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  #181  
Old Mon 14 July 2014, 12:21
akelemen
Just call me: Andras
 
Stäfa
Switzerland
Danilo, I am planning to build a MechMate in Hungary. May I ask you where did you order the laser cut and bent parts?

Many thanks!
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  #182  
Old Mon 14 July 2014, 12:42
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
Being from Hungary you will be better finding a laser or waterjet cutter near you to do the job then shipping heavy parcel.

And if you have a question about lasercut parts there is a thread just for that, no need to post in all european threads
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  #183  
Old Mon 14 July 2014, 12:54
akelemen
Just call me: Andras
 
Stäfa
Switzerland
Thanks for the quick reply! Actually, I posted first in a more general thread, where I received the advice to post on the threads of European builders. :-)

Can you perhaps send me the DXF files for the laser cut and bent parts so that I can contact a local company with them?
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  #184  
Old Mon 14 July 2014, 13:03
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
I think they come with the plans you buy to build the mechmate, ask Mike he is the owner (metalhead username on the forum)
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  #185  
Old Mon 14 July 2014, 14:07
akelemen
Just call me: Andras
 
Stäfa
Switzerland
I did buy the plans two days ago, but these are only the PDF files. I also asked Mike for the dxf file but haven't received an answer yet. So that I wasn't sure how others ordered their laser cut parts and started to ask around.
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  #186  
Old Mon 14 July 2014, 17:12
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
From the download section:
Quote:
If you are looking for the Laser Cut and Bent files please PM MetalHead.
So he should be able to help you with those. Hope he answers you soon.
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  #187  
Old Mon 14 July 2014, 21:11
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
Sometimes Mike is away for a few days with his Day Job.
I'm sure he'll pop in and take care of you.
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  #188  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 13:39
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
Just a teaser



1610 ballscrew
20mm round rails
spindle mount

With Am882 drives I get more than 1600 RPM on the shaft so 16.000mm/min rapid on Z axis , up or down makes no difference. The aluminium block, bearings and spindle seem too light to back drive and drop, so the Z axis stays in place without any help.
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  #189  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 13:47
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Looks well made. I am curious of the position of the spindle in the mount and how you get the 200mm of travel and still have clearances.
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  #190  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 13:50
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
I got full 200mm clearance with the longest endmill (100mm or more) and still able to touch the spoilboard with the tip of the spindle.
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  #191  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 13:52
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
I don't doubt it. Just the teaser pic have me thinking.
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  #192  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 16:18
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Looks very good Danilo, enough teasing, lets see it installed!
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  #193  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 16:25
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Heck, just a video of it running on the bench would be awesome.
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  #194  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 16:26
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
I would mount your spindle on the other side ( the long slide).
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  #195  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 17:31
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
I'm just wondering. What stepper motor brand are you using?? 1600rpm on the shaft sounds like a lot.
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  #196  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 17:37
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
The stepper driver he is using is a good one.
Lots of digital tricks inside.

Ross
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  #197  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 17:40
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
I know, I'm running the same drives on my CNC. But I'm having trouble getting much more than 600rpm from my motors without sensorless stall detection kicking in on my drives.
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  #198  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 17:40
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
I have run an AMCI stepper with a Gecko drive controlled by an Oriental Motor controller at 50 rev/sec. It all depends on the hardware and that is within the spec of the particular stepper.
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  #199  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 17:42
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Statements like that are meaningless as whatever you have set your microstepping to significantly impacts that performance.

Ross
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  #200  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 17:45
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Also weight and friction of your set up impacts on performance.
There is just not enough to go on to make any comparison.

Ross
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  #201  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 17:50
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Fair enough. I can only tell you that we were testing the limits of the drive to see if it was robust enough to be put into production. We only require a lower rev of 20 but needed to run tests on an unproven component in our setting per our engineers. We were trying to reach the stall point of the motor as our approved driver would not go above 20. I did not want to run above the spec sheet. I was only stating that they can be run faster is everything is correct. I do stand corrected Ross, sorry for the misleading post.

Last edited by pblackburn; Sat 06 September 2014 at 17:52.. Reason: spelling error
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  #202  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 17:57
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
My entire machine is running on square type rails, and they run very nicely.
But if I try to get greater speed from the motors than 600rpm, then the motors stall. I'm affraid that it might be those rather cheap chinese motors that I've got. I might save some money and get some better quality motors, perhaps even the ones from Leadshine which is pre programmed into the drives.
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  #203  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 17:58
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Hi Pete

I was referring to Kim's statement so your in the clear
Kim's post was just one of these "well mine's not working" statements that leaves a little too much to guesswork.

Ross
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  #204  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 18:01
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Hi Kim

Your supply voltage has an impact on this.

Ross
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  #205  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 18:07
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
My setup is this.

70vdc PSU
1600oz-in motors on all axis (Longsmotor)
8x microstepping.

2010 ballscrews on x and y, 1610 ballscrew on z.

Last edited by IN-WondeR; Sat 06 September 2014 at 18:09..
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  #206  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 18:24
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
I am running same motor as before Deitech 9802 on 48 volts.
I was able to run X and Y axis to around 42m/min, but I am still using 18m/min to lower the tear and wear on pinions and rack (the rack is not perfect and I get a lot of noise on higher speeds)

Fox, mounting the spindle to the longer plate is not adequate, no manufacturer in the world does it, it was the main reason to make a new Z.
First reason is that for the same clearance you need higher gantry.
Considering that the spindle body is stiff you use its strength to stretch the Z down.
Second is that plate, spindle and bearings have smaller weight to pull up than large plate, guides and spindle.
Stiffness is the same as the bearings have constant load rating.

Here are some pictures to illustrate above statements.

MULTICAM Z AXIS



Moving bearings VS moving rails, spindle position is a bit different as I experimented a bit but found that spindle in the middle of mount is satisfactory

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  #207  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 18:27
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
Also, the 90% of cutting happens while the Z i lowered all the way down.

Moving bearings has the same stiffness all the way but moving rails has lowest stiffness while lowered to do the finish cut.
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  #208  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 18:32
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
I just checked the specs on the motors you are running.

I can see the phase resistance and inductance is way different than on my longsmotors.

The Deitec 9802 has a phase inductance of only 2.4mH, where mine has 22mH, and a phase resistance of only 0.65 Ohm And mine is 1.9 Ohm. I have heard before that to high a phase inductance can cause low stall speeds.

So I'm guessing that might be the trouble with my motors.
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  #209  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 18:33
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Hi Kim

Your motor wiring also impacts on keeping torque up at higher revs.
We have a habit here of wiring only one half of the coils but bipolar parallel gives the most "power" if you have 8 wires available but demands the most from your PSU. You are already high on voltage at 70V so probably little to be gained there.

I also see that you are using 1600oz-in motors.
I have been solidly whipped trying to tune large NEMA 34 size motors in the past to run at high speed. Even to the point of assuming the motor was faulty, bought another to have the weak performance of the "big" motor continue.

My only solution to stop missed steps was to use a belt reduction, this returned the power and the motor still was able to achieve the traverse speed required all be it at a higher RPM.
On my Mechmate installing a 4:1 reduction did produce a reduction in top speed over the ungeared motor so there is no free lunch.

If you are thinking about new motors probably lots of spec reading and a reread of the motors section here on the forum might be the solution.
As you are a Leadshine fan, the next level up on drivers that has the encoder feedback, the 'Easy Servo" range has the additional ability to play catch up like a servo does.

I have tested these drives and they are a very different animal even to the setup you currently have.
The heating is very low to the point of near ambient temps unless worked hard. They also manage torque differently.
In my tests a smaller 1000 oz-in motor provided far more power the larger NEMA 34 std stepper.
This is of course expensive but as I have already confessed to replacing motors randomly to fix a problem, there is nothing worse than spending more money to have the same issue remain unsolved.

Ross
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  #210  
Old Sat 06 September 2014, 18:34
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
I think it could be friction, weight of your machine and the motors in your case Kim. I thought you could disable the stall detection somewhere in the leadshine software.

At 1600 rpm you must be loosing torque danilo ? And for a z I see not much use at those crazy speeds ?
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