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#1
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Cutting the angle iron down with CerMet tipped circular saws
Moved from another thread:
David, Take a look at the Steelmax saw or the Morse Metal Devil. I looked at it following GregJ's suggestion and ended up buying one off eBay for a hundred bucks. You will simply not believe how well it works. It cuts 1/4 inch steel like butter. It is a fairly simple matter to rig up a jig to cut the rail down straight and then grind. It is one of those "how did I ever get by without that????????" tools. Check it out! |
#2
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David,
I second that. I couldn't grind a V edge to save my life, but cutting a straight, flat edge with a steel cutting "skill" saw was a piece of cake. |
#3
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I gave in and purchased one of the SteelMax circular saws from ebay. I managed to find an almost new one for $34 + $40 shipping. Thanks for the advice! david |
#4
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Update - I couldn't get 2"x1.25" angle from my steel supplier so I purchased a SteelMax circular saw as recommend by Marc and will setup a jig to cut it (hopefully) straight.
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#5
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David,
I bolted a 1"x1" angle to the bottom of the saw. Use it as a rip fence. |
#6
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Yep....drill two holes one size, larger size in the mating angle and bolt up parallel to blade. The better the set up...the better the end result.
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#7
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I think the saw gives a bigger risk of cutting the rail down too far. If something goes wrong, the jig should rather force the saw to go wider rather than narrower.
At the end, I would still use the grinder (with a thick disk) to get the final finish of the reference line. |
#8
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Cutting the angle iron down with a Steelmax, MetalDevil, Evolution or Triton TCT saw
Cut from another thread:
Here was the breakdown for my rails: * Build the skate: 2 hours * Cut the rails (35ft) with the SteelMax circular saw - 20 minutes * Grind the rails (35ft) with the skate -2 hours * Trip to home depot to replace dead grinder - 1 hour |
#9
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Interested how you cut the rails. Thanks, Greg |
#10
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David,
I am interested in your steel cutting saw setup as well. Pictures would be great. Did you cut to exactly the height you wanted or did you leave a little extra to grind with the skate to the exact height? |
#11
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The SteelMax saw has a rip fence with it. I just measured out carefully and then did a test run on another spare section of angle iron. I really can't imagine another, faster and accurate method based on the cost and time. The finish was nearly perfect - no burrs, gouges, etc. It also only cost me 70$ USD off ebay (including shipping). I called the company to give a testimonal and they even sent me an extra $45 blade. Highly recommend the SteelMax saw - you'll surely find use on this project and I'm sure other projects later.
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#12
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I cut them to the final 1.1" since the sake rides on the top of the rail, its nearly impossible to trim them down after the fact. If anyone in Houston, TX needs rails, let me know... |
#13
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Dave
What is the difference between the SeelMax saw and any other portable Skil type saw other than the blade. Could I just order a 7 1/4" SteelMax blade and use it on my portable wood cutting saw? Paul |
#14
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Paul,
I don't own a SteelMax but I understand that it spins the blade at a slower speed than your regular saw. |
#15
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Doug,
That would make sense in order to keep everything cooler, thanks. Anyone who has used one before. Does the saw spin with fewer rpm than a regular saw? Paul |
#16
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The SteelMax saw definitely turns slower. Also, the blade arbor is a different size that a typical 7.25" circular saw I'm sure to discourage exactly this. To each his own, but I personally would not try it. The saw is not that expensive if you watch eBay and it is an absolutely fantastic thing to have around if you anticipate doing any further metal work.
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#17
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Guess I am old fashion since I haven't broke down and bought one yet. From what I read on the hand held saws and the larger chop saw type, they do turn at a slower rpm and have more torque. Also the teeth on the blade are ground at a different angle than a wood saw blade (so the wood saw blades with carbide teeth will not work for cutting steel). I have some customers that swear by these saws and say that they cutt steel like butter and they even cutt when some of the blade teeth break off. Others customers that tried them and said after a few cutts the blade was gone and the blades are not cheap like the abrasive type blades. So they got rid of them and went back to the abrasive blades. Possibly the difference is either the brand of blades or maybe the way the operators are using them?
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#18
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Paul,
My experience with the Steelmax has been great. I cut every member of the MM with it and have nothing negative to comment on. The cuts are clean, the blades lasted a long time (approx. 2 or 3 blades, I forget), etc. I've also cut 2-7/8 drill pipe for table legs with ease. Cutting thin metal sheeting for building additions has also been nice. |
#19
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I am not that excited by the Steelmax. My first reservation is the safety of a handheld circular saw for steel. Is there any history of accidents with the blades cracking up or spilling off their teeth?
And then I don't believe the cut finish is good enough for the grinding skate - so it does not remove the need to grind the top and bevels of the rail. |
#20
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Comment on saw vs. cutting wheel.
The steelmax is a nice tool, but with all of them I find their can be errors / cut quality. I was keen to remember that we are machining a surface to a significantly high tolerance using very affordable and accesible means. The grinder with a cut wheel method does 2 things very important processes for us in the Mechmate world. 1 - makes certain that the cut is exactly from bottom of angle iron to top of "FLAT" surface is 1.1" or whatever you decide is the final resting height of your VEE. 2 - makes certain that your cut is exactly the right height because step #3 is grinding the VEE. This is a TOP reference grind that is most worlds is not standard practice. The MM method of using a top referenced grinding tool dictates that we have a smooth, regular and reliable top surface. If using the steelmax, I would still require you to grind it smooth after cutting to maintain tolerance. I guess the moral here your really not saving a lot of time to do the same process - but precision is paramount. ...my humble opinion. Sean |
#21
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Quote:
Quote:
I would really suggest getting a steel cutting circular saw for yourself. I would assume that you'd feel the same Greg and I feel after using it. Tell you what, if I build the second MechMate for a profit, I'll send you one free. |
#22
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I have not tried the Steelmax saw to cut rails. I was however very impressed when I cut 1/4" steel with Marc's, it's nothing like you think, very much under control, but safety glasses would definitely be a good idea.
My suggestion would be after cutting down the rails, use a caliper or micrometer and measure every 6" down the rail. If you are satisfied with that get the rail flat and slide a mill file down the cut just to see where it does or doesn't touch. If you are satisfied with that use the skate to cut the angles. If you are not satisfied use the skate to grind the rails flat. I was so impressed I bought several of the Steelmax 2802 model. |
#23
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Sliding a mill file down the edge will easily and quickly take care of my "finish quality" concern, if it is justified at all. So we can put that one to bed.
From what I hear, this thing cuts fast . . . . . . From my woodworking attempts, I have learnt that ripping a plank with a portable skilsaw is a hit & miss affair, so I am afraid that the rail may suddenly be gouged too deep by the Steelmax, thus ruining it completely. It doesn't strike me that an amateur metalworker bloke can trim a narrow angle iron down accurately with this vicious machine. Since I don't have the tiniest experience of a Steelmax (it is not sold here), I have to be cautious. And I want to guard against this forum sending a message that the Steelmax is essential for for building a MechMate. Could someone post a photo of the fence they rigged up on their Steelmax? |
#24
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The steelmax comes with its own fence maybe 10" to 12" long. It fastens to the saw's bottom plate in 2 places. I see how this could have its degree of accuracy, however I have been using a circular saw most of my life. Even today I don't like having to use one I am not use to...
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#25
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Quote:
I made my own using 1"x1"x1/8" angle. When I get home tonight, let me search my photo's and I'll post a picture. |
#26
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The SteelMax circular saw cuts .25" angle at about the rate of 20-30 seconds per linear foot.
Quote:
So, I think the comment about the "amateur metalworker" may be accurate - it's very much about skill. Sure, some tools make skill nearly irrelevant but even cheap tools can, with enough time and focus, made to produce an end result just as good as something produced with a "professional' tool. I personally feel that if someone takes the time to setup the SteelMax rip fence properly and lock it down (~5 minutes), that there is no reason that someone with the most basic skills can do this. I might even say that non-metal working people might feel more comfortable with the "circular saw" than the grinder as it is something they have familiarity with. Quote:
Quote:
YouTube Video of Rail Cutting with the Steel Max Saw: http://www.youtube.com/v/PWUCXcj3a8E I am extending an offer to anyone who wants it - if you want a 1ft sample section of the rail, PM me and I will send it to you for $10 (US domestic only). Gerald, if you'd like a section, just PM your address and I'll sent it to you free of charge. If you'd like to try out a SteelMax saw, find one on eBay (or any other retailer), buy it and I will re-ship it to you free. |
#27
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Two questions on the steelmax.
#1 How did you clamp or hold the angle straight while cutting? When I cutt my x rails with a grinder I had to lay a 10" channel on the forklift + a 1/4" x 12" flat steel on top of the channel, and prop the ends up so that everything was straight and level before cutting since most every piece of steel has some degree of curve. I take it your standing or clamping the angle up on it's edge in a vice, or tack welding it to a table of sort that is straight? #2 After purchasing the steel angle iron + the steelmax aren't you above the cost of the aluminum angle and premade hardened rail which would be straighter, harder and have more surface area than the DYI rails? |
#28
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Quote:
Quote:
Prices listed below assume a table size of 4'x8'. My total cost to produce rails was:
If any of my numbers are off or if I missed anything (for either system), please feel free to post corrections. Quote:
variability, it would have been in the hot rolled steel main channels - now those are NOT "completely" flat (as in cold drawn Al). So, I would have put really flat Al on top of a not so flat leg of hot rolled steel. Either way, according this this post http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...38&postcount=2 it won't be better than .005" without special measures. That post also points out that the accuracy of the rail comes not from the rail itself but the Al angle itself - so this then comes down to how good of a job the builder did when they cut down the Al rail. I would buy the harder since Superior Bearing says it's hardened (though no reference is provided to the level of hardening) - if you paid the extra money for them. I'm assuming it to be harder than standard mild steel. As to the "more surface area" - could you elaborate? I'm assuming we are talking about T3 from the following chart: I have no issue with the Al rails - if someone was worried about the steel rails or just didn't want to fuss with it, I surely wouldn't try to stop them. There are cost, tool and skill differences here and it doesn't appear there is one good obvious option. As I've offered before - I'm happy to sell pre-ground rail, local pickup in Houston, TX, USA (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749) |
#29
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Here's the pic promised. I couldn't find the original 1"x1" angle, so I placed some scrap 1"x1" to show the configuration. I just made a rip fence on the bottom of the saw using the 1"x1". I bolted the angle to the bottom where you see two holes. There's another set of holes at the "top" that are difficult to see. It worked rather well. SteelMax 4.jpg |
#30
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Did you run the fence against the 1.1" side, or against the off-cut side? If ever I went the Steelmax route, I would probably run the fence against the off-cut and then then finish the 1.1" with the grinder.
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