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  #181  
Old Mon 09 June 2014, 08:12
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Started getting things wired with the transformer. Then on to the input of the Geckos. Then the latching circuit with 24V E-Stop.
Before I could power up I needed to change one of my welder outlets from 250V to 250V/125V. My Controller needs a neutral for the 125V stuff.
Disconnected the Power Supply output to protect the Geckos while I played with the Power On latch and E-Stop circuit.
Power On latch and 24V E-Stop circuit worked. Measured the no load voltage at the output of the Power Supply (48.4V)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Xformer Wires.jpg (85.8 KB, 566 views)
File Type: jpg Power on latch works.jpg (96.8 KB, 566 views)
File Type: jpg 24v estop works.jpg (79.0 KB, 561 views)
File Type: jpg Change outlet.jpg (82.2 KB, 562 views)
File Type: jpg Gecko Power.jpg (87.4 KB, 562 views)
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  #182  
Old Mon 09 June 2014, 08:25
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Took a break from wiring back to motor mounting.
Cut some Teflon washers. 1/16"(1.6mm) and 1/18" (3.2mm) thick.
Holding the bolts in place with Push Nuts. Cut flats on the end for tightening the lock nut.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Teflon Washers.jpg (72.3 KB, 566 views)
File Type: jpg push nut.jpg (57.3 KB, 565 views)
File Type: jpg first teflon washer.jpg (50.6 KB, 564 views)
File Type: jpg Holding FH Screw.jpg (70.4 KB, 564 views)
File Type: jpg Milling FH Screw.jpg (74.0 KB, 563 views)
File Type: jpg Installing FH Screw.jpg (48.9 KB, 562 views)
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  #183  
Old Mon 09 June 2014, 10:00
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Like the push nut idea. I will have to use that on my machine.
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  #184  
Old Mon 09 June 2014, 10:04
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
I put a dab of epoxy on the countersink area and had the slot cut in end of bolt.
All great solutions shown here to make it a bit easier for that low clearance bolt requirement.
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  #185  
Old Tue 10 June 2014, 07:38
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Installed the X-Motors

Mounted the X-Motors and was able connect one to a terminal board.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg X Motor Wiring 1.jpg (72.4 KB, 537 views)
File Type: jpg X Motor Wiring 2.jpg (61.9 KB, 538 views)
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  #186  
Old Tue 10 June 2014, 11:41
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
did you really weld your stepper hole shut to avoid the standard 'put a sticker on your hole' comment ? DRASTIC dude

That looks like a split ring on second guess, so i guess they are supplied that way by the factory (the picture was not too big)
Ps. good progress. I am connecting my motors with a Neutrik plug, other then that ... very similar build (stage) !

Last edited by Fox; Tue 10 June 2014 at 11:44..
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  #187  
Old Tue 10 June 2014, 13:32
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Factory supplied.
I wanted to use a plug and socket but had the terminals available. Nothing dangling. The yellow cable will pass thru a square EMI suppressor. I'll mount the square suppressor and use it as a cable support for that side.

See figure C

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogusd/646/1184.pdf
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  #188  
Old Tue 10 June 2014, 23:44
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I hide all connections inside a junction box where the E-stop is mounted.
Looks nicer too.
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  #189  
Old Wed 11 June 2014, 08:03
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Ken,
Good thought, I may wait until I mount the E-Stop Boxes before I finish terminating the motor wires. I also need to install relays for the proximity sensors in the E-Stop box.

Trimmed the spindle mounts and plan on cutting the ears down and counter boring for 1/4-20 socket head screws closer in.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Spindle mount trim 2.jpg (75.6 KB, 518 views)
File Type: jpg Spindle mount trim 1.jpg (76.1 KB, 520 views)
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  #190  
Old Wed 11 June 2014, 10:00
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
Better to not use relays for prox sensors.
It will work but they have 'random' delays, making it less accurate.
Use a simple optocoupler (4N27 for instance), and a resistor instead.
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  #191  
Old Thu 12 June 2014, 06:06
alan254
Just call me: Al #95
 
mystic ct
United States of America
Like the idea of an optical connector. I have been using a Winford RLP104 relay panel mounted in the y car for over two years now with no trouble at all.
Just information.

Al
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  #192  
Old Thu 12 June 2014, 10:07
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
For the record, relays will not cause any problems if you choose to use them, many have... They will work. But ... if you are after repetability, they are not as reliable/accurate as optocouplers ( the moment off switching is randomly delayed ( but we are talking miliseconds here ). And optocouplers really divide both circuits in terms of power, so they are 100% failproof isolation, relays not.

An optocoupler cost mere cents, so it's actually even cheaper.

John, you can built this on a piece of pcd for less then a dollar.
I added an 3mm led on the board (between the sensor and the resistor) to have a indicator ( my prox also have an intergrated led but these are buried inside the machine)
It's very simply.
Use the 24 volt specs (since you already have 24 volt e-stop), and choose the circuit that matches your sensor (PNP or NPN)

If you want you can also buy optocouplers with more inputs and outputs os you only need one opto coupler. I choose seperate optocouplers (cuase they are deadcheap) and mounted the optocouplers in feet, so they are easily replaced if I blow them by accident, but this is not likely so hardly neccesary.


Last edited by Fox; Thu 12 June 2014 at 10:17..
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  #193  
Old Thu 12 June 2014, 11:08
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Fox,
When I saw that the opto chip wanted 1.5 volts I went looking for solid state relays and found these.

Input 3-32V DC Output 4A 200V DC 4 Pin PCB Solid State Relay HHG1D-0/032F-20

Now that I see the resistor is figured out for me and they can be so small I may switch back.
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  #194  
Old Thu 12 June 2014, 13:57
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Fox,
Just to make sure I'm clear on this.
Nothing connected to pins 3 and 6 on the 4n27.
Wire the collectors (pin 5) of the 4N427 together and connect to the limit on Bob.
Current limiting resistor on the input (pin 1)
Pin 2 returns to the proximity switch. - correction
Pin 4 connects to ground on Bob. - correction
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  #195  
Old Thu 12 June 2014, 19:05
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Fox, very interesting, thanks for the circuits. Just a question. ... what would it look like connecting the opto's in series for connection to 1 pin in the bob?
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  #196  
Old Fri 13 June 2014, 08:56
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
It should also be shown that it can be wired this way for a regular switch

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  #197  
Old Fri 13 June 2014, 09:15
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
4N27 diagram from datasheet
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 4N27.jpg (11.4 KB, 470 views)
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  #198  
Old Fri 13 June 2014, 11:18
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
Quote:
Fox,
Just to make sure I'm clear on this.
1)Nothing connected to pins 3 and 6 on the 4n27.
Wire the collectors (pin 5) of the 4N427 together and connect to the limit on Bob.
Current limiting resistor on the input (pin 1)
Pin 2 connects to ground on Bob.
Pin 4 returns to proximity switch


1)pin3 (NC) and PIN6(BASE) can be left floating indeed.
The rest -> combine image below of the pinout with description and my first image above, and you should be able to do the 'math' (compare the images) so resistor to leg 1 etc etc. ;-)
I have separate inputs for my proxy so will wire all separate.
If you have one input, you can combine them wired in series. You want o have your X1 and X2 wired seperately to be able to autosquare your gantry for example.

Kids words:
The proxi needs power to function, and it put's out a signal that switches on the led inside the optocoupler, which in turn triggers the output side of the optocoupler to switch.
An optocoupler is nothing more then you pushing on the button of your flashlight so you can send a signal with the flashlight to your neigbour, who then pushes a button for you, that opens your gate.
That button he pushed can actually be used to control anything low voltage (like your bob inputs) directly, and your bob can use it to communicate with the software which can control big things.
And because you never had to put an extension cord to your neighbour, to signal him, you can't electrocute him, which is nice, cause he's you neighbor, and you might need him in the future....

In other words .... that lame ass 2 dollar flashlight you built, saves you from from frying your expensive BOB by accident.



Ps1. I use Eding CPU5b, which switches to ground and has multiple limit inputs.
ps2. all images just sourced from the WWW, not my work, but checked to be correct.

Last edited by Fox; Fri 13 June 2014 at 11:48..
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  #199  
Old Fri 13 June 2014, 18:52
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Edit to post #194

Pin 2 returns to the proximity switch.
Pin 4 connects to ground on Bob.
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  #200  
Old Mon 16 June 2014, 08:20
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Inching along. Details are getting in the way of progress.
Installed the Z and Y motors. Needed to extend the flats on the pinion shafts of all motors to line up with the set screws.
Painted and assembled the E-Stop boxes.
Received the Solid State Relays (SSRs) from Amazon for the Proximity sensors. The 4N27 chips will be here by the end of the week as an alternate.
Pulled out the computer and installed 60 windows updates, dual parallel printer board, Mach3 and V-Carve Pro software.
Plugged in the Bob with power to make sure that the computer could see the status.

Need to complete wiring from the motors to the Geckos before I can continue with software testing. Still need to get a bearing for the Y Car Idler. I'll see if the local HW store has one on the way home tonight.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Y Motor Mounted.jpg (75.7 KB, 406 views)
File Type: jpg Z Motor Mounted.jpg (78.1 KB, 406 views)
File Type: jpg Cutting corners.jpg (64.9 KB, 410 views)
File Type: jpg E Stop Boxes.jpg (58.7 KB, 409 views)
File Type: jpg SSR.jpg (43.7 KB, 410 views)
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  #201  
Old Mon 16 June 2014, 08:29
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
To get 3 switches in the control box I needed to cut the corners off the switch release tabs
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Cutting Corners 2.jpg (63.8 KB, 445 views)
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  #202  
Old Mon 16 June 2014, 09:54
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
All grounds should be connected together. In other words, don't isolate one power supply from another.

Solid State Relays require a minimum load to work properly. If the load is too light, they will not reliably change state. Also, SSRs have a leakage current. You can get a good shock even when the circuit is "off". If you use a SSR to control a DC load, be sure to use a shunt diode to protect the relay. Most AC SSRs switch at 0 volts, which reduces electrical interference. Relays don't have that feature.
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  #203  
Old Tue 17 June 2014, 08:01
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Mike,

I received my 4N27's last night and will probably (based on your comments)go that way instead of the SSR's. Have not found a lot of detail in this area on the forum. It can be tough to dredge out specific information. I agree with the comment Fox made about repeatability of mechanical relays vs electronic devices. Your insight on SSR's is making me lean toward the 4N27 Opto Isolator. If all else fails to work I can always go back to relays.

John
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  #204  
Old Tue 17 June 2014, 08:14
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Along with the 4N27 I received the stepper cable Noise Suppressors (ferrites).
Back to the Spindle clamp modifications. Was able to drill, tap and install 1/4-20 inserts closer into the body of the clamp. Next will be to trim the ears off and the old clamping holes.
Reading about BOB and Mach3 interface for Pause and Resume functions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Cable Ferrite.jpg (60.7 KB, 416 views)
File Type: jpg Ferrite on Cable.jpg (51.7 KB, 415 views)
File Type: jpg Shrink Spindle Clamp 1.jpg (90.5 KB, 414 views)
File Type: jpg Shrink Spindle Clamp 2.jpg (76.2 KB, 415 views)
File Type: jpg Shrink Spindle Clamp 3.jpg (85.6 KB, 411 views)
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  #205  
Old Tue 17 June 2014, 14:52
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
Dude, you could have made it from a raw block of alu by now !

Just kidding, nice work, as usual.
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  #206  
Old Tue 17 June 2014, 15:04
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Ferrites are made to a certain spectrum and range, you may find you need others to tune out any EMI you may experience. Just keep that in mind.
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  #207  
Old Tue 17 June 2014, 16:51
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
Fox,
I think of that every time I cut these. But they only cost me $8 each.

Pete,
I picked up the broadband material since most of the noise will be in the mid range above 10mHz and below 500mHz. Probably won't know the difference.
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  #208  
Old Wed 18 June 2014, 07:09
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
A 4N27 can sink very little current. It's rated at about 30% efficiency, which means that if you size the resistor on the diode side to allow 10mA to pass, the transistor side will only sink about 3mA. Usually the 4N27 is connected to other logic, either TTL (such as a 7408 AND device) or a microcontroller. If you use other logic, you can can easily create the necessary logic so that multiple opto-couplers interface to a single input signal.
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  #209  
Old Wed 18 June 2014, 07:57
Tokamak
Just call me: John #121
 
Monrovia (ca)
United States of America
I keep picturing something like this.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Wire OR Prox Switch.gif (37.6 KB, 387 views)
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  #210  
Old Thu 19 June 2014, 10:00
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
Here's a schematic that shows the use of opto-couplers that have PNP (sourcing) inputs. The 7408 chip shows how I would connect the 4N27's outputs. Each output goes to a single input. On the 7408, if any input is pulled LOW, the output is low. (Edited: It looks like I forgot to connect pin 4 of the bottom 4N27 to ground. The circuit will not work unless that pin is connected to ground.)
Attached Images
File Type: png opto_2.png (21.9 KB, 359 views)

Last edited by Richards; Thu 19 June 2014 at 10:19..
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