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  #91  
Old Mon 30 January 2012, 13:17
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
Charles: I bought it local from a place 5 minutes from my office. It wasn't bad $1,100. But you definitively don't want them to cut the big pieces because they would have charged me twice as much. You may want to check a local place to you unless you have a way to transport it. Their delivery charges will probably kill you from here..
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  #92  
Old Mon 30 January 2012, 13:56
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
Thanks. Ill check around here then. I'm going to purchase a trailer to hook up to my car. If I can carry it all home myself I will. I'm going to cut everything myself. Finding a place local would be great because I'll be able to go and check everything to make sure it's all as true as possible. Would hate to have a bunch of warped steel to show up at my door

Another thing,... what size bolts are you using to bolt all your legs together? I'm modeling a bolt together machine. I was thinking 3/8" bolts to hold the legs to the X beams. Also, 3/8" bolts to hold the Y beams to the X beams as well. 3/8" blots are pretty hefty but we're talking about a machine that weighs a ton or more.

Last edited by cvriv.charles; Mon 30 January 2012 at 14:10..
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  #93  
Old Tue 07 February 2012, 14:45
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
Getting Closer to some Dust!!!

Attached are some pictures of the last update. I am almost done with all the wiring. I underestimated how much more wiring was left to do. I decided to run my E-Stops, Start, Resume and Prox Sensors through relays. It was a little more work to do that but I think it came out a lot nicer at the end.

I am also attaching a picture of my Z Rail Prox sensor mount. I decided to mount it a little bit different than what I have seen with an L bracket. It seems to do the trick.

Let me know what you guys think.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0270.JPG (129.9 KB, 812 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0271.JPG (86.8 KB, 812 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0273.JPG (151.3 KB, 820 views)
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  #94  
Old Tue 07 February 2012, 20:47
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
You scaring me with all that wiring! LOL. I know I will have trouble with all that. I'm definitely looking to learn though. Very nice Miguel. Good job love the colors. I'm looking to do a dual color machine as well, dark grey and orange.
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  #95  
Old Tue 07 February 2012, 23:53
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Nice work Miguel, panel looks good (if not a little intimidating)

Clever choice of position for the Z proxy. An added bonus is that if the z jams and the motor climbs out you will have the same sort of protection you would have on the other axes.(as the proxy moves away from the support tube it would trigger the limit) If it was positioned above the pinion it would be even more effective.
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  #96  
Old Wed 08 February 2012, 13:47
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Alan,
Glad you caught that too! The sensor would act like a derail on the x and y axis.
Nicely done.
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  #97  
Old Wed 08 February 2012, 15:10
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
I know it needs a lot of tuning, BUT I got Mach3 controlling the table now.. Today was a good day!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=920fGu087lY
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  #98  
Old Wed 08 February 2012, 20:59
Darin
Just call me: Darin #93
 
Clarksville, TN
United States of America
Looks Awesome! So close to done! I wouldn't be able to stop that close
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  #99  
Old Wed 08 February 2012, 23:35
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Great effort to details! Very professionally done. You should be manufacturing a lot of dust very soon!
What is that thingy with blue sticker at the top right corner of the control penal?
Charles,
Don't be intimidated by the wiring. You can always op for something simple. For a start, I reckon you can reduce the numbers of connectors & number of fuses at the 2nd top rows. What Miguel did makes trouble shooting & future "upgrades" really easy.
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  #100  
Old Thu 09 February 2012, 00:35
hflwaterski
Just call me: Herb #126
 
Genesee, WI
United States of America
Awesome job! I can only hope my build turns out anywhere close to the quality of yours. You definitely have me rethinking the size of my electrical panel though. I'm very tight on space and can't do anything nearly as elegant.
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  #101  
Old Fri 10 February 2012, 02:54
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Hi Miguel

Thanks for the video BUT every time I see an MM with belt reductions, it reminds me I still have that outstanding .
You get an ear for your own machine rather quickly and to hear those motors humming away at 4x my RPM, all I hear is increased precision.

Absolutely top job, it is good for the Mechmate brand to have builds like yours on the forum.

I really like the Z proxy holding method. As Alan says moving the proxy past the pinion will also give an effective EStop when the pinon jumps out of the rack.
I regularly use my Z axis pinion as a grinder and it is not a good thing !!

The enthusiasm you have shown will be rewarded many times over with what your machine will soon produce for you.
As they say so often on the forum "now the learning begins".
Enjoy the journey and remember to charge your mates for all their crazy ideas the want made on the Mechmate.

Well done

Ross
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  #102  
Old Fri 10 February 2012, 17:05
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
Thank you guys!!!.. Your comments are very welcomed.

@Charles: The wiring is actually not that bad, I will promise you that. It seems like there is a lot of wiring but as Ken said, I wired it like that because I think it will make it easier for troubleshooting and upgrades.

@Alan & Sean: You have to excuse me but I don't understand the position over the pinion. Can you maybe explain? I am just not seeing it . I think it may be worth mentioning that I have a Bolt in the middle of Z Axis (You can see i in the picture) that acts as a Z Limit and will physically prevent the Z from shooting up. Is this what you are talking about?


@Ken: Thank you!.. I am getting very close to dust. I have the spindle connected to the machine but my 220V outlet is only 2Phase and I need a 3 Phase. I am going to to convert the outlet to a 30AMP 3 Phase tomorrow. The wiring I have there is already good enough since it's 10 AWG. So I am replacing the 2 Pole breaker in the breaker panel with a 3 Pole one and rewiring my Neutral wire into other phase and we should be good to go.. Also, the BLUE "Thingie" hehehe is a 24VDC power supply that feeds the RESUME, STOP AND E-STOP CIRCUIT. I deviated a little bit from the Start/Stop circuit that I have seen in the forums. I was able to use 4 Total wires for my E-Stop, Stop and Resume buttons . Then with a DPDT Relay I am able to not only to give a 12VDC (GND) signal to the PMDX for the E-STOP/RESUME/STOP but I am also able to have a true E-STOP that cuts the Power to my box. My 12VDC feeds my Prox Switches and Prox Relays but I didn't want to stress the power supply. I will also use it for the relays that are going to go in my VFD cabinet.

@Herb: If I was to do the box over again I think I would change two things. 1) I wouldnt necesarily mount the power supply flat on the back plate. I would mount it with some kind of L bracket so I would have a little bit more room for other components. 2) I would mount the Gecko drives on the right hand side wall of the box with the Aluminum Heat Sink, leaving me a lot more room inside the box. My box is 30x20 (maybe 32x20) but I have used ever inch of it as you can see.

@Ross: I do have to give you a LOT of credit because although I have read a lot of the threads from different builders I have probably memorized every word on yours and printed a lot of the pictures. THANK YOU FOR REALLY SHARING YOUR BUILD.. Your build definetally inspired me to continue with mine every step of the way. Although I was able to read the plans from Gerald (GREAT JOB BTW!!. I CANT THANK YOU ENOUGH EITHER), I like to see pictures. So I attribute a lot of my success to your build. There has been many times when I was looking at your thread and my kids would be sitting next to me that they said "Dad, You are building us one of those Skate boards, right?", of course now that the machine is pretty much done they are asking me "When are you doing it!!?.." Thank you for your kind words, they mean a lot!!

And last but not least, Thank You Mike (MetalHead)!!! for running a great site and all your help sourcing parts along the way. AND ALL the great people on this forums for sharing your builds!!.. A BIG THANK YOU!!!
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  #103  
Old Sat 11 February 2012, 01:51
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
If the Z axis should jam against anything (a misplaced clamp, off cut on the table or trying to plunge with the router off), the motor pinion will continue to try and turn, as the Z axis is now jammed, the pinion will climb out of the rack and the motor plate will pivot away from the rack until the pinion has rotated past the tooth of the rack and then fall back in. It will keep doing this until you either stop it or the machine thinks it has reached the depth it was aiming at.

Your arrangement of the sensor is a good one as the sensor will move away from the tube if the Z jams and the pinion keeps rotating which in turn will pivot the motor plate and attached sensor away. If you mount the sensor above the pinion (i.e. further away from the plate pivot point) the distance that the sensor will move away from the tube will be increased and will trigger the limit earlier which in turn will give greater protection to your machine.

Hope that explains it better.
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  #104  
Old Sat 11 February 2012, 21:20
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
Alan;

Perfect explanation. Thank you.... Now I see the light .

I have started designing a little operator console for my MM. The enclosure will house a 17" Touch screen, Mini-ITX computer and a little operator panel for buttons.

Let me know what you guys think
Attached Images
File Type: png OperatorConsole.png (57.0 KB, 666 views)
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  #105  
Old Sun 12 February 2012, 05:41
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Hey that looks cool !!
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  #106  
Old Sat 18 February 2012, 09:02
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
Cooling Air Gun Mounted

I received the Cool Air Gun yesterday and although I don't have the spindle working yet I figured I would see how it could be mounted. Well, I think Gerald designed the Y Car with it in mind because it fits there PERFECTLY. I also was feeling bad that there was no blue on the machine so I picked up a 3/8" hose for the gun (rated at 300psi) from the local home depot. I have attached some pictures to show the installation. I am planning on having a quick connect/detach on both ends of the hose since it will probably not be used most of the time.

I was playing a little with the gun by simply connecting it to the compressor and I think it may work just fine. The max rating on the pressure is 155PSI and it says that you can run it at 3-3.5 CFM. Fortunately my compressor can do 5 CFM.

I am working on getting the VFD wired today, something that should have been done already but my paying job took precedence this week.

Ohhh. And I added the name stickers..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0274.JPG (111.0 KB, 578 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0275.JPG (84.7 KB, 586 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0276.JPG (94.1 KB, 587 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0278.JPG (111.2 KB, 591 views)
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  #107  
Old Sat 18 February 2012, 16:08
hflwaterski
Just call me: Herb #126
 
Genesee, WI
United States of America
Very cool stuff. Nice work as usual.
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  #108  
Old Sun 19 February 2012, 16:21
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
R.i.p. Vfd:(

R.I.P HITACHI X200 VFD

Miguel's VFD, also known as "Hitachi X200", died on the afternoon of Sunday, February 19, in its home in Randolph, NJ. It began having health issues during its installation on Miguel's MechMate. Possible causes of death include incorrect wiring of 3 phase 220VAC into the motor side of things. The VFD and accompanying enclosure shared 43 minutes of glory with the MechMate table. It enjoyed a quick minute of breeze from the cooling fan before the magic smoke came to shine. Viewing hours for a replacement VFD will be Monday afternoon at the eBay.com website. In lieu of flowers, the family requests that donations technical and wiring documentation will be send to my PM box.

YUP, I did it.. I managed to smoke my VFD from just plain STUPIDITY and not reading the manual!!!. I guess sometimes you learn the hard way. Oh well.

While I am waiting for a replacement one, I have a question. I am (will be anyway) running a 5HP 3Phase VFD to connect my Air Cooled 3KW Chinese spindle. What awg wire should I run from the VFD to the spindle? I have 12AWG going to a 20AMP 3 Pole breaker now for VFD.

Thanks in advance
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  #109  
Old Sun 19 February 2012, 17:44
WTI
Just call me: James
 
Detroit (Michigan)
United States of America
Sorry to hear about your mishap. Too bad Gecko does not make a X200v that could not be killed if mis-wired.

Shielded 4 conductor 14 awg is what we used from the X200 to the spindle.

We had single phase 220v so the x200 manual said 10g wire and 30A breaker.
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  #110  
Old Sun 19 February 2012, 17:57
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
James; Thanks... It's a lesson learned.. Expensive lesson, but a lesson nonetheless.

What kind of spindle do you have? I think at single phase the X200 can only put out 3HP that's why I am going with the three phase. Also, I am guessing by three phase they mean 110VAC on each phase, right? I mean I have three phases coming into my panel but each phase is 110VAC. From Hot to Hot it's 220V. So I was running 3 hots to the vfd...right?
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  #111  
Old Sun 19 February 2012, 18:15
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Sorry to hear about your dead VFD. In order to select the wire gauge, we should translate the HP or KW values into amperage, and then choose the wire gauge to carry that amperage without undue heating.

So, from http://www.cnczone.com/forums/770701-post622.html we glean that
your 3 KW spindle wants about 8 amps.

Checking a good amperage table http://donsnotes.com/home_garden/wire.html we see that somewhere between 20 AWG and 12 AWG is appropriate. You want good flexibility, no heating, and good insulation; a good quality 14 or 16 AWG cable should work well.

Or, as a shortcut, one could reason that 220VAC 3 phase comes in, and 220VAC 3 phase comes out, so if you matched the 12AWG from the input, you'd be fine - and you would, but it would be overkill.
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  #112  
Old Sun 19 February 2012, 18:28
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
Thanks Brad!.. Very helpful links.

Quote:
Or, as a shortcut, one could reason that 220VAC 3 phase comes in, and 220VAC 3 phase comes out, so if you matched the 12AWG from the input, you'd be fine - and you would, but it would be overkill.
That last line is what confuses me (Not you). Why do I need lower AWG wire going out than going in? I *think* it's probably the same principle as the wiring at home, I have 14-16awg wire coming into the outlets but my lamp uses 18awg wire.

One last thing. When they talk about 3Phase 220V they mean 3 Hot 110vac going into the VFD, right?
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  #113  
Old Sun 19 February 2012, 18:29
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Oh oh -> Miguel, do you actually have 3 phase service? Most residences have single phase service; if the voltage between two hot legs is twice that between a leg and a neutral, you have single phase service. Single phase service arrives as two hots and a neutral; 3 phase (wye) service arrives as three hots and a neutral. See http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9202958AAKJkjf

I'll assume that you do have single phase service. In that case, you will need to feed two hots, not three to the VFD, and the amperage on each will be around 12 amps. You may also have to move up to a larger VFD, or accept the 3HP (2.2KW) limit. I see that Hitachi doesn't approve it's larger VFDs for single phase input, so you may want to consult with a vendor for their recommendation.
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  #114  
Old Sun 19 February 2012, 18:31
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
The wire AWG is chosen for the maximum amperage that might come from the source. Since the breakers might feed you up to 20A continuously, and the wire might be buried in a wall where heating would be very bad, the specification is for #12. Since the output of the VFD is limited to a lower amperage (8,10,12 amps or so, depends on the size of VFD and how you configure it), those wires can be a smaller gauge because they'll never see the higher amperages.
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  #115  
Old Sun 19 February 2012, 18:44
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
Brad.. I am actually installing this at my office/warehouse. We have three phase coming in (I verified this). I already had an outlet with 3 phase + ground wired so I could connect the VFD to it. I have also found out by talking to an electrician that I am not allowed to have an extension cord longer than 3ft running on the ground with 3 hots so I need to get a disconnect box and hard wire the VFD into the disconnect box.

Right now so far what I have is a 3 Pole 30AMP Breaker running into an outlet with NO Neutral. The outlet also has a ground wire.
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  #116  
Old Sun 19 February 2012, 18:59
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
@Brad: Also, THANK YOU for that yahoo link. That explanation pretty much cleared up all the questions I had about 120/240. I guess here in the USA 220/240 comes into the panel different than the way it comes in Spain(started with electric there)... that's where I was a little confused.
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  #117  
Old Mon 20 February 2012, 05:13
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
If you have 110V live to neutral, and 220V live to live, then you do not have 3-phase.

With true 3-phase, the live to live is about 1.7 times the voltage live to neutral.
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  #118  
Old Mon 20 February 2012, 07:55
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
@Gerald; I have verified that I have 3 phase. I checked from Hot to neutral and I get 121V, if I go from Hot to Hot I get 209V. I knew I was getting three phase into my breaker box because here in the US they typically will mark the phases with a Black, Red and Blue tape around the cable which I have.

Thanks for the explanation about the 1.7times. I now understand why that is ..
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  #119  
Old Mon 20 February 2012, 10:09
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Ah, that all sounds correct then. "208/120v" is the common description of that 3 phase service in the US, and the black/red/blue is also standard. "120/240 or 110/220" describes a single phase, and thus set off alarm bells for a few minutes.

You should be good to go with your 3 pole 20A breaker into 12AWG into L1,L2,L3 of your X200, with a ground. Then U,V,W out over 16 or 14 AWG (or 12 if you want) to your spindle.
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  #120  
Old Mon 20 February 2012, 13:19
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
SOME DUST!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8JmE8OFjY4

So I figured while I wait for the new Hitachi VFD that I would at least try the Chinese Spindle I had.. ...

I now know why you need a Dust Collector!!!...
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