certain your keen « eagle » eyes has notice it from some of my previous post photos these mods I did !!!
I went with the arc cut approach ( same as your middle draft ), in part cause esthetics as I tried to keep it as close to original design, and part to give it another reason / use for it.
This other reason is to allow, for some if they value the need for it, to go with a bigger motor gear, IE; say 35t. ( clearence issue )
Back then ( nearly 2yrs ago) when I amuse my time to draw those drawing / changes, we were merely speaking of transmission with reduce ratios. Now to some it may seems a must !!
We were also trying to keep it simple and some prefer simply having other gear size to change vs having to make or by plates & accessories to make a reduce ratio trany.
Anyway, that is why you may have notice those cress / arc cut in my plates ( gantry & Y-car). I thought good to have this option to go with 35T or + to start ( for those who would need or want a higher resolution) and then, after fome time your Mechmate has run, make your own trany if your needs call for one.
Cheaper to start buy buying gears as starters to make this test than invest in the hole reduction trany approach…but I also comprehend the end result is not the same either…that is why you may also have notice or seen in the past that I too have drawings to support making my own trany ?
Only after my build is completed, running and I got some experience with it I can call for its real need, even if some have shown to this groop the benefit of it, the benefit is as good as a need calls for it !!
simply though of it as an alternative to suite some needs, if ever it is needed.... !!

Merci, amicalement Robert ;)

Salut Robert ,Gerald Tres belle machine que tu fabrique la .Domage pour le grinder ça ralenti son homme . As tu aussi brisé l'autre petit B&D grinder ou tu veut l'épargné pour le musée ;) Pense tu déménagé avant de monter ta machine ,Si t'organise une journée porte ouverte informe moi ..Faudrai bien que je fasse le pelerinage pour aller voir un MM prendre vie. C'est beaucoup de question et je trouve pas le point d'interrogation sur ce clavier.a+
Normand

NORM !!!!
Hey..psss…point d’intéro = shift + 6 :p
Grinder B & D…pas de repos pour cette bête de travaille…. Mon 1e grinder y’a plus d’20 ans…and keeps on sparking :D
Bin du trouble avec l’intention et de me trouvé place pour déménager….
Pour ces raison et autres que ma version de la bête et visable / démontable….elle prendra ces 1e pas ici même !!
Tu s’ai que tu es le bienvenu en tout temps, simplement appel d’avance…
See you soon you crazy baboon :D
Amicalement, Robert ;)

?bien oui c'est sur. Peut etre ja poussiere dans mes lunette, le point mort dand mon champ de vision ,ou ste clavier d'alien avec 8 icones sur la touche 6 . Pareillement grande dents
j'tapelle
Normand

Hybrid…the spider with a neck!!!
 

Hi boys....
Well, now is the right time to let out what I timidly tried on my own:o
another alternative / approach / type of bracket for the Z-slide transmission support ( #10 40 434).
It combine the spring bracket ( 10 40 386) that usually mount on the Y-car.
This design as it is has no provision with several holes in order to compensate for those various spring lengths or “pressure”, BUT can easily be added / modified if needed for mass “sharing” !!
Anyway, it’s Just for fun sake (and maybe science…naaaa not me…a modest woodworker ! ) an maybe offer another alternative to a simpler MM builds in the future…only if Gerald approves !!

Attachment 7402

My work Steps to install & weld it was a little in disorder as I lacked taking a few minutes to prep a step by step work approach…. had a rough day of work then and…well… some brain fades mixed with the need to finish it ASAP to end my day ( it was a late nigh thing again ! )!...a recipe to only attract delays and mistakes !!

Anyway, Started by welding the bushing & nuts first and then this new bracket

Attachment 7403

Needed these squares in order to make those 1st tack weld as it is not self supported and also had some little mistakes by the laser / bent shop which passed through my attention when I pick up all those parts…. Last june 2008 !!!
Once welded in place

Attachment 7405
Attachment 7406

The idea of verifying if the spider bushings are laying flat came to me … well a bit late, but again, it’s never too late to dbl check !
Although before welding any of these on this spider, I double check the spider for its flatness and had to do some minor adjustment as per recommended by Gerald ( here a link to it )

Anyway, after welding my prototype, I got disappointed to discover one bushing already welded was 0.55mm shorter as per my filler gauges

Attachment 7404

Well…some my say… only 0.55mm…tolerable !! NOP !!
Look what happens when I push down this corner…
Attachment 7407
major off alignment !
So…all welded, +/- 10 pm, no one at this time nor nearby to surface grind this at this time and the conviction to finish it that same night…
I used one wing of my jointer with some 100G sandpaper + some low tack spray adhesive to the back of this paper as my low-tech level grinder….

Attachment 7408

works nicely as I’ve done this several time in the past on other projects

Marked the bushing with a marker

Attachment 7409

After a couple passes, check what work was needed to be done

Attachment 7413

notice lower left bushing…not scratched yet !
After several strokes ( +/- 20 passes) =

Attachment 7414

And the final result after +/- 30min of total time

Attachment 7415

…not bad for a poor man surface grinder !!
Now I know it is perfect and ready to receive those nice V-bearings !

Attachment 7410
Attachment 7411

Well… enough said for today…hard day of work and it’s late for me !
Gerald....Hope you like this.... :o
More to come another time !

Later, Amicalement, Robert ;)

Looks good
 

Looks good .

thats really good.

In your last picture, I see that the back end of your stepper motor is open. I suggest that you cover that hole with tape because sawdust in there will be direct onto the non-sealed bearing. (We have destroyed bearings like that already).

Thanks for the advise Gerald, Will most defiantly do….. just haven’t had time for this important « stepp » yet !....just not there among zillion things to do….. ( Shop work, office work, visiting potential customer, drawing & planing new orders, visiting source supplier, getting ready for the X-mas period business wise, trying to find desperately a new business location and that one alone is consuming alot, fixing daily oups & darn…. and that is only 50% of thing to do !!! )….. And oh ya, make some orders / customers furniture…… :o

BTW Gerald, what is your appreciation on this “spider neck” approach, Robert ;)

I prefer to stay silent on your spider neck.

Robert,
Nice work. But is it really necessary? While your solution to a "problem" that didn't exist appears to add cost and time to the build. I don't understand why you would add the complexity to an already complex part.

Sean

Sean,
I must point out, I did this out of curiosity not as a solution to a none exiting problem…no problem reported on the existing bracket…..:confused:
I did this mostly to see if there could be a future interest as an alternative (to see/look outside of the box…remember !).
BTW, no real complexity, just a additional neck that “magically grew :eek:” from the already needed spring bracket (#10 40 386)
It just seem more in sink to me ( from a none engineer simple woodworker) for a tensioning spring not to elongate because of the Z travels… Simple not complicated, but defiantly not complex or needed :D
Just a little more….mmmm….hassles to weld if you like it to be line, but their again, not needed to square it !
It was defiantly fun to do & look at it done !
Amicalement, Robert ;)

Robert I like your idea. If it is cut to incorporate the motor mount and the spring mount (in one piece ... and I think it is) it will make welding the mount much easier and I don't see any real expense ........... good idea :cool: Will you pm me the dxf file???