MechMate CNC Router Forum

Go Back   MechMate CNC Router Forum > Personal Build Histories > MechMates already cutting
Register Options Profile Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:51
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Thanks for the help guys. I have been at this for a couple of days now and finally said uncle. The failure to latch is what I am thinking (not that I know much). I did trace all the wires for continuity in both open and closed and every thing seemed good.

I will get voltage readings, pictures and a video for you guys tomorrow. Its just to dark in the garage to see anything. I have rewired the contactor maybe 5 times now and the photo will show how it is wired up. The only thing that I have straid away from the original drawing is points 13 to A1 but I have wired it in accordance with the manual and had the same results.

Thanks again guys. I will get you more tomorrow.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Circuit.jpg (22.2 KB, 1998 views)
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 21:54
cab. guy
Just call me: Ron
 
Boise,Id.
United States of America
Russel, check the data tag for the coil it should list as 120 vac.A1 and A2 screws are at the VERY BOTTOM closest to the coil.To check the coil jump it with a 120 vac.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:14
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Ok so I threw on a headlamp and did some measuring.

Point 1 and 5 have 120volts

Points 2 and 6 have 0 Volts until I push down the contact points the I have 120v

Point 14 has a constant 120v

Point 13 has 0v normal and 120v when I push the green button.

Point A2 has 0v normal and 120v when I push the green button.

A1 has and the Lamp both have a way to neutral.


When I push and hold the button I get a very faint hum but no clapping sound (contactor slamming shut) When I manually push down on the contactor just a little I get no humming but power the way it should be. When I push the contactor all the way down I get a very audible hum with a lot of vibration.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:20
cab. guy
Just call me: Ron
 
Boise,Id.
United States of America
Russel your missing the wire from contact 14 or Lt to the left side of the off btn.
this completes your latching circuit.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:26
cab. guy
Just call me: Ron
 
Boise,Id.
United States of America
When you finger the contactor is it smooth? When you finger the contactor with power will it stay engaged?
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:38
cab. guy
Just call me: Ron
 
Boise,Id.
United States of America
It almost sounds by accident that you may have acquired a 240 coil.Bottom line if you apply 120 vac to a 120vac terminals A1 and A2 you should have initial engagement---not your fault.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:40
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
When I finger it it does not stay latched.

If I went from post 14 to the light wouldnt it stay constantly on?

I went out and looked for a coil voltage and didnt seen anything. I did see a sticker that was in-between A1 and A2 that stated "460v 60hz" but I want to say that is for the loads in and out.

I have a CN-22-P6 and here is the info on it. http://factorymation.info/motor_cont...-18toCN-22.pdf

There are also 2 stickers on there that say remove as necessary. I might have a look at them tomorrow to.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:47
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
I would break this down to a simple problem..

Take the contactor out of the box, hook up a lamp cord to the control contacts and plug the plug into a 120 volt wall socket... IF the contactor is working correctly you will have contact and you can measure the line terminals with a multi tester for resistance..

This would eliminate all other factors and make sure that the part is working... If it is working then you can proceed to your wiring and look for the problem there...

Last edited by swatkins; Fri 09 April 2010 at 22:50..
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:48
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Check the thread "trouble with contactor" in section 70 from january. Sorry, can't link on my phone.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 22:54
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
I think I might have found the problem. Kinda feel like an idiot but..... I am pretty sure I wanted to purchase a CN-22-F6 and not a CN-22-P6

Just to be sure could someone look at these 2 and make sure I have it right this time. The difference is 120v and 460v.

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.98/.f

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.5610/.f
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 23:00
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
Ah I think I see the problem... your contactor is for 460 volts!

TECO IEC Contactor - 22A, 460VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. / 1 N.C. Aux
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 23:01
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
The F6 is only rated for 6 amps
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 23:03
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
You need more amps... Something like this http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.98/.f its part number is CU-22-F6 and is rated for 22 amps Or this on http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.104/.f which is 35 amps... I think you said you had 30 amps coming in...

Last edited by swatkins; Fri 09 April 2010 at 23:05..
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 23:20
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Yeppers now I have have another order into FactoryMation. They must think Im nuts. I have seriously wasted a few days trying to get this figured out. I should have asked a lot sooner for help but wanted to try and figure it out for myself. Would have never guessed 460v was for the coil. Cant even think how you would get 460v to a1 and a2.


Steve did you get your box in the mail yet?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 23:22
swatkins
Just call me: Steve
 
Houston
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regnar View Post
Yeppers now I have have another order into FactoryMation. They must think Im nuts. I have seriously wasted a few days trying to get this figured out. I should have asked a lot sooner for help but wanted to try and figure it out for myself. Would have never guessed 460v was for the coil. Cant even think how you would get 460v to a1 and a2.


Steve did you get your box in the mail yet?
No, not yet.. I'm in no hurry as I am still working on FactoryMation order # 1

Did you get my PM about sharing a roll of tape?
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 23:38
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Steve just make sure you order the right contactor, some fool around here is giving out bad information and is on his 5th order.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old Fri 09 April 2010, 23:54
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Russell, I am proud of all the guys who stepped in to help you diagnose your problem.

This illustrates how difficult it is to discuss noise / sounds / temperature / light / smell / etc. on a forum. If you thought you were hearing noises with that 460V coil, just wait till you hear the 120V coil kick in!

Your "mistake" was in the reading of the commas in the factorymation descriptions:

Contactor - 22A, 460VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. / 1 N.C. Aux
versus:
Contactor - 22A, 120VAC / 60Hz Coil, 3 Pole 600V, 1 N.O. / 1 N.C. Aux

The phrases between the commas are what counts. (the last phrase indicates 2 Aux contacts)
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 06:38
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Great thread !!! I had this issue with a Factory Mation coil as well. I ordered the wrong one the first time and fried the second one because I hooked it up wrong. But Gerald is right. When mine starts (It is triggered by the software) it sounds like someone hit it with a hammer.

It is used on my Dynatorch Plasma to start the exhaust fan.

I made a copy of this and put it in the Troubleshooting Thread
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 10:22
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Hey, please note that the schematic in post #61 has many problems. Start by tracing the power feeds in, and see that l1 goes to N on the contactor, and vice-versa. The control circuit and the power circuit are intertwined with each other.

So, even after getting the right contactor, you still have work to do. Again check the "Trouble with Contactor" thread for both pictures and words about how this should look.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 11:16
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Brad, I don't see what you are seeing in that #61 diagram, please tell more?
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 11:57
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Start from upper right, the unlabeled power conductor, which should be either L2 or N. It runs through a fuse, and to pin 1 of the contactor, labeled L1. It doesn't run anywhere else, like to the other side of the coil.

Starting again from upper right, trace the line labeled L1. It runs through the off button, to the on button and the aux contact at 14. Through the on button and the aux contact at 13 are paths to the coil at a2. A1 then runs to labeled N on pin 3 and to the lamp, but never returns to the power source.

If you were to take the group at pin 3 labelled N back to the right hand side power feed you will have the same leg on both pin 1 and 3. Control circuit should run, but no power will result out of the contactor.

If you take the group at pin 3 labeled N back to the left hand side power feed (labeled L1), you have the same leg on both sides of the control circuit. Control circuit won't run.

Unless I'm missing something.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 12:37
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Brad, I think you made the wrong assumption that the upper right cable is the mains supply? The 220V (dual-phase) mains supply is actually at lower left side, L1, N, L2.

That "sketch" is an extract from drawing 10 70 130 that you should have in your drawing pack.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 13:01
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Here is a couple of drawings of the circuits in their different modes.
Red is positive and Green is Neutral.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Power off.JPG (25.0 KB, 2090 views)
File Type: jpg Green Button Pushed.JPG (28.9 KB, 2087 views)
File Type: jpg Power on, Button Released.JPG (27.2 KB, 2091 views)
File Type: jpg Power button off.JPG (23.3 KB, 2087 views)
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old Sat 10 April 2010, 13:38
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Yep, I missed that. Thanks, Gerald.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old Sun 11 April 2010, 12:50
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
I copied the updates to Trouble Shooting Post as well.

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2706
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old Thu 15 April 2010, 19:33
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Boom goes the Dynamite.

Well with the right contractor I have power. With one problem down comes more questions.

First one is about the geckos. When I power them up I have 2 geckos that have a Yellow and Green Led lite and the other 2 just have the Green ones lite.

Reading the manual says that I am not providing enough power to effectively use the stepper motors that should be connected to them. I have no stepper motors connected right now.

Then comes the circuit breaker that trips sometimes. I can power up and shut down a few times before it trips. Sometimes it will trip right after I power it up. Sometimes it will not. It only trips on power ups and has not done it just randomly with power on and running. What concerns me is that I have not started drawing any serious loads from the power supply so I dont know if I will have future problems or not.

Here are a few pictures to look over and I have a video loading to Youtube as I write this showing a tour and the problems.

Thanks again guys for all the help. I really am not great at electronics but am muddling my way through this.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC00943.JPG (142.7 KB, 2007 views)
File Type: jpg DSC00944.JPG (138.5 KB, 1996 views)
File Type: jpg DSC00947.JPG (141.6 KB, 1980 views)
File Type: jpg DSC00949.JPG (143.3 KB, 1977 views)
File Type: jpg DSC00948.JPG (141.9 KB, 1974 views)
File Type: jpg DSC00950.JPG (140.4 KB, 1961 views)
File Type: jpg DSC00951.JPG (141.9 KB, 1959 views)
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old Thu 15 April 2010, 20:17
cncb
Just call me: Brian
 
Connecticut
United States of America
Russell what is the circuit feeding the receptacle that you are plugging the controller into size wise? 15A, 12A? If you can get it on again try measuring the voltage and current upstream at the PSU. Also take a reading right at the geckodrive and see what you are getting on all of the drives to compare.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old Thu 15 April 2010, 20:34
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Ok guys did a little more tinkering and found that the yellow led only comes on with those 2 drives if they have the common wire running from the pmdx to the geckos attached. I am scratching my head now but I will have to do a little more searching.

Brian I have it plugged into a 30amp 230v Circuit. I then have it dummed down to 16amps through circuit breakers.

Here is the video. Its done in HD so if you give it some time it will look a lot better, just has to process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g9YrP0Jnmk
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old Thu 15 April 2010, 21:06
cncb
Just call me: Brian
 
Connecticut
United States of America
Your controller looks mighty nice! Great job. So I see your CB is tripping randomly as you cycle on and off with the power. Since it is happening at that stage it leads me to believe that the CB isn't liking the inrush current for some reason although I'm no expert. Do you know what the specs are on the CB or do you have a spec sheet/link you could post? 16A? Do you know what the trip curve is? Can I ask what your logic is having the secondary circuit breakers down stream at the controller if they are already protected at the service panel at 30A? Have you got your multimeter out and done some testing to see what is actually happening electrically while this is going on? You can learn a lot just studying the numbers. Maybe some others here will have better insight.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old Thu 15 April 2010, 21:10
cncb
Just call me: Brian
 
Connecticut
United States of America
Also any reason you didn't opt for the 12VDC output on the PSU and rather used a DIN Rail mounted power supply instead?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Register Options Profile Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pricing your work darren salyer Miscellaneous / General / Whatever / Catchall 14 Wed 28 May 2014 14:25
Would a size 23 motor work? Richards 701. Motor Drives 3 Thu 08 November 2012 10:12
Solid Cherry Bench with Redwood Inlay Greg J The Show Room 15 Sat 31 July 2010 20:49
Croatia is calling us back for a holiday in June 2010 . . . . Gerald D Miscellaneous / General / Whatever / Catchall 2 Mon 27 July 2009 06:22
serious indexer work normand blais Miscellaneous / General / Whatever / Catchall 0 Mon 02 March 2009 09:02


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.