Spindle Coolant Klugepile
 

Here are a couple pics of the coolant system for my water cooled spindle. I'm not proud, and maybe even embarrassed about the current install, but it IS working, and the components seem to be good ones so far.



http://www.Goes-Postal.com/post/cool1.jpg

The first pic is a rear view. The red thing hanging from the underside is the Grundfoss pump. The small tube is the output side, and it goes directly to the spindle. The output side of the spindle, not visible from this pic, feeds into the resevoir. The resevoir is just a plastic tupperware style container. I put two bulkhead fittings onto it, and filled it with a combo of water and antifreeze (about 10% antifreeze I'm guessing). The output side of the resevoir connects to the transmission cooler, which is the big black radiator thing. The output of the tranny cooler connects to the pump and completes the loop.

http://www.Goes-Postal.com/post/cool2.jpg

Second pic shows a side view to show how things mounted up. I have an alum bar that connects to my Z actuator. Its what I connect my Shopbot style cable carrier to. I simply mounted a piece of slotted angle iron to this, and bolted on whatever brackets and mounts I needed. It travels with the Z axis, and hangs off the back side of my vertical style aluminum gantry. Hope the pictures make some sense.

It ain't pretty, but it does work. The larger pump provides more than adequate flow. The resevoir is small, but adequate. The whole mess hangs on the top of my Z axis linear actuator and goes along for the ride.

I was expecting the additional weight to be a problem, but it doesn't seem to be so far. What I do now have is confidence that the spindle will not overheat. In my first several tests I've let the spindle warm up for 10 or 15 minutes and the water does get warm moving from the spindle to the pump. After the warm up period you can feel heat in the water, radiator, and tubes, but nowhere near enough to be a danger to the spindle. Still, no test under load to this point.

Getting the system going was a bit of a challenge. If there are air bubbles anywhere the pump may not be able to push water thru. I ended up using a sump pump (the kind you use to remove water from a flooded basement) and a temporary hose to force water thru the radiator. It took just a second or two, but it removed all air bubbles and the Grundfoss pump was able to pump once this was done.

Thanks for your help and pointers all in getting this going. This is going to work. I just need to clean up the install.

It looks great Wayne. I'm really envious.

great Wayne - I am looking forward to work on my spindle soon.


RGDS
Irfan.

Wayne , any updates you wanna share with us now?

RGDS
IRfan

Sorry, watching the Inauguration
 

I'm sorry I havent added much more about the spindle. Its up and working, and seems to be doing fine. I know the cooling system is working and that the speed control is working and Mach 3 controls it just fine.

I just ran a set of five Adirondac chairs. Each chair uses 5 1x12 pine boards. I can cut thru the material in a single pass, but hold down becomes an issue, so I used two passes with bridges, which worked fine. I did break a worn 1/4" bit on a knot. The spindle reduces the cut time to under half of the time with the Porter Cable router. Its quieter, but not that much less because of the whine of the quarter inch spiral bit. There is no burning, very little chatter and no sound of strain AT ALL on the spindle. It gets warm but never hot. The tranny cooler radiator was not overkill.

I played with speed and feed rates, and found that if I pushed too hard, or if the bit was worn I could get the spindle to stop and the VFD to give an error message. This happened maybe three times, and when I reduced the feed rate from 220 ipm to 160 ipm I got more consistent results. That's plenty fast thru knotty pine. I'm still working on getting Constant Velocity optimized, so I get rounded corners on some tightly spaced moves. That's not related to the spindle.

I just started, or re-started my custom woodworking business, which much get priority for now. I had intended to create a sort of mini- ebook on installing the watercooled spindle, but I won't be able to until I get some business work done.

Thanks for your patience, all. If some of you need some info on specific parts, I'm more than happy to respond. I check the forum almost daily.

Congrats to President Obama, and here's to HOPE.

Wayne

Thanks Wayne for the update :)

Hey Wayne, I ran my spindel last night without Mach as a test, just on/of and sone speeds up and down, at first i thought the winding sound was a worn bearing, suppose it has to be like that, wil work on mach setup, dont understand it yet and dont know how to start, just has to i guess

Happy Cutting

Koning,
Congrats on getting it fired up. Do you have the cooling part done yet? And what kind of VFD do you have? There may be some programming to do on the VFD before put it in service. But I know how good it is to just hear the thing spin and get it wired to this point.

Onward!

Wayne

I have one of these Chinese SPindles and VFD's and I am trying to figure out how to connect the VFG to my CNC4PC C11 board for spindle on/off and speed control - can anyone help?

Thanks

David

david - you do have the manual for the vfd haven't u?

Yes, but it's not helping.

David

can you post it here pls - atleast we can try.

Sure, here it is.

Thanks

David

David

Congrats on the new spindle and VFD. It may be slightly different model than the one I have, but I can give some general instructions.

Here's the connections:
1) Input voltage- Terminals marked R S and T are for the voltage input. This is where you connect your 220 V single phase if that's what you are using. Use TWO of the three terminals if you have single phase power. I don't know what voltage or phase power you have, but it connects here. If its US 220V single phase, you'd connect the two HOT legs to any two of these three terminals. In single phase 220V, the neutral leg connects to terminal E, the ground terminal. I'd check input voltage with a meter to be sure. Getting it wrong here will release the magic smoke from inside the VFD. Just be sure not to connect the neutral to any of the three input voltage terminals, or a hot lead to the ground terminal.

2) Output to spindle- this is the 3 phase power that the VFD sends to the spindle. Connect shielded cable of at least 14 ga wire to terminals U V and W. This wire will terminate to the plug at the spindle. Solder these. Don't connect the shield (the braided wire that surrounds the other wires) at the spindle end. It connects to ground back at the VFD. If your spindle rotates the wrong direction, that is if FWD makes it spin CCW instead of CW, you can just reverse a pair of wires going to the VFD and it will change the rotation direction.

3) Connect ground- It appears that your ground is terminal E. I'd verify that with a meter- when the VFD is on, this terminal should not measure any + volts measured to chasis ground. Run a wire to this terminal and connect it to the shield from the spindle cable and on to your systems common ground point and to the neutral wire of your input voltage.

Control connections. I use the C6 speed control board to take output from Mach 3 and create the 0-10V the VFD needs to control speed. I'm not that familiar with the C11, so I can't comment. But you can also wire the spindle 'manually' so that it works without the speed control thru Mach 3. On your VFD, if you connect a 10K trim pot to the +10V terminal and ground (E), and send its variable output to the VI terminal. Change this variable resistor should provide speed control. You can use this to control speed, and the RUN or Start control on the VFD to start and stop the spindle.

CONNECT AN EMERGENCY STOP to this before you use it. Put this near your operating position or somewhere safe so you can stop the spindle quickly without software. I put an in-line switch with a big red stop paddle that disconnects power to the VFD. There may be a better way, but be sure to have some method NOT related to software to shut off the spindle.

Finally, you may need to program the VFD to get it to run right. I don't know how yours is configured from the factory, or how you will use the spindle. But the descriptions of the programming start on page 26. I can tell you how mine is programmed, but I can't say for certain that is what you will need.

Well, that will get you started. Let me know what kind of speed control board, and what you are using the spindle for, and I'll try to help you get that part connected. If it were me, I'd first get to where you can get the spindle to turn on and off at the VFD panel, and use a variable resistor to control the speed. AND install an E-stop of some kind.

Oh, and get some water cooling connected. Do you have a method in mind?

I'm using mine all the time, and it works just fine. Its a struggle to get it running, but it does work well.

Good luck with your project. I'll try to monitor here to answer questions if I can.

Wayne C
White Salmon, Washington State

Hi Wayne - Thanks!

Yes I am using single phase 220v (USA).

The C11 board contains the C6 board functionality so I you could tell me what the VFD to C6 board connections are that would be very useful.

If you could tell me the VFD settings that you had to set, that would also be usefull. I am using my Spindle on a CNC Router that I am building.

My spindle is the 1.5kw air cooled version so I don't have to worry about water cooling.

Thanks again for the help

David

Hi David - look here for programming HINTS -

Bad news, I just smoked the spindle :(

I went through the VFD functions and they looked okay but I missed PD142 which is the rated current of the motor and it was set to 7 (I assume Kw) and this is a 1.5kw motor so I assume it should have been 1.5.

Do we know how many poles the motor is? (PD143), Also for PD144 Rated Motor Revolutions for this motor it is 24,000?

David

I just did some more checking, just looking at the motor specs shown on the seller Ebay shop and it looks like the motor is 6amps, also the PD142 function is set in amps. The VFD was set to 7amps, would that difference be enough to blow the spindle?

David

Also before the spindle when up in smoke I saw AOL (I think that is correct) appear on the VFD display briefly - not sure what that means and there is no reference in the manual.

David

did you blow it on the first connect? think you can claim the warranty on the spindle!

The current setting on the VFD is a current limit. The VFD cannot pump that current unless there is a load (or fault) on the motor. The setting value is the most that the VFD would be willing supply under load (or fault) conditions.

If you were heavily loading the spindle and the VFD limit was set too high, then you may have overloaded the motor and the VFD did not limit you. That is not claimable under warranty. If you loaded the spindle and did not have a cooling system running, that also isn't claimable under warranty.

However, if you had simply connected for the first time, and switched on with no load, I guess only a faulty motor winding would create the smoke. The VFD current setting doesn't help in the case of faulty windings.

It turns out that unless you set the VFD to more than 100hz the fan on the air cooled does not start. I had left it at 50Hz to start figuring it did not matter for first test, but I was wrong and it overheated in minutes.

As far as I can see the manual does not say anything about this.

Anyway I am sending it back to the seller and he is sending me a new one.

David

VFD settings
 

I just did the same thing. The settings that have to match the motor Hz rating on the Huanyang VFD HY02D223B are
PD003 Main Frequency 0.00~400.00 Hz set to 400.00
PD004 Base Frequency 0.01~400.00 Hz set to 400.00
PD005 Max Operating Frequency 50.00~400.00 Hz set to 400.00
to match the rating on the 2.2Kw spindle. I changed these to this setting and the spindle runs up fine. My concern is that the VFD is rated at 50Hz +/- 5Hz on the primary side and North America is 60Hz. Electronics may be ok with this. Maybe someone with more knowledge can shed some light on this. The supplier is going to replace the spindle for me as well.

Smoke? Dang!
 

That smoke is supposed to stay inside the spindle. I hope you can get it replace, and I really hope it wasn't something I advised you to do, or left out of my advice.

Here's some info on how to connect the speed control to your VFD.

The VFD needs two things in order for Mach 3 to control speed.
1) ON/Off and/or direction control. The M3 command in Mach 3 outputs a voltage on a pin you specify in Ports/Pins. This voltage triggers the relay on the C6/C11 board. When this relay is engaged, it completes the circuit in the VFD that turns the spindle on. The VFD provides a 24V source on the DRV terminal. So, connect 24V from the DRV terminal to the C11 relay terminal for CW, and then connect the relay teminal to the FOR terminal on the VFD. This will allow Mach 3 to turn the spindle off and on in the CW direction.

2) Speed control- the C11 should provide a 0-10V output controlled by Mach 3. If you need help getting this setup let me know. If you have the 0-10V you need, you just connect this output from the C11 board to the VI terminal on the VFD. Verify that this is positive voltage in the range from 0-10V, and that it changes when you change speed in your control software.

You may also have to change the program settings for control of the VFD. Mine defaults to manual speed control from the VFD panel. To use the VI input you'll need to program the VFD to accept speed control from the VI input. I think this is PD001, and the setting is likely to be 1, external terminals.

This should get the speed control working. You'll need to adjust the trim pot on the C11 board so that the max speed on your spindle happens at 10V. Just use the software to set speed to the max, maybe 22K rpm or whatever. At this max speed, adjust the trimpot so that the voltage out is 10V.

If you need help getting the software to give the correct signals for speed control let me know.

Good luck with this!

Wayne C

Thanks Wayne.

Yes they are cross shipping me a new one, I also ordered the 2.2Kw water cooled version so I will need to make a new mount for that.

Here is the mount I made for the 1.5kw air cooled version

Daviid
Your spindle mount is a thing of beauty. Did you cut that yourself? My CNC is not stout enough to cut alum (at least I'm to chicken to try it). I cut one out of phenolic, and before long I'll install that. It should work. I keep a list of upgrade ideas, and when things slow down I work on the CNC upgrades.

Are you using Mach 3? Do you need help gettting this set up to work with your spindle?

But I do know how to get Mach 3 configured for the VFD, and I'm happy to help.

W

Hi Wayne,

Yes I cut it myself using my highly modified Sherline Mill.

I may well need your help with the Mach 3 setup so any information will be gratefully accepted.

David

Having now got my 2.2kw spindle running okay, I am now working on interfacing the speed and on/off control to Mach 3.

First I am working on the speed, I have set and confirmed that I am getting 10v out of the analog connection on my CNC4PC C11 card and it responds to changeing the spindle speed on Mach 3, however when I connect it to the VFD with the 0-10v going to the VI connector and the ground going to the ACM connector and setting PD002 to 1, I get no change in speed. Have I connected it wrong to the VFD or is there other settings in the VFD I have to change?

Thanks

David

Well congrats on getting to this point. You are really pretty close to being ready to roll.

I don't have the manual PDF anymore, so I can't really tell you if any other programming needs to be changed. Point me to the pdf and I'll take a look.

But you might back up a step and see if the VFD can vary its speed without the speed control. By that I mean, if you test the speed control at the VFD with a potentiometer and it varies the speed, you'll know that the connections are correct, and that the speed control circuitry is OK.

If I recall from the manual when I read it, the VFD wants a 10K variable resistor to control speed. But I can't recall what terminals provide the voltage. In your manual the diagram that shows the connections to the VFD will show the VC input for the voltage speed control input. It will show a common for that circuit. It should also show a terminal that supplies 10 or 12 V. That's where you get the voltage to use with the variable resistor (sorry, potentiometer). Connect the variable resistor so that the center terminal provides a POSITIVE voltage that varies when you turn the knob. This is what connects to the VC input. If that works, I bet you its something to do with either the spindle ON OFF circuit, or there is some other programming switch we need to throw.

Onward! If you can point me to the manual, I'll try to be more helpful.

Wayne

spindle speed control wiring PMDX-122
 

Hi, i need of a suggestion: what is the correct wiring from PMDX-122 to the inverter, is mach3 that changes speed to the spindle ?

Hi Renraku, There is a relay on the PMDX-122 that will switch on the router. It will switch up to 10A if I remember correctly. I use it to tell my inverter to power on my Chinese spindle. The PMDX-122 itself does not regulate the speed. You will need to acquire a separate circuit for speed control through Mach. It will mimic the 0-10v to your inverter or VFD. I was about to go that route, but ended up going with a variable resister so I can dial in the correct speed by ear. It works much better for me. Look at your VFD manual to set this. You will need to buy the correct potentiometer or variable resister for the application. The specs should be in your VFD manual. Good luck Renraku!

thanks

Waynec,

Following up on your connections to the c6 board, can you clarify for me the exact connection to the speed control. The analog output connection on the C6 is labeled GND and 0-10V. On the VFD, I connect the 0-10V to VI. Is the GND side connected to ACM? Please advise. THANKS

Update
 

Update:

For those that are interested, I thought I would post my spindle setup and some of the problems that I ran into. I am converting from a Milwaukee router to a spindle, but because it is a production system, I have to do a lot of testing before I can do the final installation. As of right this minute, I have not mounted the spindle or connected the water-cooling so I cannot test for any signal interference. I have tested the wiring, electrical connections, VFD, and spindle From what I can tell, they are operating correctly.

I have attached a PDF drawing showing the connections between the VFD, Spindle and the control boards. On my system, I am using a PMDX-122 to drive a CNC4PC C6 board to control the Spindle On relay as well as controlling the speed.

I purchased the Keling KL-VFD22 VFD and KL-2200 Spindle – but from everything that I read, it is identical to the Huanyang HY02D223B VFD and 2.2KW Chinese Spindle.

I hate to admit it, but the first problem that I had with the VFD was providing the proper power. I used a 240V Single Phase double pole breaker, wired it to an EMI filter, passed it through a 2-pole switch and connected it to the R & S leads of the VFD. Flipped the power on and nothing happened. I tested the power and it appeared to be correct (120VAC between each hot and the neutral). But, upon further examination, I found that on my breaker box, the 120 hot legs are not in alternating positions. Occasionally, the same 120 circuit is located in consecutive slots … so instead of supplying 240 VAC, I was supplying two identical 120VAC circuits. Moved the breaker down a slot and the VFD powered up.

I used a shielded 4 conductor #12 wire (wrapped around and through a 5” ferrite toroidial core) between the VFD and spindle. However, I soon found that the wire was too large to solder to the spindle fitting. So, I soldered a short #18 gauge pigtail to the spindle fitting and used a terminal block to splice the cables together. As a side note, Keling informed me that a #16 or #18 gauge wire is adequate between the VFD and spindle.

Setting up the VFD introduced a new set of problems. With regards to the PDxxx parameters, I only changed a few of the factory defaults. The factory sets PD004 (base spindle frequency) & PD005 (maximum spindle frequency) to 50Hz. The 2.2Kw spindle is 400 Hz so those two parameters had to be changed. The VFD uses external control (0-10V) to control the speed with 0=OFF and 10=24,000rpm. However, when I hooked everything up, my spindle ran at only about 10% of the rated speed when controlled by the CNC4PC board. It ran at rated speed when the settings were put directly into the VFD. I verified the voltage of the control signals and did not find any issues.

After an extensive amount of reading and testing, I came upon parameter PD072 that is labeled in the manual as “Higher Analog Frequency”. It turns out that this parameter controls the range that the 0-10V control voltage operates in. So, if it is set to 50Hz (the default), then when the voltage is +10V, the frequency is set to 50Hz. Once I changed the parameter to 400Hz, the spindle operated correctly within 0-400Hz range.

I included the PDxxx parameters that I changed on the wiring diagram.

Well, that’s it for now … hopefully someone else will find this information helpful.

Joe, thanks for the info.

I have one comming with the same stlye fvd.

I went with the 3kw air cooled, but the vfd looks identical. Waiting for ups. lol

Sorry to bring up such an old thread, but I'm having trouble with the same 2.2 kW keling spindle.

When we try to start it, it just stutters and won't move. If we flick it during this time it will spin up to full speed and operate properly. It's just not starting correctly.

Andy advise?

keling can't provide you tech support?

That's a classic symptom of a three phase motor that is only receiving two phases. I'm surprised you aren't getting a VFD fault. Disconnect at the spindle, and check the continuity of the three phases at the spindle - you should get the same ohm reading across each of the three possible pairs of the three wires. If that passes, the spindle is okay, so reconnect at the spindle, and do the same check with the wires disconnected at the VFD, where you will probably find one wire that doesn't run through.

To understand you correctly, you're saying measure continuity to see that U, V and W are properly connected?

Actually, disconnect U,V,W, and measure the pairs of wires. If the resistance doesn't match (or likely, you find one wire that measures open), you know you have a problem. You want to confirm that the problem doesn't exist inside the spindle casing (in the windings), in which case the spindle is toast.