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  #61  
Old Fri 20 November 2009, 04:42
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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(It took me a while to spot the "shop-made polycarbonate square")
My mistake as I unintentionally skipped the photo when I was editing the post
Here’s Nicer photo of it :
Polycarbonate_square.jpg

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments…it’s a nice motivator !
Unbelievable the gain of respect I now have for metal working…. I personally underestimated A LOT the required time to make project that size. Not that it is that much big, just I personally never done such one as this all alone !.....did I ever said …I really love this

More to come soon as I lack time to edit !
Amicalement, Robert
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  #62  
Old Sat 21 November 2009, 07:45
zenair10
Just call me: mario
 
shawinigan Qc
Canada
hi Roberts!!!
good works,,,,looks very nice
i have a question for you,where did you get the laser cuts and profiles bending? that's look well and what about this précision?
thank's Mario!





on a une shop ici a nicolet mais je sais pas pour les petites quantités.
je connaissais le proprio mais il a vendu a un autre donc?????
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  #63  
Old Sat 21 November 2009, 20:25
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Ok guys, another overdue update….

This rail making was actually one of the first steps done in September. Back then I’ve spent nearly a week worth of work trying to accomplish these rails ….. Oh man…what a miserable adventure it was for me!...
Not actually grinding them, but because I bought what I’d say “a cheaper than cheap…. A real wrong grinder purchase !”

At the end, it boils down to confirm a very old wise recommendation I usually to go buy, but got bitten again for not following it !!
I’m talking about….You’re never poor enough to buy cheap tools!...be frugal…that’s all ok and even mandatory…BUT NOT CHEAP…it will cost ya !
This got so true in this rail making adventure !!!
what a pita…. Not the making of the rail by them self, oh no, this freeken grinder made me loose all this time !

first, the rough cut…. Somehow it got fine after some &?%$%$@# with a bracket mod
No_go_rs.jpg

My bracket did not clear the angle Iron for the 1st cut…My mistake forgot to look at update recommendation on rails…MAX 2” height…Dooo
So went back in the shop and quickly improvised to make another support …

Tempo_plate_3rs.jpg

and then started to get some fun going –on as you can see, fun it was…

But after that….some more cursing went on as mistake over mistake started hunting me !
The grinder I bought, over full yr before this making, was initially bought on sale (60% off) for this rail making..
This marketed “mid-quality” grinder was confirm to me by some other fellow Canadian MM builders whom have use it for their rail making, it went fine for them and did ok for their rail making ??!!
Well, all but fine for me !
After my 1st attempt on rough cutting ( 2 afternoons for me )The grinder initially had some acceptable vibration due to unbalance & off center cheep mechanism that only got worse, to a point of those bad vibration slowly unscrewing some OEM mounting screw and strip it’s threads….darn ! (strip holding screw) and almost ruin a rail job by grabbing a chunk of the rail!

Grinder_hungry_rs.jpg

Sooo…. after some re-threading for some bigger screws, got bitten by another screw screwing with me
Screw_star-head_gone-rs.jpg

by stripping the star head, finally got back to grinding to a smoother flat surface so I can tackle the angle stage making ( yep, had to re-surface the pair of rails to a new lower level, 27.5mm, since one of them got taken a chunk off…$%#@?&#%%$

But hold on ….not so fast….my grinder had in mind of its own…
Yep that’s right, it seem to have a malicious mind of its own, a real sh## disturber !
Another pitfall…. The single bearing design were the disc holding is keeping everything all together by some miracle, went kaput !

Grinder_bearing_kapoot-rs.jpg

It could not take the forces applied as this shaft is not supported at the other end, meaning only that single small bearing (6000) is holding this shaft on its axis and at the end of that shaft, it is left without any support or bushing.
Also, that same shaft must have some out of roundness / misalignment of such as it tend to wear grinding disc in a constant uneven mater
Un-even_wear_rs.jpg
creating more unbalance vibration as disc wear goes on, to only creating more stress in this bearing, which in turn is only a matter a short time before it all goes KAPUT …. again!!

So, after replacing the bearing with a better SKF, as I was mounting it, one of the bearing retaining screw head….well… breaks !%&?@!!! Leaving the screw in its thread without any head….more delay…after all, I needed that !!!

Bearing_retaining_screw-broke_rs.jpg

What a saga this was
All & all, making rail by them self isn’t not so bad, once you have made some….that is with a descent quality grinder !
I can see & recommend a trial run would be very beneficial experience before tackling the final angle iron. Testing your set up first on a scrap always become beneficial at the long run !!

DIY rail making….would I re-do some….Me!!!!, personally Nop….get someone else to do it vs sub this out…of course!.
Pay a machine shop for this, no way!!!! Just too easy for any DIY… when equipped & once you have done some practice run
For me, just no worth my time & money as I run a little business where my time is more valuable, but well worth it if you can get reasonably prices quality labor… And a ½ descent grinder !

Some other various shots as I was making those rails !...Enjoy, Robert

Rail tab

Rail_tap_rs.jpg

Rail bending after

Rail_tab_bend-rs.jpg

Some late knight overtime work...

Making_Rails_Late-night_2rs.jpg

...and all finito
All_rails_fine&ok-rs.jpg
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  #64  
Old Sat 21 November 2009, 20:44
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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MARIO…
As for precision on laser cut part, I’ll repeat what Gerald said many time…all fine and even impressive !!
Got my parts from a source nearby Boucherville.
It is most likely there is a few laser cutting shops in your area ( Trois rivière, Victo, …) Here, I found one for you check this LINK, this guy is in victo, but get the parts done at a huge, very huge laser cut parts player in Quebec called CBR.
But CBR does not bent …Only cuts....
so don’t think cutting this Victo guy thinking you may get it cheaper…na…This guy in Victo has a business agreement / exchange with CBR. They do the bending, CBR cuts !!

Anyway, look up in your local industrial listing, you may actually be very surprise how many shops can do this…
Just a few weeks ago I found a water jet cutting service in a shop that theri name & advertisement is…WELDING ….nothing to do with water jet cutting ???
Amicalement, Robert
Envoy moi tes messages par Messagerie interne personnel ( Private Message PM )!
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  #65  
Old Sun 22 November 2009, 13:52
Atifeh
Just call me: Nader
 
Tehran
Iran
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Robert,

Thank you for the very well documented approach on your rail cutting. Your persistency in solving the problem is admirable.

Your shop-made square is a very good idea. I am thinking of making one with this addition: place a few LED's inside it and make a light pipe. Then the edges of the square which are opaque will illuminate and might give a better edge distinction. Just an idea.
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  #66  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 19:47
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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another little mod I did !!

Hi all…
Things are on a halt for the past couple of weeks, other work priorety had to take place, even on my « evening time »… Pita !!!
BUT…took time for this :
Here is another little mod I did, change the Y-car dummy idler (M1 30 222) & bushing ( M1 30 224) in order to fit with one of those skate bearings (6001). We all buy 8 of them for the skate… and do not use them for anymore to the project….It only seem coherent with this wise & frugal approach to this project !!!

Cad_drawing_1rs.jpg

So… All & all, in a “hand-push” dynamic test, all seem fine, but only the long run test will tell !!

PB200006-rs.jpg

Here if the bearing isn’t push all in, I want to wait till paint is done before doing so !

PB200005-rs.jpg

Hope you like this Gerald …
Later...Amicalement, Robert
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  #67  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 23:23
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The mod is okay, but it looks unfinished with surplus metal points. Some 2 minute sketches:

I would personally not recycle the grind skate bearings because they could have been damaged by the grinding dust.
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  #68  
Old Wed 25 November 2009, 06:39
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Gerald,
As I’m certain your keen « eagle » eyes has notice it from some of my previous post photos these mods I did !!!
I went with the arc cut approach ( same as your middle draft ), in part cause esthetics as I tried to keep it as close to original design, and part to give it another reason / use for it.
This other reason is to allow, for some if they value the need for it, to go with a bigger motor gear, IE; say 35t. ( clearence issue )
Back then ( nearly 2yrs ago) when I amuse my time to draw those drawing / changes, we were merely speaking of transmission with reduce ratios. Now to some it may seems a must !!
We were also trying to keep it simple and some prefer simply having other gear size to change vs having to make or by plates & accessories to make a reduce ratio trany.
Anyway, that is why you may have notice those cress / arc cut in my plates ( gantry & Y-car). I thought good to have this option to go with 35T or + to start ( for those who would need or want a higher resolution) and then, after fome time your Mechmate has run, make your own trany if your needs call for one.
Cheaper to start buy buying gears as starters to make this test than invest in the hole reduction trany approach…but I also comprehend the end result is not the same either…that is why you may also have notice or seen in the past that I too have drawings to support making my own trany ?
Only after my build is completed, running and I got some experience with it I can call for its real need, even if some have shown to this groop the benefit of it, the benefit is as good as a need calls for it !!
simply though of it as an alternative to suite some needs, if ever it is needed.... !!

Merci, amicalement Robert
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  #69  
Old Wed 25 November 2009, 09:19
normand blais
Just call me: Normand
 
montreal
Canada
Salut Robert ,Gerald Tres belle machine que tu fabrique la .Domage pour le grinder ça ralenti son homme . As tu aussi brisé l'autre petit B&D grinder ou tu veut l'épargné pour le musée Pense tu déménagé avant de monter ta machine ,Si t'organise une journée porte ouverte informe moi ..Faudrai bien que je fasse le pelerinage pour aller voir un MM prendre vie. C'est beaucoup de question et je trouve pas le point d'interrogation sur ce clavier.a+
Normand
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  #70  
Old Wed 25 November 2009, 10:00
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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NORM !!!!
Hey..psss…point d’intéro = shift + 6
Grinder B & D…pas de repos pour cette bête de travaille…. Mon 1e grinder y’a plus d’20 ans…and keeps on sparking
Bin du trouble avec l’intention et de me trouvé place pour déménager….
Pour ces raison et autres que ma version de la bête et visable / démontable….elle prendra ces 1e pas ici même !!
Tu s’ai que tu es le bienvenu en tout temps, simplement appel d’avance…
See you soon you crazy baboon
Amicalement, Robert
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  #71  
Old Wed 25 November 2009, 11:56
normand blais
Just call me: Normand
 
montreal
Canada
?bien oui c'est sur. Peut etre ja poussiere dans mes lunette, le point mort dand mon champ de vision ,ou ste clavier d'alien avec 8 icones sur la touche 6 . Pareillement grande dents
j'tapelle
Normand
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  #72  
Old Mon 30 November 2009, 21:31
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Talking Hybrid…the spider with a neck!!!

Hi boys....
Well, now is the right time to let out what I timidly tried on my own
another alternative / approach / type of bracket for the Z-slide transmission support ( #10 40 434).
It combine the spring bracket ( 10 40 386) that usually mount on the Y-car.
This design as it is has no provision with several holes in order to compensate for those various spring lengths or “pressure”, BUT can easily be added / modified if needed for mass “sharing” !!
Anyway, it’s Just for fun sake (and maybe science…naaaa not me…a modest woodworker ! ) an maybe offer another alternative to a simpler MM builds in the future…only if Gerald approves !!

PRT_screen-B_1040434-rs.jpg

My work Steps to install & weld it was a little in disorder as I lacked taking a few minutes to prep a step by step work approach…. had a rough day of work then and…well… some brain fades mixed with the need to finish it ASAP to end my day ( it was a late nigh thing again ! )!...a recipe to only attract delays and mistakes !!

Anyway, Started by welding the bushing & nuts first and then this new bracket

Spider_1rs.jpg

Needed these squares in order to make those 1st tack weld as it is not self supported and also had some little mistakes by the laser / bent shop which passed through my attention when I pick up all those parts…. Last june 2008 !!!
Once welded in place

Spider_6rs.jpg
Spider_7rs.jpg

The idea of verifying if the spider bushings are laying flat came to me … well a bit late, but again, it’s never too late to dbl check !
Although before welding any of these on this spider, I double check the spider for its flatness and had to do some minor adjustment as per recommended by Gerald ( here a link to it )

Anyway, after welding my prototype, I got disappointed to discover one bushing already welded was 0.55mm shorter as per my filler gauges

Spider_8-rs.jpg

Well…some my say… only 0.55mm…tolerable !! NOP !!
Look what happens when I push down this corner…
Spider_9-rs.jpg
major off alignment !
So…all welded, +/- 10 pm, no one at this time nor nearby to surface grind this at this time and the conviction to finish it that same night…
I used one wing of my jointer with some 100G sandpaper + some low tack spray adhesive to the back of this paper as my low-tech level grinder….

Spider_11rs.jpg

works nicely as I’ve done this several time in the past on other projects

Marked the bushing with a marker

Spider_12rs.jpg

After a couple passes, check what work was needed to be done

Spider_13rs.jpg

notice lower left bushing…not scratched yet !
After several strokes ( +/- 20 passes) =

Spider_14rs.jpg

And the final result after +/- 30min of total time

Spider_15rs.jpg

…not bad for a poor man surface grinder !!
Now I know it is perfect and ready to receive those nice V-bearings !

Z-Slide-Assy_5rs.jpg
Z-Slide-Assy_6rs.jpg

Well… enough said for today…hard day of work and it’s late for me !
Gerald....Hope you like this....
More to come another time !

Later, Amicalement, Robert
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  #73  
Old Mon 30 November 2009, 21:40
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
Looks good

Looks good .
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  #74  
Old Mon 30 November 2009, 22:04
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
thats really good.
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  #75  
Old Mon 30 November 2009, 23:11
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
In your last picture, I see that the back end of your stepper motor is open. I suggest that you cover that hole with tape because sawdust in there will be direct onto the non-sealed bearing. (We have destroyed bearings like that already).
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  #76  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 04:33
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Thanks for the advise Gerald, Will most defiantly do….. just haven’t had time for this important « stepp » yet !....just not there among zillion things to do….. ( Shop work, office work, visiting potential customer, drawing & planing new orders, visiting source supplier, getting ready for the X-mas period business wise, trying to find desperately a new business location and that one alone is consuming alot, fixing daily oups & darn…. and that is only 50% of thing to do !!! )….. And oh ya, make some orders / customers furniture……

BTW Gerald, what is your appreciation on this “spider neck” approach, Robert
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  #77  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 05:01
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
I prefer to stay silent on your spider neck.
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  #78  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 06:03
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Robert,
Nice work. But is it really necessary? While your solution to a "problem" that didn't exist appears to add cost and time to the build. I don't understand why you would add the complexity to an already complex part.

Sean
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  #79  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 07:31
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Sean,
I must point out, I did this out of curiosity not as a solution to a none exiting problem…no problem reported on the existing bracket…..
I did this mostly to see if there could be a future interest as an alternative (to see/look outside of the box…remember !).
BTW, no real complexity, just a additional neck that “magically grew ” from the already needed spring bracket (#10 40 386)
It just seem more in sink to me ( from a none engineer simple woodworker) for a tensioning spring not to elongate because of the Z travels… Simple not complicated, but defiantly not complex or needed
Just a little more….mmmm….hassles to weld if you like it to be line, but their again, not needed to square it !
It was defiantly fun to do & look at it done !
Amicalement, Robert
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  #80  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 07:39
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
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Robert I like your idea. If it is cut to incorporate the motor mount and the spring mount (in one piece ... and I think it is) it will make welding the mount much easier and I don't see any real expense ........... good idea Will you pm me the dxf file???

Last edited by J.R. Hatcher; Tue 01 December 2009 at 07:44..
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  #81  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 09:14
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Thanks JR !
Here’s other views of it !

rme_1040434-B_rs.jpg

Spider_2rs.jpg

Amicalement, Robert
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  #82  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 10:41
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
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What if the motor mount \ spring holder was completely flat and without the fancy taper, and we cut a slot in the spider then feed it through and weld it in place??? Now that would be . Think how easy that would be to align. Of coarse, we will need to check for any fouls.
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  #83  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 11:12
Claudiu
Just call me: Claus #43
 
Arad
Romania
Hi Rob,

I wrote is already once but my message got lost somehow.
I like the...absolutely clean work you did and also the new feature for the tension Spring.
Admireable is the courage for trying a new approach.

Of course time will tell if the new part will be reliable under full working condition as with any Prototype. Who knows maybe it will bend sideways and we can go back to the good old construction? But the "Give it a try" is the way to go and to have personal challenge and confidence.

Respect
Claus
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  #84  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 12:05
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
Laser part

That part looks great, but it is going to cost alot more to make it as it will take up more room on the nest.
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  #85  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 17:31
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
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So if the original cost $3.00 what will this one cost ......?... $8.00, now subtract the cost of the other spring holder - $2.00 .... I think it will be worth $6.00. Sure will line up good
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  #86  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 20:05
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
Cost

Dont get me wrong it is a nice design and it looks great, But I would probably add another $20.00 to $30.00 to make it. It will add alittle more to the nest and it will add two breaks that can not be formed using a standard cnc back gauge , It will need to be laid out by hand and then formed on the lines by eye 14 times , Not a big jump in price , The part that is used now to hold the spring and the motor mount are about $1.60 for both. But as I said before it is a great looking build
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  #87  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 21:05
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
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Leo please check out post #82. If it will work this way then it wouldn't have any breaks.
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  #88  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 21:29
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
keyed

Yes , I did not see that before. Yes you could add some tabs to the motor mount for alignment. I would have to take a closer look , but that would be a breeze to do.
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  #89  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 21:38
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
Robert

Robert how much tension do you have on that spring? The distance it is stretched and the angle that it is at ,it looks like it might not have enough tension on it to keep the motor pulled up tight enough. Or it may just be a lot stronger spring than I am using.
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  #90  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 09:41
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
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Copied from another thread:

. . . . . I took a look at my machine and realized the "motor mount/spring holder" will not work flat because it will foul the router, therefore I agree with Gerald and Leo, it is too complicated for the improvement it makes. . . . . . .
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