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  #1  
Old Thu 28 January 2010, 01:39
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
HuanYang VFD, A.K.A. The Cheap Chinese VFD

AFAIK, there are more then a few MM builders owned the inexpensive Huayang VFD + Spindle off the ebay.

Discussion were initiated but information is scatted all over the forum. BUT there really isn't much in-depth discussion of the usage of the VFD.

IMHO, it would be most beneficial if we would discuss the VFD & spindle separately.

Before this, I read VFD Manual.pdf many times over but only found them great hypnotizing material BUT last night I some how see some light shining through those boring tech writing.

There are more then just turning on/off, that we can do from the motion control software, (Mech3 or EMC2) and there are more to the supply voltage & the simple contactor.... They can be set up to have external spindle control button, start & manage the cooling pumps, set up a PID loop for the motor.... and many of these criteria are common to all make of VFDs.

I hope this will spin off with input from others.

Let me start my little summary (AFAIK) with the Installation,
Type of Voltage supply,
Huayang VFD takes 3-phase power if there are 3 input terminals, R, S, T.
We can supply single phase to the VFD by connecting only 2 of the R, S, T terminals but need to de-rate the VFD, by multiplying the rated power of the VFD by sqrt(2/3).
When they say 380V in the manual, it really meant voltage range of 360~440V, similarly 220V is 160~250
One can select whatever supply type by setting the
Supply line,
1) Don't install switch before the VFD, especially magnetic contactor as ON/OFF control of the main supply, i.e. no magnetic contactors connecting to R, S, T terminals. If you must, use a Non-Fuse Breaker (NFD).
2) If you can, use dedicated power line for the VFD, or second best, don't share with heavy load fluctuation equipment such as welding machine.
Output line
1) Nothing should be connected between the VFD & the motor/spindle.
2) IF output line is >15m, one must install a reactor.
3) Any (correctly rated) 3-phase AC Induction motors can be connected to the VFD, Can sellect output voltage by setting PD008
See here for more details of the setting

Then there is the Main & Control connection circuit for the Main & control terminal like this one from the manual
Huayang VFD Terminal connection circuit.jpg

The terminals are hidden behind the face panel, mine look like this,
VFD terminals.jpg

huayang VFD manual abstract.pdfis an abstract of the description of the terminal functions.

I recon this is enough for a starter, hope eveyone can chim in to cover my short fall.

Ciao
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  #2  
Old Thu 28 January 2010, 03:45
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Ken, you have a serious spelling mistake: It should be Huanyang and not Huayang. Search this forum for Huanyang and discover that quite a lot has been mentioned already.
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  #3  
Old Thu 28 January 2010, 04:17
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Now that make sense! No wonder I didn't get much when I searched...

Do you want to remove this thread or place it somewhere else? I'm ok with it.
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  #4  
Old Thu 28 January 2010, 05:24
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Let's leave this thread here for a while and see what it attracts. However, you can do us all a favour by copying useful pieces of info to this thread - just give a link where you copied it from.
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  #6  
Old Thu 28 January 2010, 06:04
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
First on my list of stupid question is , how do we go about selecting the braking resistor size & rating .
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  #7  
Old Fri 05 February 2010, 13:43
WFY
Just call me: Buzz #60
 
Pembroke, Ontario
Canada
Hi Ken,
I have one of these too. Right now I am running it by the front panel. I did try wiring to a relay for start and run from Mach3. This worked ok until I ran the table surfacing file. When the load picked up on the spindle the connection between the Smooth stepper and the BOB was lost. I found that the shield on the cable power supply to the motor from the VFD was connected at both ends which eliminated the shielding and locked up Mach3 and the ss. Only connect one end of the shield cable to ground and it works fine. I'm sure that some one has stated the shielding connection on one end before. That is about as far as I have gotten. Have you had any luck on the breaking resistor?
Buzz
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  #8  
Old Fri 05 February 2010, 15:59
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Buzz,

you would usually connect shielding on the end that 'sends' the signal. in this case it would be the VFD, then shield at the motor end would then be left open and not connected.

Ries
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  #9  
Old Fri 05 February 2010, 17:30
WFY
Just call me: Buzz #60
 
Pembroke, Ontario
Canada
Thanks, Ries - I am backward to that. The shield is at the motor end. I will change that tomorrow.
Buzz
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  #10  
Old Fri 05 February 2010, 20:46
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
EE engineers always say ground the shield at the source, but in fact if you can't do that for any reasons, grounding at the load end works as too. What we need is a Faraday's cage to take effect, the shield being metal conductor hence the cage & grounding at one single point will turn it into a faraday's cage.
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  #11  
Old Fri 05 February 2010, 21:04
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
I am starting to believe that motors (which don't suffer ground loop problems) should have the shield grounded at both ends. Suggest you try it. (See this post)
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  #12  
Old Fri 05 February 2010, 21:16
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Shielding at both ends will not have the Faraday's cage effect, in fact the shield will become part of the EMI transmission antennae...
Faradays Cage
Antennae
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  #13  
Old Fri 05 February 2010, 22:07
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Gerald,

may be the motor itself will not suffer from ground loop problems, however the rest of your electronics, specially micro electronics (PC, BoB, Drivers) might suffer from a more dirty ground, remember that the 'ground' and the loop has a much higher impedance at these frequencies generated by the spindle + steppers then you would measure with your Ohm meter.

Most important is not to ground any cable of the Bob/PC/Printer cable, anything before the Gecko with any ground plate or ground that is found within your control box. The PC and BoB needs to be separated from ground, because the gecko drivers are opto-isolated.

However, it's true that you can make complete studies out of this and EM in general, what will work for some, might not work for the other (obvious there are general rules to follow). I did notice that the overall system we use is not very sensitive to EM (I don't have experiences with spindles though). My system is well grounded throughout the system, however due to my cable restrictions in Ecuador, I don't have any shields on my cables and everything runs (so far) just fine.

Tomorrow I will have a call with my bro if he is at home, he did study this stuff a bit and has been designing similar systems (although with higher amps).

@Ken: Faraday talks more about discharges (like thunder strikes a car, and you are suppose to be safe) then antenna systems.
In our case we basically talk about lowering the impedance for signals of higher frequencies that are unwanted within our system and leading them away, it's more closer related to antenna and coil/resonance systems then faraday.

Ries
PS: it's been a whole since I did electronics stuff, correct me if I am wrong
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  #14  
Old Fri 05 February 2010, 22:40
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Ries, Faraday cage are use to shield off EMI to provide a "clear" RF & EMI environment, it can stop RF & thunderbolt too...
some interesting images

In summery when you have a loop of wire or metal strip that is very slender, (Shield of the shielding cable is slender as the length is very long with respect to its diameter or width), it become an antenna.

Last edited by KenC; Fri 05 February 2010 at 22:45..
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  #15  
Old Sat 06 February 2010, 02:51
MattyZee
Just call me: Matt
 
Adelaide
Australia
In these circumstances the effect of a long single-ended shield is a better antenna than a dual ended shielded cable.

Basic neccessity for these chinese noisy VFDs are:
-dual ended shielding for spindle<->VFD cable
-common mode choke (torroidal ferrite) on motor<->VFD cable
-EMI suppression filter on power input to VFD.
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  #16  
Old Sat 06 February 2010, 05:01
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Time finally come for me to set up my VFD kitchen table project...

No luck... got stuck at setting the PDXXX values...
managed to move up & down the PDXXX list & see the set value, but couldn't alter the set values... tried all buttons but the value wouldn't budge... Help please!!!

BTW, I can only scroll decremental address number with the DOWN button, can not scroll incrementally using the UP arrow. Is that normal?

Last edited by KenC; Sat 06 February 2010 at 05:08..
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  #17  
Old Sat 06 February 2010, 05:25
MattyZee
Just call me: Matt
 
Adelaide
Australia
Ken, check the value of PD000 is set to 0. If its set to 1 then all parameters are locked and can't be changed.
I'm pretty sure i can increment AND decrement. not sure whats going on there...
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  #18  
Old Sat 06 February 2010, 05:52
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I pressed
1. Press <PROG> see <Pd000> with the last digit flashing
2. press <SET> see <0> flashing
So it is set to 0?

From here, if I press <SET> once, I'll get <Pd001>, press <SET> again & set value, repeat & I'll see Pdxxx number increment, press the DOWN button & I can decrease the adress number but the UP button nothing happen.

Is this normal?
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  #19  
Old Sat 06 February 2010, 06:30
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I suspect the UP button is faulty... I can only decrease some content values but not increament...

Need to confirm if I'm unlucky b4 I inform the seller.
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  #20  
Old Fri 12 February 2010, 13:30
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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The grounding discussion has been moved to: Grounding or Earthing
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  #21  
Old Mon 01 March 2010, 00:09
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
WARNING!

DON"T buy from ebay seller love-happyshopping, DON"T!!!

They do not honor the warranty & never bother to reply with tech inquiry.

Guess I got burn real bad this time.....
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  #22  
Old Mon 01 March 2010, 05:55
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Ken,

the Chinese supplier in general are not know to be very supportive on tech support. Essentially you buy from China without warrantee and that's really the whole strategy if CHina buy/sales. If it doesn't work you buy a new one, there stuff is that cheap, but sorry to hear....

Ries
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  #23  
Old Mon 01 March 2010, 06:21
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I'm mentally prepared for this, but its always disappointing when things like this happened. I normally will go through Hong Kong suppliers for chinese goods, as a layer of assurance especially with "big ticket" item of over USD500. But this time I to ebay is as good a protection, but hell, they are as useless & impossible to open a dispute case...
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  #24  
Old Tue 02 March 2010, 05:12
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Ken,

If you paid with a Credit Card you can file a case with them.

Just a thought.
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  #25  
Old Tue 02 March 2010, 13:16
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
Ken, I read somewhere on the zone that these VFD's had problem with the switches, try replacing these - may be that will help
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  #26  
Old Tue 02 March 2010, 21:46
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Thanks for the heads up. Really appriciate that.

Mike, I paid with paypal & ebay did suggested to claim refund through paypal, still searching the right channel to do that.
Irfan, I'm electronically handicapped & I wish I know how to go about switches. Or you can point me the right direction?

Any help is highly appreciated.
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  #27  
Old Wed 03 March 2010, 03:31
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
its some where here - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=273

but i am not able to get the right thread
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  #28  
Old Wed 03 March 2010, 20:03
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Thanks Irfan, will do my bit to screen through.

Cheers
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  #29  
Old Fri 25 June 2010, 06:02
joepardy
Just call me: Joe
 
Lebanon, OH
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyZee View Post
Basic neccessity for these chinese noisy VFDs are:
-dual ended shielding for spindle<->VFD cable
-common mode choke (torroidal ferrite) on motor<->VFD cable
-EMI suppression filter on power input to VFD.
MattyZee,

I am in the process of purchasing the components to hookup and shield a spindle/VFD just like yours and I want to make sure I have the correct components.

- Dual ended shielding: Assume this is a typical shielded wire with the shield tied to ground at both the VFD and the Spindle. What size wire (guage) are you using? 3 conductor or 4?
- Common mode choke: What choke did you purchase? Did you use a choke at both ends of the cable - or at just one end? If so, which end - or does it matter?
- EMI supression filter on power input to VFD: What filter did you purchase?

Thanks
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  #30  
Old Fri 25 June 2010, 06:30
MattyZee
Just call me: Matt
 
Adelaide
Australia
Quote:
- Dual ended shielding: Assume this is a typical shielded wire with the shield tied to ground at both the VFD and the Spindle. What size wire (guage) are you using? 3 conductor or 4?
Yes, thats what i've done and works great for me. I use a 4 core, 1.5mm2 but only use 3 cores for the spindle. I leave the 4th core unused.

Quote:
- Common mode choke: What choke did you purchase? Did you use a choke at both ends of the cable - or at just one end? If so, which end - or does it matter?
I put mine on the VFD end, thats where the noise is generated. I wouldn't put it at the other end, but one at both ends should be fine but doubt it has much improvement. I bought the largest toroidal ferrite i could find. The more turns you can wind on it the better. The higher the inductance the better too.

Quote:
- EMI supression filter on power input to VFD: What filter did you purchase?
I bought this one from Jaycar Electronics (an Australia company). Any EMI filter that is rated for at least 10A(240VAC) preferably 15A should be fine.
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