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  #1  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 17:29
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Copied from another thread becuase it talks about what happens when you have the wrong contactor

Ok I give, I need help!

Well first I am proud of myself for not lighting anything on fire and for not electrocuting myself. But here is the problem. I cannot get power past the contactor. I have it wired just like the diagram in the instructions for 230v.

I turn the disconnect on and nothing happens which is what I expect to happen.

Then I Push the green button power button on the outside door and the light illuminates and as soon as I release the button the light goes out. Not what I expected.

I have checked and rechecked with a meter and against the diagram and everything is good.

So I started to experiment a little. I pushed on the center area to make the contact and with power not going to the estop buttons nothing happens. With the power on and pushing down I have a horrible sounding humming/buzzing noise.

I have not seen if power comes out the other end but I dont really want try just incase things dont go good.

So I need suggestions on what to try and what to look for. I could get you guys a video or some pictures but I dont know if it would help out that much as their is nothing much happening. Thanks for the help.
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  #2  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 17:51
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
Send a message via Yahoo to Robert M Send a message via Skype™ to Robert M
Russell, Iíll jump at it first !!

First off, yes, photos of you controller/electrical box or better yet, also include your actual electrical diagram if you made one aside of the plans ?

2nd, give me some voltage reading at a few points with a millimeter, if you have one. If not, will still manage
If no multi meter, maybe a minimum of a test light that can take +/- 220-240Vac.
Check where some & where no voltage and come back with some info & photos, Iíll be around later !
See ya, Robert
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  #3  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 20:09
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
Try testing the voltage going to the control on the contactor. The sound you are hearing could be the contactor not "latching up"
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  #4  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 20:29
cab. guy
Just call me: Ron
 
Boise,Id.
United States of America
Russel,
check the coil voltage at A1 A2 In both senerios---Power on and no green btn.
Power on green btn. manually held.I agree it sounds like your relay is missing proper
feed to latch.
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  #5  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 20:51
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Thanks for the help guys. I have been at this for a couple of days now and finally said uncle. The failure to latch is what I am thinking (not that I know much). I did trace all the wires for continuity in both open and closed and every thing seemed good.

I will get voltage readings, pictures and a video for you guys tomorrow. Its just to dark in the garage to see anything. I have rewired the contactor maybe 5 times now and the photo will show how it is wired up. The only thing that I have straid away from the original drawing is points 13 to A1 but I have wired it in accordance with the manual and had the same results.

Thanks again guys. I will get you more tomorrow.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Circuit.jpg (22.2 KB, 270 views)
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  #6  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 20:54
cab. guy
Just call me: Ron
 
Boise,Id.
United States of America
Russel, check the data tag for the coil it should list as 120 vac.A1 and A2 screws are at the VERY BOTTOM closest to the coil.To check the coil jump it with a 120 vac.
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  #7  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:14
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Ok so I threw on a headlamp and did some measuring.

Point 1 and 5 have 120volts

Points 2 and 6 have 0 Volts until I push down the contact points the I have 120v

Point 14 has a constant 120v

Point 13 has 0v normal and 120v when I push the green button.

Point A2 has 0v normal and 120v when I push the green button.

A1 has and the Lamp both have a way to neutral.


When I push and hold the button I get a very faint hum but no clapping sound (contactor slamming shut) When I manually push down on the contactor just a little I get no humming but power the way it should be. When I push the contactor all the way down I get a very audible hum with a lot of vibration.
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  #8  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:20
cab. guy
Just call me: Ron
 
Boise,Id.
United States of America
Russel your missing the wire from contact 14 or Lt to the left side of the off btn.
this completes your latching circuit.
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  #9  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:26
cab. guy
Just call me: Ron
 
Boise,Id.
United States of America
When you finger the contactor is it smooth? When you finger the contactor with power will it stay engaged?
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  #10  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:38
cab. guy
Just call me: Ron
 
Boise,Id.
United States of America
It almost sounds by accident that you may have acquired a 240 coil.Bottom line if you apply 120 vac to a 120vac terminals A1 and A2 you should have initial engagement---not your fault.
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  #11  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:40
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
When I finger it it does not stay latched.

If I went from post 14 to the light wouldnt it stay constantly on?

I went out and looked for a coil voltage and didnt seen anything. I did see a sticker that was in-between A1 and A2 that stated "460v 60hz" but I want to say that is for the loads in and out.

I have a CN-22-P6 and here is the info on it. http://factorymation.info/motor_cont...-18toCN-22.pdf

There are also 2 stickers on there that say remove as necessary. I might have a look at them tomorrow to.
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  #12  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:47
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
I would break this down to a simple problem..

Take the contactor out of the box, hook up a lamp cord to the control contacts and plug the plug into a 120 volt wall socket... IF the contactor is working correctly you will have contact and you can measure the line terminals with a multi tester for resistance..

This would eliminate all other factors and make sure that the part is working... If it is working then you can proceed to your wiring and look for the problem there...
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  #13  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:48
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Check the thread "trouble with contactor" in section 70 from january. Sorry, can't link on my phone.
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  #14  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:54
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
I think I might have found the problem. Kinda feel like an idiot but..... I am pretty sure I wanted to purchase a CN-22-F6 and not a CN-22-P6

Just to be sure could someone look at these 2 and make sure I have it right this time. The difference is 120v and 460v.

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.98/.f

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.5610/.f
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  #15  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:00
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
Ah I think I see the problem... your contactor is for 460 volts!

TECO IEC Contactor - 22A, 460VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. / 1 N.C. Aux
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  #16  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:01
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
The F6 is only rated for 6 amps
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  #17  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:03
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
You need more amps... Something like this http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.98/.f its part number is CU-22-F6 and is rated for 22 amps Or this on http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.104/.f which is 35 amps... I think you said you had 30 amps coming in...
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  #18  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:20
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Yeppers now I have have another order into FactoryMation. They must think Im nuts. I have seriously wasted a few days trying to get this figured out. I should have asked a lot sooner for help but wanted to try and figure it out for myself. Would have never guessed 460v was for the coil. Cant even think how you would get 460v to a1 and a2.


Steve did you get your box in the mail yet?
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  #19  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:22
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regnar View Post
Yeppers now I have have another order into FactoryMation. They must think Im nuts. I have seriously wasted a few days trying to get this figured out. I should have asked a lot sooner for help but wanted to try and figure it out for myself. Would have never guessed 460v was for the coil. Cant even think how you would get 460v to a1 and a2.


Steve did you get your box in the mail yet?
No, not yet.. I'm in no hurry as I am still working on FactoryMation order # 1

Did you get my PM about sharing a roll of tape?
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  #20  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:38
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Steve just make sure you order the right contactor, some fool around here is giving out bad information and is on his 5th order.
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  #21  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:54
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Russell, I am proud of all the guys who stepped in to help you diagnose your problem.

This illustrates how difficult it is to discuss noise / sounds / temperature / light / smell / etc. on a forum. If you thought you were hearing noises with that 460V coil, just wait till you hear the 120V coil kick in!

Your "mistake" was in the reading of the commas in the factorymation descriptions:

Contactor - 22A, 460VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. / 1 N.C. Aux
versus:
Contactor - 22A, 120VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. / 1 N.C. Aux

The phrases between the commas are what counts. (the last phrase indicates 2 Aux contacts)
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  #22  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 05:38
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Great thread !!! I had this issue with a Factory Mation coil as well. I ordered the wrong one the first time and fried the second one because I hooked it up wrong. But Gerald is right. When mine starts (It is triggered by the software) it sounds like someone hit it with a hammer.

It is used on my Dynatorch Plasma to start the exhaust fan.
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  #23  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 09:02
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Russell

You want the CU-22-F6 that replaces the CN-22-F6 that I used on my box.
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  #24  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 09:22
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Hey, please note that the schematic in post #61 has many problems. Start by tracing the power feeds in, and see that l1 goes to N on the contactor, and vice-versa. The control circuit and the power circuit are intertwined with each other.

So, even after getting the right contactor, you still have work to do. Again check the "Trouble with Contactor" thread for both pictures and words about how this should look.
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  #25  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 10:16
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Brad, I don't see what you are seeing in that #61 diagram, please tell more?
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  #26  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 10:57
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Start from upper right, the unlabeled power conductor, which should be either L2 or N. It runs through a fuse, and to pin 1 of the contactor, labeled L1. It doesn't run anywhere else, like to the other side of the coil.

Starting again from upper right, trace the line labeled L1. It runs through the off button, to the on button and the aux contact at 14. Through the on button and the aux contact at 13 are paths to the coil at a2. A1 then runs to labeled N on pin 3 and to the lamp, but never returns to the power source.

If you were to take the group at pin 3 labelled N back to the right hand side power feed you will have the same leg on both pin 1 and 3. Control circuit should run, but no power will result out of the contactor.

If you take the group at pin 3 labeled N back to the left hand side power feed (labeled L1), you have the same leg on both sides of the control circuit. Control circuit won't run.

Unless I'm missing something.
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  #27  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 11:37
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Brad, I think you made the wrong assumption that the upper right cable is the mains supply? The 220V (dual-phase) mains supply is actually at lower left side, L1, N, L2.

That "sketch" is an extract from drawing 10 70 130 that you should have in your drawing pack.
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  #28  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 12:01
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Here is a couple of drawings of the circuits in their different modes.
Red is positive and Green is Neutral.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Power off.JPG (25.0 KB, 230 views)
File Type: jpg Green Button Pushed.JPG (28.9 KB, 231 views)
File Type: jpg Power on, Button Released.JPG (27.2 KB, 230 views)
File Type: jpg Power button off.JPG (23.3 KB, 229 views)
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  #29  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 12:38
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Yep, I missed that. Thanks, Gerald.
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