Tilting or hide-away MM? limited floor space - Page 2

normand blais · #31 Sat 09 January 2010, 11:17

more like lack of it

Gerald D · #32 Sat 09 January 2010, 11:17

Read the patent claims carefully - that patent is based on a pneumatic counterbalance for the weight. (Page 9 line 32, left column)

riesvantwisk · #33 Sat 09 January 2010, 11:41

you guys are right, I didn't read the complete claim, just the first part and did draw my conclusions.

my bad...

Ries

rayditutto · #34 Sat 09 January 2010, 15:23

how does the counterbalance claim differ from the gas shock on the Z-axis?

the counterbalance claim addresses compensating for the effects of gravity on the toolhead however, gravity also affects the workpiece
i expect one would need to compensate for that also

/robin

lumberjack_jeff · #35 Sat 09 January 2010, 18:23

Very interesting Ries. It looks as if they are using air pressure to provide the "counterweight"

on edit: oops, I should have read the other replies.

Gerald D · #36 Sat 09 January 2010, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayditutto

how does the counterbalance claim differ from the gas shock on the Z-axis?

The pneumatic counterbalance is a small part of their claim. Their whole claim must be read in totality and that is describing a very different machine to a standard horizontal table router.

normand blais · #37 Sun 10 January 2010, 04:15

Sorry for drifting

anyway vertical machine come up every once in a while in forums and camtec space maker is an existing machine .cheking for their pattent is because I am curious .I would get a bigger place instead of that .Unless I wanted to put in a store window for people to see . I gess they dont want other to build vertical tilting machine with that pressure compensating valve from NUMATICS or other company .I always tough it was hydraulic.
Maybe it would work for very long z drive? see I am drifting again
Normand

Gerald D · #38 Sun 10 January 2010, 04:41

Quite common for big machines . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald D

A typical solution for loooong z-slides is a pneumatic cylinder, adjustable pressure regulator and a compressor.

normand blais · #39 Sun 10 January 2010, 04:52

wow

like power steering ... with air would work horisontal to I gess ? on a lathe

oopz · #40 Mon 08 February 2010, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald D

A constantly energised DC motor can be used as the "counterweight"

- its time (next week) to get same more info about (the elevator technology ??..) and realize the above ....OR use an "old fashion" counterweight solution ..no

SEYA
/oopz

liaoh75 · #41 Fri 12 March 2010, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald D

A constantly energised DC motor can be used as the "counterweight"

Can anyone explain what this means? I assume it means a standard DC motor appropriately sized would have a rack and pinion setup like the stepper on the Y-car (on the opposite side of the stepper) but would be persistently energized to conter the force of gravity pulling the Y-car to the base bottom of a vertically mounted Y axis. However, wouldn't the motor windings burn out if the Y-car stayed stationary for a long time? Please correct me if my assumptions are incorrect. Thanks in advance.

riesvantwisk · #42 Fri 12 March 2010, 10:19

Your assumption is correct, it's just a DC motor holding teh z up.

The motor would not burn if it's suitable for the job.

As per comparison: my stepper motors arrached to the z-plate doesn't have the spring yet, but the stepper holds the whole z-plate + router up perfectly, constantly energized!

Ries

liaoh75 · #43 Fri 12 March 2010, 10:21

Ries, thanks for the clarification.

riesvantwisk · #44 Fri 12 March 2010, 18:36

David,

I wanted to add that not any DC motor is just suitable. DC motors are designed for rotational workload generating a airflow through the engine. If yo want to use a DC motor to do this sort of work, you properly need to upscale it so that the mass of the engine is enough to coil the coil down enough.

Ries

Johannescnc · #45 Sat 13 March 2010, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald D

A constantly energised DC motor can be used as the "counterweight"

I think what Gerald meant was that a "constantly energized Stepper motor" could act as a "counterweight"...
but that is just my understanding

Gerald D · #46 Sat 13 March 2010, 01:56

Nope, I meant a DC motor. All DC motors will tolerate a certain amount of current before they need cooling. Motors used as "servo" motors should publish the constant current and peak current values......it is the constant current value that is of interest for this application.

Think of the z-axis on a "servo"-driven router. . . . . it sees little movement/cooling.

liaoh75 · #47 Sat 13 March 2010, 02:07

Ok, got it. How would one size such a motor? Would it be based on the weight of the entire Y-car after it was mounted to such a slated table? Would this be a better solution than a counter weight contraption like the "Pullman Industrial Balancer" sold by McMasters mentioned in another post? I believe that post is here for those who have no idea what I'm talking about http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...ring#post18959

Johannescnc · #48 Sat 13 March 2010, 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald D

Nope, I meant a DC motor.

OK.. I stand corrected. but in my opinion a counter weight would make more sense... as in an elevator.

Gerald D · #49 Sat 13 March 2010, 03:21

A counterweight would have to run on its own rails (it can't swing around like a pendulum from the moving carriage)..........or slide with a good fit inside the gantry tubes........

Johannescnc · #50 Sat 13 March 2010, 03:39

yes! and since this would be a slanted design it could be placed in what would normally be the under side of the machine...
But also I think it would have to be very heavy to counter the Z carriage...