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  #31  
Old Thu 04 October 2007, 21:26
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
I am in the process of mocking up one set of these made rails as a "proof of concept" model in the very near future. I have attached a picture of what I intend to do for economy. The angle shown is 2.5x2.5x.25 Architectual alum angle with the short leg ripped on the table saw to 23/32" to match the rabbet/shoulder height of the T3 cap rail. Price for the test. 35$ for 25' of angle and 60$ for cap rail...if all goes well, I will have a hardened rail system for about 100$ each side.

Wish me luck!
Sean
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rail_section.jpg (10.0 KB, 173 views)
  #32  
Old Thu 04 October 2007, 22:49
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Sean, I was playing with exactly that last night!

There are some problems with that layout: The rack is going to sit partly under the alu, and partly under the V-Cap, if one wants the pinion to sit mostly on the motor shaft. Remember that the shaft of the geared motor is 5mm [3/16"] shorter that that of the ungeared motor.

But, if we accept that the height of the V-rail will be 30mm [1.25"] in future (I think that is a given now), a neat solution could follow. Now we can mount the V-Cap on the inner face of the alu angle. (mirror the cap over and lift it up 6mm [.25"]. That should solve a lot of issues . . . . .
Well, that was 11pm last night and is on my home computer, so I can't pop the sketch here now. Any comment on that?

(The alu base for the V-rail will still need to have the end-stops welded on, or something bigger bolted on)
  #33  
Old Fri 05 October 2007, 05:42
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Gerald,
Thank you for the quick reply. As you mentioned...I did NOT remember that the pinion gear was shorter. Now you have me wondering if Berg and Sterling Drive Products has a longer gear or at least gear stock that I can bore to the proper DIA for the concept test only. Of course, there is the overhung load change on that change. I bet it would be safer for me to wait to see what you come up with. If you mirror the placement, will I need to drill and tap the cap rail and still put the button heads in from the outside looking in? I am worried about the clearance on the gantry. Or am I being over zealous?

The end stop issue I have resolved....I can either weld or bolt on a modified stop, which I am in favor of doing.

One quick note on Alum to steel connection for the forum. Anytime alum meets steel (ferrous metals) there must be a barrier material (paint, UHMW tape, something) between the two to minimize oxidation and reaction to each other. I have planned to add 1/32" barrier film between the two on final assembly if this works. The stainless steel bearing will not be an issue. Additionally, since you have an independent ground wire running to the controller from each individual axis, I am not worried about maintaining a "rolling electrical ground"

If any part of this seems strange, mechanically wrong, or just "doesn't seem right" - please advise. I haven't built a machine from scratch since my graduate school days in machine automation.

Best Regards,
Sean
  #34  
Old Fri 05 October 2007, 06:03
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Sean, can you work with .dxf files for CAD?
  #35  
Old Fri 05 October 2007, 06:35
driller
Just call me:
 
4 posts merged into 1:

Hi Sean,

I have a very hard time seeing the details in the picture.

can you enlarge them ?

As a side note, have you considered using cold rolled steel instead of aluminum ?

I worked with a guy ( I think it was Turkey) who said he could get any steel he wanted, but aluminum was soooo expensive that it was not something he could afford.

Also, cold rolled steel is pretty decent in size dimensionally, and since you are not machining it, just drilling it, it might be an alternative.

is there a place on here one can post .dxf files or dwg files ?

here is yet another possibility.


a second block


the Superior Bearing size 3 rail has a 1/4" (6mm) rise above the block.
that means a pair of 1/2" blocks as shown in my last post would put the angle at the same height and same location as one would do now with grinding an angle iron part.


It looks like a second way to get the same thing. of course I do not know what other things might interfere with the second block.

Dave
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mechmate angle.jpg (6.6 KB, 170 views)
  #36  
Old Fri 05 October 2007, 12:17
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Sean, here are my dressed up doodles:

The white motor shafts shown are the shorter 32mm shafts from the geared motors:

Attachment 444
30mm tall angle iron rails

Attachment 445
V-Cap rail attached to inside of
alu angle - it works out well.


Attachment 446
The problem of attaching to the outside . . .



Attachment 447
Why locate the shoulder on a sawn edge?
Let's work towards shimming at S1 . . . .
And then it dawned on me; just rest the rail on the extruded face at the
bottom and saw a small clearance at S2.
(Might have to do something about the tiny fillet in the angle . . . )

So, the result is that the rail drawing M1 10 110 M has been changed to show an overall height of 28mm [1.1"] to make the JR Skated rails interchangeable with the BWC/Superior rails resting on 6mm [1/4"] strip/extrusion.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Clipboard01.gif (13.4 KB, 171 views)
File Type: gif Clipboard02.gif (10.8 KB, 170 views)
File Type: gif Clipboard03.gif (5.9 KB, 170 views)
File Type: gif Clipboard04.gif (5.8 KB, 170 views)
  #37  
Old Sat 06 October 2007, 04:26
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Gerald,
Any format is fine. I draft in AutoCAd daily - thru release 2008. Dwg or Dxf fine. I appreciate the quick reply and hard work.

A side note: Donald was kind enough to sell me his last set of Laser cut parts, therefore, I am certain I will have a couple of modifications to do to the motor plates. Nothing a quick plug weld and redrill won't fix!

Thank you.
Sean
  #38  
Old Sat 06 October 2007, 05:25
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Dave,
I can use steel and have access to all the tools to deal with it. I was just keen to using the Architectual alum angle due to the nice crisp (and almost always) straight 90 deg flange to wall alignment. Not to mention drilling and cutting the leg down to size is easy! Gerald has been kind to quickly update the dwg files and show the pros/cons of the arrangement we have been talking about for days now. I think now Gerald has a nice "universal" change to his machine design to work with most everyone depending availability of iron, alum or JR's Skate grinder.

Regards,
Sean
  #39  
Old Sat 06 October 2007, 06:01
driller
Just call me:
 
Seems that there is a path for everyone. Those who want to grind their own, and those who want to use pre-fabricated.

I can see that Gerald covered the two main points he was worried about. the big one was getting the motor shaft directly under the full gear rack.

the second (minor one) was that the rack was on only one piece.

Dave
  #40  
Old Sat 06 October 2007, 06:32
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
. . . . there is a third one . . . .

That the rail locates to extruded, and not sawn surfaces.

. . . . a very important third one that has been eluding me until waiting in the car for wife to get the Thai takeaway meal last night.
  #41  
Old Sat 06 October 2007, 06:59
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Gerald....so TRUE. Keep it to machined / extruded face and I have 1/2 a chance of getting something right on my first build.

Speaking of builds...my brother in Ohio now wants one for his home shop...sounds like I will be build two units now! I love a great design!
Sean
  #42  
Old Sat 06 October 2007, 07:39
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Ohio is the home of www.superiorbearing.com who has the best prices - but I suppose your brother will be paying for two sets and shipping one
  #43  
Old Sat 06 October 2007, 08:46
Marc Shlaes
Just call me: Marc
 
Cleveland, OH
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to Marc Shlaes
Sean, where is your brother in Ohio? I am in Cleveland?

Marc
  #44  
Old Sat 06 October 2007, 11:54
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Marc,
Akron. Just down the road about 35 miles.
As a note to Gerald, my brother #2, the one is not in the need of a new machine can walk across the highway to superior and pick everything up for brother #3. I come from a big family and it figures that the youngest is the one saddled with building everything! At least the connections help!

Have a great weekend.
Sean
  #45  
Old Tue 23 October 2007, 13:43
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Superior Bearing Current pricing
14 - GW3 bearing - 14.49
6 - B3X - bushing - 2.91
total - $220.32 plus shipping
  #46  
Old Tue 30 October 2007, 09:03
GregW
Just call me:
 
Since not all of us have the equipment to make our own rails or have the time to build the jigs are they good for them as well?
  #47  
Old Tue 30 October 2007, 11:11
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Yes,
Rick at Superior sells the cap rail. Soft or Hardened. He has the best price that I have researched to date. Customer service and delivery is one of the best I have dealt with. Sean
  #48  
Old Tue 30 October 2007, 11:55
driller
Just call me:
 
The bearings and rails are easy to install if you can set up a drill press.

It is just spend the time to do it yourself, or the dollars to havesome else do part of the work for you.

Dave
  #49  
Old Tue 30 October 2007, 12:03
GregW
Just call me:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smreish View Post
Yes,
Rick at Superior sells the cap rail. Soft or Hardened. He has the best price that I have researched to date. Customer service and delivery is one of the best I have dealt with. Sean
I just received an email from Rick and as long as the rails are not over 8' he has no problems. When they go over 8' shipping goes up by as much as $140.00. Shorter lengths can be butt jointed but then you have a seam, would this make a difference?

I'm waiting for the latest drawings from Gerald before I get ready to order. I may have to settle for a small table and just cut the sheeting down to fit.

Greg
  #50  
Old Tue 30 October 2007, 12:17
GregW
Just call me:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by driller View Post
The bearings and rails are easy to install if you can set up a drill press.

It is just spend the time to do it yourself, or the dollars to havesome else do part of the work for you.

Dave
Dave,

If you can have everything pre-drilled there's no need to set up a drill press. Also, if you aren't set up to make your own it's just as cost effective for the time being to have them made.

Greg
  #51  
Old Tue 30 October 2007, 13:19
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Forum,
My experience is that a butt joint on a linear machine should be fine, but you should stagger the seam to alternate ends of the table so only 1 bearing (out of 4 on the gantry) will touch the area. With proper alignment, you may never know the seam exists! I use multiple segments on angle track rail on my large Turntable designs and I haven't notice a problem - ever. Good luck with your choices! Sean
  #52  
Old Tue 30 October 2007, 14:20
GregW
Just call me:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smreish View Post
Forum,
My experience is that a butt joint on a linear machine should be fine, but you should stagger the seam to alternate ends of the table so only 1 bearing (out of 4 on the gantry) will touch the area. With proper alignment, you may never know the seam exists! I use multiple segments on angle track rail on my large Turntable designs and I haven't notice a problem - ever. Good luck with your choices! Sean
Sean, Do you have any photos of your machine? The more I see the better off I am. - Greg
  #53  
Old Tue 30 October 2007, 14:23
driller
Just call me:
 
Shorter lenghts ?

You could build the full lenght table and only put the parts on the place they fit. that way, you have a whole sheet on the table even though you can only move over most of it.

also, if you have the room, you can pin the work to the table, move the work and re-pin it. location pins are not uncommon.

Dave
  #54  
Old Tue 30 October 2007, 15:02
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Greg,
I don't have anything built yet. Except for the kitchen project! I have a little wiring to finish before testing commences. Maybe this weekend. Halloween has me devoted to haunted houses and kids this week

If you look at my personal pages thread you can see what I have done thus far. My point about the cap rail is you can install it like a scarf joint on crown molding. Just cut it at a 45 and marry the two together to form a rolling joint. Very easy to do out of NON-hardened rail like superior sells.
  #55  
Old Wed 31 October 2007, 09:44
Art
Just call me: Art #2
 
Lancaster,Texas
United States of America
T3 rails from Superior bearing

Just got a quote from from Superior Bearing on 8' non hardened T3S rails without pre drilled holes of $51.12 each. At least for us in the USA this
eliminates doing your own.
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