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  #1  
Old Sun 23 August 2009, 08:16
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Taller support bases for the V-Rollers?

Copied from another thread:

. . . . . . I might have a problem with the way my router bracket is mounted to the Z Slide. I have attached a diagram. Because I am using preground rails, I could not attach the router bracket directly to the Z Slide. I had to allow for the rails and the screws that hold the rails to the Z Slide. I used most likely to long of spacers or set offs - they were .43" wide X .75" long. I think they might be flexing or had the potential for flexing.


I decided that I wanted the eleminate the set offs completely and add the Quick Release Plate. I picked up a piece of .5" aluminum and created a plate 3.25" x 4.5", the same size as the Router Bracket Plate. I then milled the back side of the plate so that it would fit between the rails and allow for the screws. I have not added register pins because the fit is so thight.

Though I have no experience using a Bridgeport milling machine, I am very pleased with how the plate turned out and how tight it fits.

Spider and V Wheels

Some builders are reversing the eccentric bushings to set the V Wheels off of the Spider instead of using a Bearing Support Base in Drawing M120220T. I used a bushing that was 5/8" Wide x 1/2" Length. This gave me about .30" space between the back of the Z Slide Tube and the Spider. Not much space but it was enough not to cause a problem. Additional info: I am using a 3/16" bolt to hold the V Wheels.

When I added the Quick Release Plate, I created another problem. I need more space between the Z Slide Tube and the Spider to allow for the nut and washer that attaches to the 3/8" bolt that is used to secure the QR Plate. I got the additional space by adding a 1/4" X 1" X 1" piece of aluminum between the bushing and the Spider.

I don't know why I have not presented this problem before this but it is never to late.

I have the piece put together but I have not tightened the V Wheels and checked for squareness and tried cutting any thing yet.

I am looking for a reality check.

Gerald, Do I need to create a 20mm Bearing Support Base and replace my bushing and 1/4" aluminum piece? Would that be better than what I have created?


DXF 2000 file with I think the right measurements.


Pictures for viewing. Sorry that the Bridgeport is sideways. Fixed



I hope this makes sense to others besides just me!

I also created another problem for my self. With the changes to the position of the router, I have to redo my dust collection foot. Which is fine if my cut problem goes away.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old Sun 23 August 2009, 09:52
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Nils, I would make taller, steel support bases and weld them to the spider as per this post. Then use your smart milling machine to get them all to the same height, instead of filing as shown in that post.
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  #3  
Old Sun 23 August 2009, 10:36
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Gerald,

Thanks for moving the post.

I would like to understand a little more. By welding them, I am eleminating the opportunity for movement?

I have access to a lathe at the same place. I will try making a support base using both the Bridgeport and the lathe.

I had seen the post you mentioned before. Thanks
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  #4  
Old Sun 23 August 2009, 10:51
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The face of the spider, against which the support base rests, needs to be flat enough to carry the support base up to its full diameter. If the spider face is curved (convex), there is the potential for the support base and the v-roller rocking on that face. Welding would eliminate that. (We have poor control of the flatness of the spider face after the bending process).
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  #5  
Old Sun 23 August 2009, 11:39
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Gerald,

That helps me understand why the welding. I am going to give a try making the support base out of 20mm material.

Even if you weld the supports on, don't you have to file them because you can't get the spider level on the milling machine?
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  #6  
Old Sun 23 August 2009, 11:49
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Find a way to clamp the spider to the milling machine bed and then take a light cut over the support bases.
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  #7  
Old Sun 23 August 2009, 12:06
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Ok, I will give that a try.
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  #8  
Old Fri 28 August 2009, 12:03
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Today I finished milling my new bushing using the Bridgeport and metal lathe.

For a guy with no experience doing this kind of work, I am pleased with the results.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0376.jpg (173.2 KB, 763 views)
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  #9  
Old Fri 28 August 2009, 13:08
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Nice picture. Why is there a step in them?
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  #10  
Old Fri 28 August 2009, 13:18
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Maybe easier than the chamfer to do?
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  #11  
Old Fri 28 August 2009, 13:46
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The reason for the chamfer is to stop the seal from rubbing on the base. The Superior Bearing seal is slightly recessed, so that doesn't need the chamfer. But our BWC wheels on our earlier Shopbot had seals that stood proud.
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  #12  
Old Fri 28 August 2009, 15:31
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Gerald,

Yes, they are stepped because I thought they needed to be. Heath is correct. I could not reproduce the chamfer so I stepped them.

It would have been easier to not step them. It was an interesting process but not needed. It will be easier to cut to length and drill the hole. It will take me a day now that I know what I am doing.

After looking at the new bushing a little closer, I think I can cut the stepper part off and still be long enough. It appears I made them too long. These things work them selves out.

Thanks Gerald.

Last edited by sailfl; Fri 28 August 2009 at 15:53..
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  #13  
Old Fri 28 August 2009, 16:27
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Nils,
Nice to see the great work. See - you are a machinist!
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  #14  
Old Fri 28 August 2009, 19:00
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Gerald,

The stepper has been removed. Did that tonight.

Sean,

Thanks for the compliment. It helps to have the right equipment even if it is old. The new vise Sean R. picked up sure help.
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  #15  
Old Mon 31 August 2009, 15:03
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Gerald,

Today I finished assembling the Spider / Z Slide / Quick Release Plate and the new bushing. I had to modify the Router Bracket because with the bracket being closer to the Z Slide the corners of the bracket hit the heads of the bolts holding the V Wheels.

I also had to move my Z proximity switch to extended it.

I ran the test Diamond cut that I had made before. I first cut was with .25" bit at 70 IPM cutting solid surface material. The cut was very smooth with very minor roughness. I cut agin at 100 IPM and then I tried 300 IPM. The 300 IPM had less roughness than what I had with my previous setup cutting at 70 IPM.

I am using the same Spider and I do not plan on welding the new bushing to the spider.

I am very pleased with the cutting results.

I also had to modify the dust collection foot.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.
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  #16  
Old Mon 31 August 2009, 21:47
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Glad to hear that you have a big improvement. Do you perhaps have photos of what your bases looked liked before?
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  #17  
Old Tue 01 September 2009, 04:37
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Gerald,

I do not have a picture of the old Spider - Bushing - V Wheel - Z Slide configuration but I can put some thing together that will show what it looked liked using parts that I have.

I have a picture of the Z Side - Spacers - Router Bracket attached.

I will take pictures of the new configuration for both.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0299.jpg (167.1 KB, 671 views)
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  #18  
Old Tue 01 September 2009, 09:16
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
This is what the new Quick Release Plate and Router Bracket without the spacers.

The old Bushing using Sean's old spider.

The new Bushing that exist on my machine.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0389.jpg (171.3 KB, 658 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0377.jpg (168.1 KB, 654 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0387.jpg (166.8 KB, 649 views)

Last edited by sailfl; Tue 01 September 2009 at 09:19..
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  #19  
Old Tue 01 September 2009, 10:24
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Thanks for the pics. Yeah, your old bushings were rather under-sized, plus their chamfers, making them carry on a small area only. I can see now why they were "wobbling" against the spider plate.
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  #20  
Old Tue 01 September 2009, 11:17
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailfl View Post
Because I am using preground rails, I could not attach the router bracket directly to the Z Slide. I had to allow for the rails and the screws that hold the rails to the Z Slide. I used most likely to long of spacers or set offs - they were .43" wide X .75" long. I think they might be flexing or had the potential for flexing.

I decided that I wanted the eleminate the set offs completely and add the Quick Release Plate.
Nils,
I thought your initial thoughts were that the router bracket spacers were the problem, not the wheel bearing spacers. I thought the wheel bearing spacers were changed just to allow you to go to the regular quick change plate.? Just wondering if it was two problems all along? Sorry, maybe I am off track here.
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  #21  
Old Tue 01 September 2009, 12:01
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Heath,

I did think that the spacers associated with the router bracket were a problem. I also wanted to add a QR Plate. After making the QRP, I discovered that I need to push the Z Slide further away from the Spider to make room for the nut that secures the QRP.

From the Rough Cut on Diagonal under troubleshooting, I decided that I need to add better - wider bushing between my spider and V Wheels.

I now believe that my poor cutting was the results of too small bushing between the spider and V Wheels and the length of the stand offs that I used between the Z Slide and my Router Bracket. There was another problem with the stand offs. They were very close together and that also provided more give.

I am pleased with the final cutting. Though it is recommended, I don't think I am going to weld the bushing to the spider.

Hope that helps you understand.
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  #22  
Old Tue 01 September 2009, 13:04
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Nils,
Sounds like you got it all under control now. Do you have any after pics of the cut quality to see the improvement?
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