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  #241  
Old Thu 21 January 2010, 11:38
Oleks
Just call me: Oleks
 
Poltava
Ukraine
Other than grab screws ways to hold pulleys on shafts?

There are reasons not to have on pulleys excess ring for grab screw. Many types of locking devices available but all are rather expensive. Could somebody suggest design not too complex to make with manual lathe. For shaft 14mm, width of pulley 19mm. What kind of metal (treatment) to use?
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File Type: jpg Self-centeringLock.jpg (94.2 KB, 2334 views)
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  #242  
Old Thu 21 January 2010, 12:26
Oleks
Just call me: Oleks
 
Poltava
Ukraine
OR just make two holes for grab screws through teeth and give it LockTite as well?
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  #243  
Old Thu 21 January 2010, 22:33
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The above posts, and reply, copied to:
"Grub"/set scews for pinion gears, with LocTite ?
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  #244  
Old Fri 29 January 2010, 05:45
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyZee View Post
II'm working on a design that uses a 170xl belt to give 5 teeth in contact. not a big change to the design but gives 25% increase contact area. Will post some concept pics soon.
matt - any progress on this one - or I missed it out some where else?
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  #245  
Old Fri 29 January 2010, 16:24
MattyZee
Just call me: Matt
 
Adelaide
Australia
irfan, yeah, i've finalised the design and will be making a prototype over the next few weeks. i was going to post some pics but then i discovered the 4:1 thread had been butchered and incorporated into this thread. Theres not much point posting it here as it will just get lost amongst other designs and discussion of grub screws and collars. PM me your email address if you want some details.
Cheers
Matt
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  #246  
Old Fri 29 January 2010, 21:30
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Matt, there is nothing special or unique about Chopper's 4:1 drive that made it any better than any other drive in this thread. In fact, it has the poorest angle of wrap on the small pulley and some are going to find that problematic.
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  #247  
Old Fri 29 January 2010, 22:19
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Matt, don't worry about your design getting lost in this thread. Keen MM builder & genuine builder-to-be will go through every word in the thread, eventually...

Combining is doing us a favour, we can have every possible design in a single place & IMHO, these design evolve & improve over time. An excellent example is the grinding skid design.
Post your design & lets have fun with it.

I opt for the belt reduction path, love the highest possible gear ratio but also worry about the grip. I have a vivid idea of using an idler pulley running on bearing to increase the wrap angle.

I wonder if I could just push use a plain 6001-zz bearing onto the belt for the job.
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  #248  
Old Fri 29 January 2010, 22:43
MattyZee
Just call me: Matt
 
Adelaide
Australia
I disagree with you Gerald. Choppers was the only one i have seen that used laser-cut and welded steel. It only required a couple of accurate (turned) parts so was within the reach of all mechmate builders, unlike the other designs which need a proper milling machine or working mechmate to build.
and as i said in a previous post, i was addressing the wrap angle in my modifications...

Ken, i agree combining was good as it gave a good overall snapshop of peoples implementations, but i think the original threads should have stayed separate so those that want to contribute on a particular design can do so without wading through other unrelated posts. the combined thread could then have a summary of the design and a link to the full thread. But Gerald has every right to run the forum the way he wishes and i accept that.
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  #249  
Old Fri 29 January 2010, 23:03
isladelobos
Just call me: Ros
 
Canary Islands
Spain
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I agree with Matt.

Maybe a solution is to centralize all the pulleys in a thread of links to other threads.
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  #250  
Old Fri 29 January 2010, 23:12
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Something like this with a 180 deg wrap & same foot print.

Belt reduction with idler.jpg

This is the concept, the holding structure can be any metal.

Last edited by KenC; Fri 29 January 2010 at 23:14..
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  #251  
Old Fri 29 January 2010, 23:41
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Correct Ros, and the first step is to centralize them, as was done in this thread. (we had one versus the rest before).

Matt, the laser cut version shown by Leo (castone), before Chopper, did not need welding, and did not not need precision turned parts, which could make it the most accessible. But let's not get into issues of which designs are the most accessible - all of them have plusses and minusses and hence stirring them all into one big pot. If we have clear trends coming out, we can split them up again. Right now there is no clear trend.
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  #252  
Old Sat 30 January 2010, 17:49
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
Here are some pics again. The belt drives can be built pretty easy . I would recomend having the stand offs made on a lathe but everything else can be done with a hand drill as I made mine with nothing more than a hand drill just to see how well they would work. I have sold about 20 sets of these have not had any bad feed back so far. If anyone needs the drawing or a parts list just PM me.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3RIVES.jpg (67.6 KB, 2173 views)
File Type: jpg Assembly parts.jpg (76.5 KB, 2175 views)
File Type: jpg End Tranny.jpg (89.1 KB, 2189 views)
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  #253  
Old Sat 30 January 2010, 18:06
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
Here is the parts list.
Attached Files
File Type: doc Belt drive parts.doc (24.5 KB, 616 views)
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  #254  
Old Sat 30 January 2010, 18:14
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castone View Post
Here is the parts list.
There is a small error in the parts list Leo...

"4 shafts per motor 1.275 long .500 Dia" Should read

4 Stand-Offs per motor 1.275 long .500 Dia


I just ordered the bearings for mine
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  #255  
Old Sat 30 January 2010, 19:47
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Thanks for the PL Leo. A couple of small questions though, what keeps the 1/2" shaft from wandering back and forth, just the large gear? An in the pic top right there are two small washers that I do not see on the PL.
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  #256  
Old Sat 30 January 2010, 20:30
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
The two small washer are what keeps the shaft from wondering around, they work like a thrust washer and ride against the inner race of the bearing one on each side. I supply it in the kit. But you could laser cut your own.
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  #257  
Old Sat 30 January 2010, 22:41
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
For those small washers, I would use "fiber" or "sealing" washers, the reddish ones you typically find on an oil drain plug on your car/bike/lawnmower/plumbing.
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  #258  
Old Sun 31 January 2010, 06:35
liaoh75
Just call me: David
 
Taibao
Taiwan
Gerald,

If you don't mind me asking, a good while back you discovered that my pinions and rack were metric module 1.5 vs 1. This limits my minium pinion size. Do you feel that a 4:1 belt drive would be useable if I don't change out my Rack and pinion to module 1 with a 20 tooth pinon to get maximum mechanical advantage with a smaller pinon?
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  #259  
Old Sun 31 January 2010, 07:25
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
David if your present geared drives are giving backlash problems (and if it is definitely backlash), then a belt drive will give an improvement. But, if you are getting rough cuts for unknown reasons, a 4:1 belt drive could make it worse. It really depends on the problem that you are trying to solve.
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  #260  
Old Sun 31 January 2010, 09:21
liaoh75
Just call me: David
 
Taibao
Taiwan
Thank you Gerald; That was fast. I don't have any problems with my present setup. My cuts are very smooth. I do a lot of acrylic sometimes up to 40mm. I'm just asking because I'm looking into building a second machine in the not too distant future. Here in Taiwan, there are just so many parts available, making a belt drive wouldn't be difficult at all. Any gearing ratio I can think of can be found here on some shelf somewhere. I can even get any timing gear custom made for very little. However, when I'm ready to build my second Mechmate, do you think there is any benefit of using module 1 rack/pinion vs. what I got now (module 1.5)?

For my second build, I'm thinking of using the Motion King motor with a belt drive. I've been driving your well engineered machine hard for the last three months and there's not even the hint of any problems. Thanks again Gerald!
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  #261  
Old Sun 31 January 2010, 10:08
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Ah, now I understand where you want to go . . .

Yes, a module 1 will give you a finer (smoother) drive than module 1.5. So, why doesn't everyone always use module 1 for everything? Some high loads will break the fine teeth (we don't seem to be near that with our CNC routers). Too fine a tooth can clog with contamination (we aren't seeing that either). Therefore, for our routers, we might even be able to go finer than mod 1, but that is not commonly available.
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  #262  
Old Tue 02 February 2010, 15:18
dragonbreath
Just call me: Bill
 
Gibsonton florida
United States of America
hi guys can i stick in 2 cents been reading and learking for over a year researching drawing planning wishing ran across this tool for reduction drives because that is what i am planning from the get go http://www.sdp-si.com/Cd/default.htm[/URL] this site does the numbers for you you enter the distance center to center on your gears and ratio that you want you can get cad drawings and belt leignths does most of the hard work for you i have played with several models in solidworks and it works very well during my research i read that the more belt contact that you have on your small gear the less wear and tear on the belt correct me if you feel differently
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  #263  
Old Wed 03 February 2010, 13:21
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
Any one who whould like to try them, here are the drawings for the belt drives.
Attached Files
File Type: dxf Dead Stop.DXF (1.6 KB, 402 views)
File Type: dxf Keling 650 oz spacer for motor.dxf (1.0 KB, 355 views)
File Type: dxf MECHMATE MOTOR MOUNT INSIDE.dxf (2.2 KB, 410 views)
File Type: dxf MECHMATE MOTOR MOUNT OUTSIDE.dxf (2.8 KB, 384 views)
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  #264  
Old Wed 03 February 2010, 14:21
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Leo,

You are being very generous with you work.
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  #265  
Old Wed 03 February 2010, 17:52
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Leo is the inside mount the same as the standard geared motor mount if some people already have the standard mount?
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  #266  
Old Wed 03 February 2010, 18:05
Castone
Just call me: Leo #41
 
Soddy Daisy , Tn
United States of America
Well,give a little take a little. The hole is smaller, but a person could turn a spacer and weld it into the original motor mount kind of like chopper did. Then just make the other plate out of flat bar.
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  #267  
Old Mon 01 March 2010, 16:33
PEU
Just call me: Pablo
 
Buenos Aires
Argentina
Leo, do these work for all 3 axis?
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  #268  
Old Wed 03 March 2010, 04:35
myozman
Just call me: Mike #16
 
Demotte,IN
United States of America
Pablo,

Yes they do. They really work well.
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  #269  
Old Wed 03 March 2010, 13:48
Temuba
Just call me: Dave
 
Vineland,NJ
United States of America
Contact angle/ No. of Teeth

I've been reading this thread many times regarding certain 4:1 Reduction designs and the minimum Contact angle or engaged number of teeth on the smaller Timing Belt Pulley. If I read most of it correct, my conclusion is that you "should" have the belt contact a minimum of 6 teeth on the smaller pulley. Correct me if I'm wrong.

However, from what I have seen on many of these designs is to make them as compact as possible using the smallest belt allowable without the two pulleys touching each other. First, are we required to make a compact design or is it a preferred method?

I'm trying to design a 4:1 Reduction Belt Drive using the following parts:
-72 teeth XL pulley
-18 teeth XL pulley
-Belt: 85 Grooves x 17" Pitch Length

Below is a Sketchup drawing of the calculation/layout and the C-C dimensions are 3.44" with an overall aluminum base of 7.9". On the smaller pulley there are 6 teeth contacting and on the larger one 48 teeth contacting. Please let me know if first, how would this design affect the resolution/performance and am I understanding this thread correctly? Thank you.


Gerald or MetalHead: I've tried to downsize the image with little success, please let me know how I can accmplish this. Thank you.
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  #270  
Old Wed 03 March 2010, 15:13
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Leo

I was wanting to have a look at the parts but can not open the DXF files in autocad. It says " Improper linetype name on line 10. Invalid or incomplete DXF input -- drawing discarded."

Anyone else have this issue or a solution.

thanks
Ross
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