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  #451  
Old Sat 08 March 2014, 05:49
lonestaral
Just call me: Al #114
 
Isarn
Thailand
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Yes, nice to see what the builders and users get up to.
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  #452  
Old Tue 13 May 2014, 21:23
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Pretty sure I fried the Y axis motor.

So tonight I was cutting a job out and everything was going fine until.........

The Y axis motor started to make a strange sound. Didnt sound bad but was not the normal sound I am use to hearing while the machine is cutting. I stopped the machine and checked everything. Motor was just as warm as the rest. Still had plenty of holding torque so I figured we are good to go. Turned the machine back on and let it finish out its job.

Turned around after the machine was done cutting to noticed that the Y car had parked in the wrong position.

Well it looks like the machine cut the whole job without moving the Y axis at all. So I checked the Spur Gears, Drive belt gears to make sure nothing was loose. Then I noticed the motor was hot. I mean hot enough that I couldn't even touch it. Turned everything off for 30 minutes to let cool and turned it back on. The machine allowed me to complete a homing sequence before the Y axis quite again. Motor Temp was to hot to touch again.

So now I sit and wait for a new motor to show up. Gecko drive did show a Red and Green LED light. Basically a broken wire some where in the system. I did notice that the Belt drive belt tension was extremely tight. I think this might have something to do with the short life of the motor but I could be wrong.

Morale of the story is buy an extra motor and leave it on the shelf for these kinds of days. Been telling myself for a few years now to do it but just havent.
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  #453  
Old Wed 14 May 2014, 20:45
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
Is it possible a wire shorted in the cable chain and burned up the motor, or is that what you are telling us?
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  #454  
Old Wed 14 May 2014, 22:03
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Darren I am almost certain it is the Stepper Motor. Reason being is the actaul motor has no more resistance when being pushed. I can almost free spin the motor with my fingers. If I remember correctly it is suppose to build a charge while spinning and offer up some holding force.
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  #455  
Old Thu 15 May 2014, 00:00
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Remove the motor connections, short out all the motor wires to each other, if the spindle holds torque, its still ok.
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  #456  
Old Thu 15 May 2014, 04:01
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
Check the capacitor of the power supply, try adding a 1000uF electrolytic cap at the drive end parallel to powersupply - ( see if provides any soln)

I have faced similar situation where it started with the Y motors then leading to all drives to error out - it was a capacitor failure.
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  #457  
Old Thu 15 May 2014, 04:17
Axel1966
Just call me: Axel
 
Paris
France
What about opening the motor and have a look at the inside ? If it spins freely, it's dead anyway.
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  #458  
Old Thu 15 May 2014, 06:08
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
first check it with multimeter for continuity between phases, disconnect cable from drive and from motors, then check cable and motor.

Don't try another drive if its short circuit it may damage another drive
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  #459  
Old Thu 15 May 2014, 09:29
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Thanks guys I will try everyone's advise later today. Either way new motors will be here Monday and I have plenty of wire left over from the build. Will let you guys know later today what I find.
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  #460  
Old Thu 15 May 2014, 20:21
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
So Im more confused more than ever.

I disconnected the Y axis motor from the machine and set it down on a bench. I tested both A&B phases for continuity and it had it. All phases had about a 1. Ohm of resistance.

I shorted all the wires together and the motor did lock up.

I checked the wires for continuity and none of the wires are broken.

I check the resistor and it was right but I decided to replace it anyways for good measure. (I also have 100 of them)

I disconnected all wires from the Y Axis Gecko 203V driver and turned power on. This gave an indication of Green (No Red)

I connected the Y axis Stepper Motor directly to they Y axis driver and turned on power. This indicated a Red and Green LED.

I connected the Y axis Stepper Motor directly to the X axis driver and this gave me a Green only indication. (No Red)

I connected the X axis motor to the Y axis driver and this gave me a Green LED.

Scratching my head I thought I must have messed something up so I reconnected the Y axis motor to the Y axis driver. Gave me a Green and Red LED indication.

Connected the X axis Motor back up the Y axis driver and this gave me a Green and Red LED this time.

Connected X axis Motor to X axis driver and this gave me just a Green LED.

According to the manual

EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED, RED INDICATOR STAYS LIT: If the RED and GREEN indicator LEDs are lit then the motor is miswired, the motor has a wire shorted to ground, is shorted to another motor wire or the motor is bad
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  #461  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 00:40
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Despair not! At least you found out the motor is in good condition.

pull out your multimeter again & check the continuity of each cable. while you are doint that have very close inspection of the wires, look for loose wires.

The problem is always hidden in plain sight.
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  #462  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 06:18
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Ken,
Last night I checked for continuity on all the wires in the control box and on the machine. I even pull Y axis driver and swapped it over to a X axis position and put the X axis driver in the Y position. The problem followed the driver to its new position.

I pulled the cover off of the faulting driver and couldnt see anything burnt or broken. New driver will be here Wednesday. The manual states there is a fuse on driver so I will look tonight and pull it to see if it might be bad.

Irfan, I have not discarded your suggestion. I just dont have the required material laying around. 2 new capacitors are only 20 dollars and I can easily swap them out. I just dont have a way to check to see if they are bad. Ie not capacitor meter.
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  #463  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 06:26
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
You found 2 things, your motor AND cable is fine.!!

now its pointing at your driver & up stream, maybe the BOB, LPT cable & LPT port.

No experience with Gecko 203... I use economical drivers.

I assumed you checked your LPT cable is not loosen.

Last edited by KenC; Fri 16 May 2014 at 06:33..
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  #464  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 06:28
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
You should probably move your gantry and y car a few times and recheck continuity of your wires.
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  #465  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 13:22
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Ken, Seeing I have all kinds of time on my hands I went around last night and tightened anything and everything that was loose. Have to say I am pretty impress how well the machine is holding up as god only knows I dont check things often enough.

I did check everything inside the box for looseness and did swap positions of the drive. The problem is still following the Y axis driver. Everything should be here on Monday so I will let you know the final verdict.

During my search for answers last night I did come across a nice trouble shooting tree that should help others with Gecko Drives.





On another note for anyone that is still building your control box I would have to say think ahead and plan on yourself having to replace everything inside that box at one point. The way I wired my drives in has made it super simple to replace and re-position. Now if I had only followed that advice up to the machine. I soldered every connection as I was worried about loose connections. Swapping a motor out is a real pain in the ass for now. Already have parts on order to make it right this time.
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  #466  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 13:34
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
Great info. Thanks for sharing, we all learn something from these types of situations.
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  #467  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 16:38
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Based on what has been written, I have a couple of hypotheses:

1) The Y driver has gone flaky.
2) The Y cable has a (possibly intermittent) short or broken connection AND you made wiring errors when you connected the Y axis motor and the X axis motor to the Y driver for their second tests following the unexpected green with the X axis motor and the Y driver.

Both of these explain an operational machine (which clearly wasn't miswired) subsequently failing, but then both motor and drive checking out okay on the bench.

You should make sure to turn the power off, and then do the continuity checks A to /A and B to /B if when you see the green/red in any given configuration. If the continuity fails, you've miswired, have bad connections, or bad wires. If it passes, you've got a flaky drive, which may have an internal loose connection, or a bad component.

Last edited by bradm; Fri 16 May 2014 at 16:39.. Reason: Pluralize correctly.
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  #468  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 17:12
DocTanner
Just call me: Don Ross
 
Blue Ridge, Texas
United States of America
I had a similar problem a few years ago. After checking everything, it must be the driver.
Replaced driver. No luck.
Problem went away after changing computer. <- apparently parallel port was flakey.

DonRoss
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  #469  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 17:25
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
I can say that I would suspect the cable to the stepper. However drivers are known to fail. Finding a broken wire can be nerve racking. When I think the wire is a possible problem, I hook up a temporary and run a test program. We use circular connectors were I work to hook up stepper motors. Only bad part is you are now relying on a pin and sleeve to make a connection that may loosen or corrode over time. I have seen both. Some drivers will become junk if that happens.
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  #470  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 21:40
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Tonight I again rechecked everything.

I installed the Y axis driver in 4 different positions with 4 different motors and the results where the same. RED and GREEN LED's Illuminated.

I made a series connection with the Y axis motor and installed a Multi Meter on the control box end with the beep sound on. Ran the Y car back and forth by hand listening to see if the beep went away. 10 minutes later of going fast and super slow the wire never lost continuity.

Don new driver will be here Monday and I tell you what if it is the computer I will take a baseball bat to it. I just find it funny that the one driver will fault in 4 different positions and I would think the breakout board would stop any funny business.

Pete, I work around Cannon Plugs all day long and they keep me alive in some of the most harshest environment I can think off. To counter the corrosion issue with them Have a look at Mil-C-81039 Type ii. Company name is So Sure. We never really have problems with the pins corroding but more of the back side of the shell.
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  #471  
Old Fri 16 May 2014, 21:54
timberlinemd
Just call me: Steve #66
 
Arizona
United States of America
Besides continuity, did you check each motor wire to ground of the motor case?
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  #472  
Old Sat 17 May 2014, 00:36
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I do not suspect the cable & motor, the issue looks like its lies somewhere from the driver up to the PC.
For good measure, Register-Cleaner your Win XP. check the parallel port before you pull everything in to pieces.
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  #473  
Old Sat 17 May 2014, 05:20
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
I remember seeing that the sliding connector on gecko drive failed and caused this kind of error? Can you check that? Sometime it builds up resistance and causes heat to melt the plastic around

Recently my friend had a similar situation on M860 Leadshine, in his case there was a bit of corrosion on contacts.
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  #474  
Old Sat 17 May 2014, 06:39
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Russell, I will have a look at those. We mostly use Amphenol Mil Spec connectors but I am not opposed to something that works better.

Ken brings up some good points. Is this computer a standalone unit that is not connected to the internet? Does it have any other use other than running your CNC? Was anything installed prior to this occurring? I think it was Ken who said the problem is usually hidden in plain sight. At this point if I have read your posts correctly, you have rewired the driver to different axes and the problem moved to those axes respectfully. If that is what you are seeing then I would lean toward the driver. Just my two cents.
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  #475  
Old Sat 17 May 2014, 07:23
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Wink

Hi Russell and Others

When electronics gets a bit flaky it can sometimes give contrary results.
I would assume your second fault of a green and red on the x axis connected to the y axis driver was the "correct" fault state.

I might be missing something here so excuse me if that is the case.
How come you have not moved say an x axis driver to the Y axis wiring and actually made the Y axis move.
Just disable all the other motors in mach3 ports and pins, motor outputs and you have a one axis cnc you can test all day.
That also confirms the PC, BOB and cabling to the driver are all good.

Seeing as the new drive is arriving soon probably all too late now but for future reference it might be the go.
I laughed when you said you needed a spare motor and driver as that is exactly what I have sitting in my parts bin .

Regards
Ross
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  #476  
Old Sat 17 May 2014, 20:38
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Ross. This morning I did move the X axis drive to the Y axis position and moved the Y axis car around for 2 hours to make sure it worked as described. During this time the drive that might be faulty was hooked up to the X axis position so I didnt have any loose wires. During this 2 hours I had a Green and Red LED on the X axis position while the Y axis motor had no problem at all with the X axis driver.

Break for lunch and shut down the machine.

Turn the machine back on and guess what all drives have Green LEDS. The machine has been air cutting 3" circles all over the table for 6 hours now with no problems. I have tried 50, 150 300 and 500 ipm just trying to make it fail again. I have turned off and on the machine multiple times with no error recurring. I know why I never will become a Electrical Engineer. This would make me go insane in no time.

Good news though. I have always been worried on how well my home made cyclone was gonna work out. I can safely report its is doing a great job of separating the dust. I have noticed that it does slow down the amount of velocity in the system but this is much better than the bag and felt filter. Pictures are going to show a full cyclone, and very little dust in the filter. There is some but for the amount it did get out it was impressive.
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg IMG_2243 (Custom).JPG (37.2 KB, 368 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2244 (Custom).JPG (27.7 KB, 368 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2245 (Custom).JPG (39.4 KB, 368 views)

Last edited by Regnar; Sat 17 May 2014 at 20:44..
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  #477  
Old Sat 17 May 2014, 20:45
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Russell, I agree with building a cyclone. I put it off until I was cutting a good bit of MDF and boy did I notice the dust layer a day later. After talking with Bill Pentz and Dick Wynn then finalizing the one I should build with which filters, Wow what a difference. All the dust in the bin and none at the filters. I am glad you are having good luck also.
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  #478  
Old Sat 17 May 2014, 21:14
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Intermittent problems are the worst, no matter what vocation you are in.

One thing I did not see mentioned (or I missed seeing) with respect to the wiring is checking for shorts between the cable wires and the shield ground.

Assuming you are using a shielded cable, a break in the wiring insulation could create a intermittent short. To test that, you will need to disconnect the wire at both ends and test continuity to the shield ground. Any less than an open would be a problem.

You may want to inspect closely where you were trimming insulation while installing an make sure you did not nick the wiring insulation. That could provide a way for an intermittent short to the shield ground to occur.
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  #479  
Old Sun 18 May 2014, 14:09
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Wink

So time for a Update. Yesterday I switched drivers and connected the X axis driver up to the Y driver and ran Y axis back and forth for 2 hours. No signs of trouble at any speed. The motor was able to get to 60 degree's Celcius.

I took a break for lunch and shut the machine down.

When I came back to play around some more all the drivers had a Green LEDs.

So I shut the machine down and restarted it 6 different times. Every time all the drivers have turned on with Green LEDs

For the next six hours I had the machine air cut 3 inch circles at different speeds ranging from 50 ipm up to 500 ipm to try give the machine a work out.

So highest temperature recorded was on the Y axis motor at 61 degrees Celsius and the drivers never made it above 37 degrees. The lowest temps are of course the X axis at 31 for the controller and 53 for the motor. Ambient temperature in the garage is 24.6 degrees Celsius.

Today I have ran a 6 hours cut file with no hiccups to speak of. Whats worse than having something broken. Well its having something that might be broken and you dont know when its going to show its ugly head again. Good news is on Monday I will have a spare of everything to swap out for next time.
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  #480  
Old Sun 18 May 2014, 14:21
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Sorry to hear about all of your headaches. But if you were ever considering adding another axis to your machine...now you've got the parts
Best of luck
Mark
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