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  #631  
Old Sun 24 May 2015, 06:37
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
You beat me to my suggestion. A cheaper option could be any bolt, any length, after leveled, cut off flush, and slap a tack weld on it. Good luck.
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  #632  
Old Sun 24 May 2015, 21:09
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Great idea with the bolts.. but I already grabbed 100 m5 grub screws for under $20. Just gotta drill the zillion holes to put them in now
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  #633  
Old Mon 25 May 2015, 05:44
lonestaral
Just call me: Al #114
 
Isarn
Thailand
Send a message via Skype™ to lonestaral
You only need 100,000,005 holes
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  #634  
Old Mon 25 May 2015, 06:11
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Touche Al!
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  #635  
Old Mon 25 May 2015, 07:44
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
I calculated it as 100,000,042 holes, but I tend to overkill things.
I'm sure Al is right.
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  #636  
Old Mon 25 May 2015, 15:27
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
With that many holes I think I better get a few more 4.2mm drills, only 1 isn't going to hack it!
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  #637  
Old Mon 25 May 2015, 15:36
servant74
Just call me: Jack
 
Nashville (Tennessee)
United States of America
Yep, but 1 can get started while the others are on the way!
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  #638  
Old Tue 26 May 2015, 13:35
rischoof
Just call me: Rik #92
 
Goirle
Netherlands
leveling beams

here a suggestion to make the beams flat
what if you place two straight strips to the outside of the c beams. make some slob holes in those strips so you can adjust the height. clamp them with some bolts to the outer side of the c beams and let them stick 1 mm above the c beam. level the the 2 strips with a beam across and a machine bubble level (0.02mm / meter) yes I am metric
fix the strips to some points inbetween the outerside to avoid bending during level off.
use epoxy or polyester filler (used for repairing cars) not the quick drying but you should have half an hour work time. wall tile glue will also do the thing i guess

put it on topside of the beams and level off with a straight, not bending strip over the 2 leveled beams.
same method they use for plastering walls..
afterwards drill holes through the polyester/ epoxy.. into the beams and make the thread in the beams to fix the guidings. counter drill the into the top layer a bit, so it will not come up when fixing the bolts

in the past I led made some straight metal strips. they lasered them instead of using scissors. they stay straight make in one time the slob holes.

one time some effort, big smile on your face when its flat

before I painted my c beams and guidings i sand rough (size 60) sanding cloth, mounted on a piece of flat wood from +/- 40 cm to remove pollution / particles from the surface
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  #639  
Old Wed 27 May 2015, 04:57
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Thanks Rik

Sounds similar to what I was proposing to do with epoxy. I am all setup now for the grub screw method so will run with that

Cheers
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  #640  
Old Wed 27 May 2015, 12:26
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
When using epoxy, beware that even the self leveling stuff will bulge at the edges (your levelled strips) , due to capillary effects. Will need to sand that down to rest of the surface after curing (if your linear rails will use that area when mounted that is) .

I took a hand held belt sander, with the most coarse sanding belt I could find. Running it up and down the I beams made it remove all scaling and other rough spots, yet not enough to make the surface uneven. Then shimmed rails according to mm plans. Worked super quick. But my frame was welded super straight on a industrial welding table, not something most will do.

Use flathead grubs, and locktite

Last edited by Fox; Wed 27 May 2015 at 12:30..
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  #641  
Old Wed 27 May 2015, 12:31
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I'll just shim the Angle. Save the drilling & tapping chore. Self-levelling epoxy? Too messy for my liking.
Anyway, if you are really as precision as I imagine you are, you will still Shim the angle after the epoxy.
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  #642  
Old Thu 28 May 2015, 15:37
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Depending on the amount of gap shimming would be quicker however if it was like my build, I had more than 3 mm in spots, so the drill and tap method was quicker. With a good drill bit and production gun tap the job can be completed in no time at all. If it is a hand tap, it will be longer.
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  #643  
Old Fri 29 May 2015, 11:21
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
It's a personal I think, cause even with 10 mm gaps shimming would still be quicker.
You just do not shim it with coca cola cans alone, but a combination of assorted washers (1 mm , 0,5, 0,25 mm thick etc.) and coca cans for example. These washers can be bought at most decent hardware stores, as they are used for shimming in all kinds of engineering. Or use different steel or brass sheet stock, or... etc etc....

Whatever floats your boat. that's why it's your MM when you have built it
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  #644  
Old Fri 29 May 2015, 20:16
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Not here brother. Thin shim pack is 4 times the cost of a pack of screws and the 15 minutes to drill and tap was not that bad. Jacking screws are fairly typical in leveling. With some stuff in rural areas you pay astronomical prices. We always think of things as in the environment we have around us and not of the environment around that person when we offer suggestions. Something everyone is guilty of.
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  #645  
Old Fri 29 May 2015, 22:18
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Amen to that Pete! Just finding what others have is a hard enough task downunder. I have just completed one rail in about 30 minutes and have two way adjustablity, needed due to the abysmal state of the PFC on my machine. We have Chinese imports to thank for that.....
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  #646  
Old Sat 30 May 2015, 01:17
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
I am officially rapt! Both rails done now and back on the machine. Was able to level vertically at each and every bolt location and now the Y car rides damn nice on top. About to refit the racks and take her for a spin
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  #647  
Old Sat 30 May 2015, 01:31
clarson66
Just call me: Chris & Leon #100
 
Adelaide
Australia
Good work, get it cutting again soon .
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  #648  
Old Tue 02 June 2015, 06:39
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
I am happy to report that things are running alot better now, no strange vibrations or noises coming from the X axis now. Been doing a few halftone pictures and along with my new Amana Tools V-Groove bit the machine seems to be working great...
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  #649  
Old Tue 02 June 2015, 07:09
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Awesome. Can't wait to see some pictures of items off of the machine.
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  #650  
Old Mon 08 June 2015, 05:57
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Alrighty, continuing on with improvements. Something that has always bugged me was the distance Mach3 moves is not was was programmed. Say I tell the Z to move to -6mm, it will go to -5.9654. Or if I tell X to move 65mm via the MDI - G0X65- it will move to 65.213. It has been like this for ages and in some cases has stuffed up my jobs that require whole numbers versus these piece meal ones.

Firstly, are others seeing this? If not, has anyone any ideas on what I need to do to cure it.

Some info:

I am running 1:1 on my steppers. I have 30T pinions. My Leadshine drives are set to 8 microstep. That puts the Mach settings at 16.977 steps per mm.

On ebay at the moment are 25T pinions that I would consider buying or would I be better with 24T pinions. Should I advance my case for 3:1 belt drives?

I would just like to get this sorted so when I need to cut a pocket to 18mm wide and 6mm deep I actually cut those figures, especially where pieces of things need to fit together with some precision.

Any help on that would be more than greatly appreciated.


On another note I am seriously thinking of moving away from Mach3/Windows to LinuxCNC/Debian Linux. Those of you have that have done that, have you found any gotchas on the way? If I go down this path I hope to design a screenset that closely mirrors Gerries 2010 screenset that I currently use.

Again, any comments or help with that would also be appreciated.

Cheers
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  #651  
Old Mon 08 June 2015, 06:03
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
If you are talking about your DRO amount of movement, my programmed movement Vs. actual is within .002 when read at the DRO. As in if I do a 1.000 inch z retract, My readout will be .999 to 1.001. I have 3:1 belt drives.
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  #652  
Old Mon 08 June 2015, 06:20
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Yup, it's my DRO output. For example, I am cutting out 16.5mm MDF laminate. I do that with 2 cutters, one a downcut and one an upcut. Each one was told to cut down to 8.25mm at 3mm per pass. Never really noticed the first 2 passes but the last one definitely wasn't 8.25, it was closer to 9mm on the DRO when the Gcode said 8.25. Thats what got me thinking.

I know our machines aren't accurate to .00001 but would at least think if it is told to go to 8.25 it would.
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  #653  
Old Mon 08 June 2015, 08:00
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
It all had to do with the calculated distance per step. A single step on the machine I made for the X axis is 0.0003" or 0.00762mm. So the movement has to be a multiple of it.
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  #654  
Old Mon 08 June 2015, 08:19
ger21
Just call me: Ger
 
Detroit, MI
United States of America
Quote:
Or if I tell X to move 65mm via the MDI - G0X65- it will move to 65.213.
You should never see this much deviation. You resolution is about .058mm, so you can expect to be off by up to that much, but not more.

If you want better resolution, you need a gear or belt reduction.
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  #655  
Old Mon 08 June 2015, 11:22
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Quote:
On ebay at the moment are 25T pinions that I would consider buying or would I be better with 24T pinions. Should I advance my case for 3:1 belt drives?
That is something you will have to calculate out. We do not know the step angle of your steppers so we can only assume it is 1.8. That being said, you would have finer resolution with belt reduction. I personally would stay with the 30 Tooth, it is a balancing act but the more teeth the smoother the engagement.

Quote:
On another note I am seriously thinking of moving away from Mach3/Windows to LinuxCNC/Debian Linux. Those of you have that have done that, have you found any gotchas on the way? If I go down this path I hope to design a screenset that closely mirrors Gerries 2010 screenset that I currently use.
Don't base you decision to Linux on this. A lot of people use Mach and don't have a problem.

But your statement of

Quote:
Each one was told to cut down to 8.25mm at 3mm per pass. Never really noticed the first 2 passes but the last one definitely wasn't 8.25, it was closer to 9mm on the DRO when the Gcode said 8.25. Thats what got me thinking.
seems like there is something turned on to lower the last pass down. Ger, is there anything on your screenset that you can do this with that he may have inadvertently turned on? Are you in incremental or absolute? Do your drives have a tuning potentiometer on them and have you done that? Even the smallest mundane detail can solve a problem because it is overlooked.
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  #656  
Old Mon 08 June 2015, 17:51
ger21
Just call me: Ger
 
Detroit, MI
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by pblackburn View Post
seems like there is something turned on to lower the last pass down. Ger, is there anything on your screenset that you can do this with that he may have inadvertently turned on?
No. The DRO should read exactly what the g-code tells it to read (within the step/unit tolerance).


If the G-code said Z-8.25, then, like I said before, it should be within your tolerance of .058mm.


Quote:
I know our machines aren't accurate to .00001 but would at least think if it is told to go to 8.25 it would.
It should. Every time. Sounds like you may have a corrupt Mach3 installation.
This isn't a Mach3 bug, something is not working right in your installation. This is not a common issue.

What version of Mach3 are you using? If you're using 3.043.066, then try going back to 3.043.062 or 3.043.057.

Last edited by ger21; Mon 08 June 2015 at 17:53..
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  #657  
Old Mon 08 June 2015, 17:56
ger21
Just call me: Ger
 
Detroit, MI
United States of America
Quote:
If I go down this path I hope to design a screenset that closely mirrors Gerries 2010 screenset that I currently use.
I know nothing about LinuxCNC, but I don't think that would be a trivial task.

There are hundreds of Mach3 screens floating around, most of them bad.
But there are a lot, because it's not that hard to do.

I think that there are only a handful of LinuxCNC screens. Either the ones available are really good, or it's really, really hard to create a new screen for LinuxCNC.
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  #658  
Old Mon 08 June 2015, 18:32
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Thanks everyone, I'll check the mach version and change to one of those indicated by Gerry.

My change to linuxcnc would not be due to this problem , I have been thinking about it for a while now. My smoothstepper bugs me occasionally and I have a love/hate relationship with windowz. It would be a suck it and see process.

Gerry, just a cursory glance at at transition has been interesting. Getting linuxcnc to do something like your dual touchoff requires code to be written. I see your screenset as the best available for mach3, nothing comes close in the linux world aside maybe for gmoccapy that made an appearance a little while ago. Still nothing like 2010 though.
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  #659  
Old Tue 09 June 2015, 01:00
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Bruce, this is a comment from looong ago, it may not apply these days:

We saw that Mach (and Shopbot) programming was developed for the inch users - for millimeter users it seemed to have issues.
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  #660  
Old Tue 09 June 2015, 01:26
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Gerald, that is an interesting observation from long ago, I have thought of running Mach in Inch mode but then I have metric racks and pinions. If I had imperial racks etc I might be tempted to switch. I have read quite a bit on the interwebs about Mach3 having issues that should have been fixed long ago that haven't been, it wouldn't surprise me if this was one of them.

This is actually one of the reasons I wanted to try LinuxCNC, if not just to see if things improve in the accuracy.

Pete: Forgot to answer your post above. Thanks for the input re pinion size, I'll stick with 30T for belt drives for now, less expense is a good thing if nothing else

Cheers
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