MechMate CNC Router Forum

Go Back   MechMate CNC Router Forum > General - MM Build
Register Options Profile Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old Thu 16 July 2009, 08:12
lunaj76
Just call me: Justin #24
 
Littleton, (Colorado)
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to lunaj76
Dog House from the BFN (Beta Fabrication Network)

Posts copied from elsewhere:

Some of you might want to check this out.

http://www.physicaldesignco.com
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ALDO 1.jpg (82.5 KB, 390 views)
File Type: jpg ALDO 2.jpg (93.6 KB, 389 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Thu 16 July 2009, 08:25
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
COOL. Thanks for the link.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Fri 17 July 2009, 17:45
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
Anyone who is trying to establish a CNC router business really needs to check out this link that Justin posted a few days ago.

http://www.physicaldesignco.com

This company was started by an architectural graduate student from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The company has three types of memberships. 1) Customer 2) Fabricator (CNC router owner) 3) Designer.

Designers submit designs that, if approved, are loaded into the website. Customers modify the designs using Google Sketchup. The Physical Design Co then takes the customers' modified designs and uses a special software that creates CAD files that are given to the fabricator to cut. I'm guessing that money will change hands somewhere along the line but that point isn't clear. I don't know if the customer pays the company and the fabricator or what. Right now, being a fabricator doesn't cost anything and who knows what kind of business might present itself in the future.

The website has a map to all of the CNC router owners so the customer can select one near them.

I sent an email to the CEO of the company and asked about joining. Below is a quote from his response to me.

"Dear Doug,

Physical Design Co is actively seeking and accepting members who own and operate CNC machines and who would be interested in becoming a part of our network of fabricators. We currently have a Beta Fabricator Network in which we're working closely with folks like yourself to establish a working relationship and to fine tune the communication and production process.

Joining the BFN is simple and free - we first ask that you sign a couple of NDAs and after which we send you predetermined CNC cut files from a few of our designs (a doghouse, a storage shed, and a kid's playhouse, and an artist's studio) which you can cut out and assemble yourself. We only ask that you document the process and provide feedback to us regarding the ease of fabrication and assembly."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Fri 17 July 2009, 17:55
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
This link is one of the projects shown on the Physical Design Company's website. The Architectural Department at MIT built a small house based on an architectural style used extensively in New Orleans. It is cut entirely from 3/4" plywood and uses no fasteners of any kind. I think one of the sites claimed they used 600 sheets of plywood that were cut on 2 Shopbots over a period of two weeks.

http://www.physicaldesignco.com/proj...ents_moma.html

One of the grad student that worked on this project started the Physical Design Co.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Fri 17 July 2009, 22:02
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Do we perhaps need a new section on the forum for discussion networks of producers / designers / clients / sales ?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Sat 18 July 2009, 02:33
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Doug,

Months ago, I followed up on the Physical Design Company's program. I have signed the NDAs and was sent some design information. I like the basis of the idea. The problem I had was that I did not have the money necessary to build the 3 models you need to build. Some of the model require an out lay of $5000 or more for the plywood. I am not in the position to do that.

I think the concept is good. It is simiular to the ShopBot 1000 Garages but they do not require you be a shopbot person. They also have designs that have been built.

I am looking for ways I can find avenues that will help me grow a business will I continue to market myself.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Sat 18 July 2009, 08:54
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
Gerald: That might be a good idea.

Nils: Thanks for the info. I'm not that far along in the registration process. I don't have $5000 to spend on something like that nor do I have the room to set up an artist's studio, tools shed, etc. Hmmmm... I may have to rethink this.

On a positive note, a few days ago, I got a call from a guy here in town who wanted me to cut some plywood for him. He had found me by Googling "CNC router Arkansas" and found this website with my name. Then he looked me up in the phone book.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Sat 18 July 2009, 10:07
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Doug,

That is good to hear.

I will keep you posted if they send me anything that changes the requirements for the initial test. They want to test if the parts will fit. One project took, I think it was 35 pieces of plywood. It is expensive even for a company that has a profit going.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Sat 18 July 2009, 10:37
lunaj76
Just call me: Justin #24
 
Littleton, (Colorado)
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to lunaj76
Nils,

The dog house took 3 sheets of OSB at less than 8 buck at the HD, the garden shed will take 25 sheets but I need one anyway. So for 200 in material I can have a 5'x8' shed. Where are you getting 5000? You can sell one of each mill. So put it on Creigs list for what you have in material. I think that it is an excellent opportunity.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 16:46
Besser
Just call me: Besser
 
Vic
Australia
Gerald, I think we do (post #119). MM's are a tool and not everyone has something like this but people certainly want the output these great tools can produce. I think having a network of producers and designers then promoting the outcomes (designs) would be great (and a revenue stream for you).

In Oz we pay a fortune for childrens cubby houses and the designs are limited on scale. Having a sales portal for RETAIL clients would work.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Tue 01 December 2009, 22:51
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
I have been having some correspondence with a MM member who was prompted by the above posts and felt that we needed a "sales" section on our site, something similar to http://www.100kgarages.com/.

My initial reply was: I think that there are too few MechMate owners (and they are spread too wide) to sustain a special section on the forum for selling their services. (Even the 100kgarages, with thousands of Shopbots, is not really getting off the ground).

What is happening at our forum already, very small-scale, are "service-seekers" seeing the towns in which there are completed MM's and then making contact with those builders.

I can make a special Market Place for selling our services, but I would have to restrict that to serial numbered MM's.....I already have too much of a problem with non-MechMaters wanting to advertise themselves at our site.

Let's discuss this in public . . . . .
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 05:44
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
In

Im in .
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 07:07
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
Send a message via Yahoo to Robert M Send a message via Skype™ to Robert M
Well….Gerald,
In my opinion, we should foremost ask you if you are ready to manage ANOTHER topic place on this Forum?
After all, you already have a lot to deal within us…. Can only imagine the zoo this new thread place can create….but that is yours….. and I admire you a lot for all the work you give back to this community you started….I’ll speak for myself, I could not manage what you give us in conjunction with my work & family life….SO I CAN ONLY bow to your time given, patient, and so on….

Well…as for this referral, I’m not certain we will benefit of it VS the time we(you mostly) would spend taking care of the “traffic & question” it can /will generate !....
my opinion and not saying no, just….. ????
Amicalement, Robert
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 07:16
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Robert, There are lots of people here to help out.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 08:05
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
I think this idea is socially and economically incompatible with this site. The need is for a generic, bespoke, small-scale CNC services marketplace that is independent of the specific machine designs used to provide those services. Within such a marketplace, you can certainly argue that your machine is a differentiator. The MM brand would imply that you have certain skills and capabilities.

Part of the problem with sites like 100kGarage / Ponoko / physicaldesignco are the relatively narrow range of designs and materials they support, the strong branding to particular machines and the inherent attempt to prematurely create an intermediated commodity market.

If I were to attempt such a marketplace, I think I'd start by creating a simple template for machine owners to base their offerings on. The goal would be to objectively and briefly describe their capabilities - what's the type of machine, size of the work cube, range of cutters supported, available KW of the machine head, proven accuracy of the machine, proven materials cut, materials willing to attempt at buyer's risk, typical turnaround time, and extra services (design, delivery, materials supply, cutter supply, ...), etc. Note that this isn't meant to be comprehensive or exclusive - it's meant to encourage service providers to describe themselves in a fashion convenient to service purchasers without confusing the capabilities of a shop with the brand of the machines therein.

Once you've established the rough boundaries for the service description, you can consider posting them in a variety of places. An argument can certainly be made for using a craigslist like local service as well as attempting various degrees of centralisation or globalisation. The more central solutions add the complexity of capturing and representing geographic areas and markets served - and require a much larger group of participants to gain critical mass.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that if we're going to push for such a Forum topic, it's better placed at a CNCZone than at a specific machine build site. If a MechMate providers thread develops within that Forum, and comes to represent a special quality level, all the better. But it will have a far larger and more appropriate audience than here.

Of course, in an ideal world, we'd get the existing semi-commercial sites mentioned above to recognise the value of supporting independents with one-off machine designs as well.

Whew, that's a little less balanced than I usually shoot for, so let me close with IMHO, YMMV, argue back please!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 08:43
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
sales

I think a sales section would wind up being alot like the market section is now. A list of people in different areas of the world that will provide services.
I dont think it would be very busy unless someone puts in some work to do some site linking and a little promo work. As far as brands I dont think that plays in here from the customers point of view. Though the site may pick up a few more builders from it. I still think it would be a good ideal And yes it could wind up being alot of work for nothing. But nothing ventured nothing gained.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 09:38
servant74
Just call me: Jack
 
Nashville (Tennessee)
United States of America
A forum like this is great for builders, and even 'makers', but to meld the two, a 'wisiwyg' gui kind of thing may be outside the scope of this forum. Not saying it should not be done. (a gui design tool for non-G-code readers/non-DXF generator users, that would allow users to submit design proposals in graphic form would be great addition to the usability of CNC by non-techies. But I know that is out of my area of expertise, and probably most on this forum. Not that it could or should not be done.)

IMHO, either another link on the main page for 'maker' kinds of things, and to help match makers with running MM builder/users (if they want to be listed). A link up like google maps is being used on 100kgarages.com would be a good thing too.

I think the 100Kgarages would be a great place for MMers to be listed, but they are in with ShopBot folks and I am not sure they are willing to open up to others, at least not yet.

Overall, getting 100kgarages to allow MMers to be listed too would probably be the best thing. Then possibly a link to 100kgarages.com from the mechmate.com entry screen as a great place for 'makers' (users that are not builders) to go.

100K has already obtained quite a bit of press, so using that facility and not building a competitor might be best.

Just random thoughts....
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 12:11
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Setting up such a section on this forum would really be a trivial thing to do, if it is based on the current Market Place, and it is limited to registered MM owners. In addition, I can host a set of non-forum pages at mechmate.com that are optimised for search engines, but someone else will have to design them.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 12:39
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
I have been having some correspondence with a MM member who was prompted by the above posts and felt that we needed a "sales" section on our site, something similar to http://www.100kgarages.com/.
Thanks Gerald, I brought it up to you via pm because I wanted you to have the opportunity to think through the ramifications. It's easy for me to volunteer you to administer another forum.

Do I expect that we'll be overrun with customers? No, but I do think that we'll benefit from having a registry.

I also think that the registry would be a good way to build awareness with the 100kgarages folks that the universe is bigger than shopbot. If we could get included by them, we could perhaps phase the MechMate registry out.

FWIW, I've created a google "my maps" with a couple of pins representing a few users as an example.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...2626dc42de&z=3

Last edited by lumberjack_jeff; Wed 02 December 2009 at 12:46..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 12:40
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Jack,

I don't think 100k garages is going to allow any other machine besides shopbot to participate since if I understand correctly it is from shopbot.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 12:58
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
Their site suggests that they are independent from shopbot, and that they only standardize because of quality control reasons.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 13:17
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
I dont know if you guys have seen it but the cnczone already has a site for this.

http://rfqwork.com/

They advertise it all over there site. I dont know how much traffic it gets but its there.


I would love to see a show off section with business website attached. I love seeing what others have cut and give me motivation to keep ordering parts.

Last edited by Regnar; Wed 02 December 2009 at 13:33..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 20:12
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
ShopBot got rid of me 3 years ago (link) and there is no chance they are going allow MechMate alongside their machine. Let's not go into that any further.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 20:47
lunaj76
Just call me: Justin #24
 
Littleton, (Colorado)
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to lunaj76
Physical Design has since joined with 100k garages. I would love to give back a little and pay for a section that drives potential clients to my web site or contact info (no web site yet). I would really like to know if there is a demand for people wanting there designs cut and just cant find anyone to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 22:08
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
and there is no chance they are going allow MechMate alongside their machine.
Then I guess we need to roll our own.

... DIY is kind of why we all came here in the first place.

The question becomes where and how it should be implemented.

I think there's a need for a device-agnostic geographic registry for people offering cnc routing services.

Personally, I think the overhead created by the 100k garages commerce administration and the technological hurdles implicit in the requirement for physical design to create cut files of customer-modified drawings are unnecessary.

Those who want a sign, or a boat, or a piece of flat-pack furniture are already comfortable with computer drawing tools, and I know we are comfortable creating our own cutting files.

If we want it to be inclusive of all machines, there's a good argument that it should eventually be a part of cnc zone... or at least prominently promoted there.

Although my eventual goal would be an "open to all" site, perhaps even with modest web page hosting for the owner of the machine;
e.g. http://www.cncrouterweb.com/LumberjackCNC

...maybe it doesn't need to start there. Perhaps a simple sub-section here as a peer to the marketplace with a sticky post at the top linking to the Google map of machines in the registry.

There are MechMates here which easily exceed the capabilities of the average Shop bot. There are Joes 4x4's which easily exceed the capabilities of the average "Buddy". 100k garages and Physical Design are missing an opportunity by pandering to SB, without gaining anything in actual quality delivered to the customer.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 22:51
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
You will quickly bump into the issue of who you will allow as members. If you have a site that does free (or low-cost) advertising then you quickly get swamped by the pro companies and your little one-man business is out on the sidelines. (Eg. even the huge Igus corporation deems it worthwhile to present themselves at MechMate)

Would you want to keep out the guys owning table top mills in their bedrooms, or the guys owning 3 Thermwoods and a staff of 10? What about the guys doing CNC lathe work for metal parts? Etc. Etc.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Thu 03 December 2009, 09:15
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
One thing I do like about the 100k garages site is the ability to display pins on the map by capability (although there aren't nearly enough categories). If you need boat parts cut, you can filter out the vendors who don't have 4x8 routing capability.

At risk of sounding flippant, the marker on the map is the same size whether you're a guy making signs in your bedroom or a big operation. If the small vendor has the capabilities that the customer needs, the site simply enables the customer to know who is nearby so they can do their research. If anything, it makes it harder for the big guys to differentiate themselves.

I think the key piece is giving the customer the tools to filter the list, in natural language. "I want someone who can make 8' long wooden columns, 12" diameter". The customer doesn't know what that means in terms of number of axes or work envelope or speed or manufacturer names. "Thermwood? A rotational 'z' axis? What's that?"

Once the site has filtered the list, using the customer's natural language query, the customer can click on the geographically nearest pin to begin research. That pin will have the website of the vendor to learn what differentiates him from the competition.

The site would have to gather enough information about the advertiser's (vendor's) capabilities to enable that filtration to occur.

... but I'm getting ahead of myself.

I think the simple and easy v0.1 solution is filling out the google map with the locations of numbered mechmates, and posting that sticky link on the forum.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Fri 04 December 2009, 08:58
servant74
Just call me: Jack
 
Nashville (Tennessee)
United States of America
One thing they have is a place for 'makers' to post requests, and the 'manufacturers' can go to bid on making things.

This allows the big and little guys to offer to make things, and they can compete on quality, service, and price. But if you don't pay attention and bid, you don't get the work.

Manufacturers can also ask the makers questions to clarify specifications.

I did try posting something to be made, but I found most of the manufacturers don't read what was written. They re-ask what was already there, or did not communicate that they understood sufficiently what I had requested. ... What I had was making was not probably the best for CNC manufacture without communicating in drawings rather than verbaly/text. .. Not communicating better on my part I think caused quotes to come in higher than my budget could handle. But that was just my experience.

The result is, having a way for folks to post specifications, drawings, sketchup models, etc, are all good ways to communicate. No all makers may have expertise to do DXF and trusting someone elses g-code on your machine may be problematic/risky.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Register Options Profile Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody from Canada selling pre made parts, and what should I expect to spend? Mitch_1 Introduce yourself and start planning 4 Fri 06 November 2009 10:07
Mcmaster not selling outside US kanankeban The Market Place 35 Wed 25 February 2009 16:04
Suppliers of components & services around the world (including laser kits) Gerald_D General - MM Build 44 Sat 19 April 2008 18:31
Programming Services duluthboats The Market Place 5 Sat 02 February 2008 22:16


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.