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  #1  
Old Wed 08 November 2006, 21:32
fabrica
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Routers - Porter Cable, Bosch, Makita, Milwaukee, Etc - and mounting them

Rather than Going in for a spindle with VFD drive I have decided to purchase a Porter Cable Router to save costs. Can somebody advice me on whcih model to buy. It should be a good heavy duty model. Our Voltage in this country is 220V and 50 Hz.
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  #2  
Old Thu 09 November 2006, 17:43
David Rosenbleeth
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Fabrica: Although in the US (where I am) the routers come 110V and therefore I can't speak for international availability, I can tell you that many router users have determined lately that the Milwaukee router (3HP) is quieter, smoother, has less runout, and generally superior to the PC 3HP that was the previous top choice.
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  #3  
Old Thu 09 November 2006, 20:09
fabrica
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I presume that Milwaukee are 110 V. In our country we operate on 220 Volts. Does anybody know weather they offer the 220 V version of the same model.
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  #4  
Old Thu 09 November 2006, 22:35
Robert Cheal
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Fabrica,

I started with the Porter Cable and ran it for about 4 years, changed out the brushes & bearings during the last year it still works fine but it is now in a router table. I switched over to the Milwaukee 5625-29 early this year and I like it very much and it is quiet compared to the PC.

Robert
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  #5  
Old Fri 10 November 2006, 00:47
ralph hampton
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I run a 110v router on a cheap(ukp45) building site 240>110 transformer without problems. Not sure how it affects the speed though, but it's only a little.

r
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  #6  
Old Fri 24 November 2006, 21:10
fabrica
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Now that I have decided to go in for a Makita Router initially what type of cutting toools, collets would be required by me to handle the jobs I have in mind of doing (sign making, Kitchen cabinets plastic cutting etc).

Could some guy supply me with a basic list of tools required. It is easier and cheaper for me to get down everything from U.S.A in one go.
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  #7  
Old Sat 25 November 2006, 07:00
Bob Cole
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Fabrica:
Just wondering why you are choosing Makita?
After the earlier discussion on this forum about the Milwaukee router

I have been looking in that direction. what does Makita, or any other router have to offer that might make it superior to the Milwaukee? After considering the torque, speed, and ease of bit changes, I would think noise output would be a key consideration. Just my 2 worth.
Bob C.
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  #8  
Old Sat 25 November 2006, 09:17
fabrica
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It is due to the Voltage issue. We in this country run on 220 Volts 50 Hz. Milwaukee does not have 220 V versions to my knowledge. If possible could you please double check for me. I would love to own a Milwaukee.
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  #9  
Old Sat 25 November 2006, 10:10
Gerald_D
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Fabrica, in choosing a router, be sure you can get spare parts in your country. Bearings are normally easy to find, but the carbon brushes can be a problem. Buy the router from the guy down the road that is going to give you 12 months warranty.

Our power tool supplier here in Cape Town insists on opening the package on the counter in front of you, checking the contents and then engraving their invoice number onto the tool. And there is great personal service after that. Way better than online/overseas purchase.
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  #10  
Old Sat 25 November 2006, 13:30
Bob Cole
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Fabrica;
I know very little about electricity, but in the USA we split the legs of our 220V and run one leg with a ground to get 110V. could you do the same where you live and there by put a 110-120V router {the Milwaukee 5625-29} to use?

BTW: for any of you using 120V I found a site where I can pick up a factory reconditioned 5625-20 for under $240.00 delivered to my door. Includes a full 5 year factory warranty}. If you are interested let me know.

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  #11  
Old Mon 27 November 2006, 00:34
Alan Conolly
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Bob:
From what I can tell the electrical supply in USA is actualy 2 phase (2 lives plus neutral plus earth) Measuring across the two lives will give you 220v and across any one live and neutral will give you 110v. In Europe (and most of the rest of the civilised world) the electrical suply is based on 3phase 380v, plus neutral plus earth (from the utility co) If you measure across any two lives you will get 380v and between any live and neutral you will get 220v. It is therefore not possible to achive 110v without using a transformer with sufficient current capacity for the tool being operated.

Alan
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  #12  
Old Mon 27 November 2006, 00:58
Gerald_D
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Alan, you see it the same way as me, but the snag is that the guys on the other side of the pond use a completely different terminology.... Our "live" is their "hot", our "phases" are their "legs", our "earth" is their "ground", and I think our "neutral" is their "return"?? So I shy away from discussions like this because someone may want to blame me for ending up as toast - you must have heard stories about their lawyers as well?

Bob says "we split the legs of our 220V and run one leg with a ground to get 110V". That won't work here because ground/earth is separate from neutral after our "earth leakage"(ground fault?) system. But I do remember how my grandfather used to to treat earth and neutral as the same thing.
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  #13  
Old Thu 07 December 2006, 11:18
Kim Mortensen
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Just for a Note. Bosch has launched a version of their American Router 1617, like the Porter Cable versions on the European market.
This model is called GMF 1400CE. This one will be the version I'm going to install into my table...
Here's the link

link

Another link
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  #14  
Old Thu 07 December 2006, 11:34
Gerald_D
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Kim, just for comparison to the Porter Cable power ratings in the USA, that 1400W would be seen as about 2.65 HP over there.

1400 ÷ 746 X 1.414 = 2.65

where:
746 Watts = 1 HP (shaft power)
1.414 = square root of 2 (used for RMS versus Peak calcs)
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  #15  
Old Thu 07 December 2006, 12:59
Kim Mortensen
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I know the European version is a little under 2HP but still it's a very nice machine, and the first of it's kind in Europe. It's the closest I'll get to a real Spindle in the near future. I have found that a spindle cost's anywhere from $2000-4000. And that's a little steep for my wallet... I'll just run the table at lower speeds until I can afford a 5HP Spindle in stead. But for now I have to build the machine first, have just lasercut most of the lasercut parts the other day. needing only to cut 2mm and 6mm elements.
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  #16  
Old Thu 07 December 2006, 13:24
Gerald_D
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Kim, the big 3.25 HP Porter Cable is only 1800 Watt, your 1400 Watt is not far behind that. The USA power figures are Peak while the Europe figures are RMS. As I showed you, you have 2.65 HP peak.

Italy is the home of most spindle producers - good prices can be obtained there if you skip all the middlemen.

Plunge routers can also fit in the MechMate. We use Makita 3612C with the handles removed . . . . .





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  #17  
Old Thu 07 December 2006, 13:54
Kim Mortensen
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Ok... So the Bosch should be efficiant enough. Nice then.
Do you have a good supplier of the Steppers needed for the MechMate, Cause I can't find some in Europe that operates with rather good prices. Not in the Size that this table is made for. I'm going to run without gearbox, in the hope that i Will be able to have as little backlash as possible.
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  #18  
Old Thu 07 December 2006, 14:41
ralph hampton
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Kim,
I have the USA version of the Bosch running on a 110v building site transformer here in the UK, and am very pleased with it. It is an excellent little thing, and pretty quiet too. It is also dead easy to change bearings and brushes (I have just found out).
The only downside is that it only comes with 1/2" and 1/4" colletts and everything else must be sleeved, but I hav'nt had any problems with that.

r.
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  #19  
Old Fri 08 December 2006, 00:22
fabrica
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Gerald, I am about to place order for a Makita 3612C Router. The local price quoted is US $ 290 with warranty.

It comes with only a 1/2" collete. For other sizes of bits how do you manage. I assume that you too are using this model. Makita does not seem to be manufacturing any other collet sizes. I read somewhere in a thread a guy saying that the ideal thing is to avoild using adapters and to use collets of different sizes to match the bits that you use.

What is your advice on this issue?
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  #20  
Old Fri 08 December 2006, 01:04
Gerald_D
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Makita supply 1/2" and 1/4" collets with the router as standard over here. We bought some metric collets together with a metric collet nut from the Makita agent and I think that was 6,8 and 12mm. I know for sure my son uses an adapter for 10mm cutters only. That "adaptor" is simply a piece of precision hydraulic pipe (12x1mm) with some saw-cuts in it. Remember that Makita is originally Japanese and metric - the threads and bearing are all metric.
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  #21  
Old Sat 09 December 2006, 05:52
fabrica
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Gerald, I inquired from the Local agent of Browns. They say that They only supply the 1/2" collet and they do not keep in stock the original (Genuine) 1/4" collete and neither do they have the other sizes. I will have to buy these from other 3rd party vendors who sell Indian & Chinese colletes.

I have the option of going in for a Dewalt Router. Do you or anybody else have any experince with these routers.
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  #22  
Old Sat 09 December 2006, 13:37
Gerald_D
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Fabrica, I gave you wrong information on the Makita collets. The following is the true situation:

The inch-sized Makita is supplied with one collet 1/2" and a collet sleeve adapter to reduce the 1/2" to 1/4"

The metric-sized Makita is supplied with one collet 12mm and two collet sleeve adapters to reduce the 12mm to 8mm and 6mm

The nuts are probably identical, but we havn't had a reason to try and swop nuts.

Most of the time we use 8mm and 10mm cutters. The workshop guys fit and change the cutters and I had forgotten the situation with the sleeves already. Sorry for the wrong information initially.
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  #23  
Old Wed 03 January 2007, 00:02
Arthur Ransom
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Rockler has a quick change collet for Porter Cable routers that uses a T handle wrench. Love mine, makes tool change a breeze.
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  #24  
Old Thu 04 January 2007, 05:03
fabrica
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Gerald, Monuting the Makita onto the Slide plate is not all that simple isn't it. Do you think that those foor small screws underneath the router would provide it solid mount.
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  #25  
Old Thu 04 January 2007, 08:07
Gerald_D
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Not simple, and not difficult - you can learn from my mistakes...

Those 4 screws hold the router together in normal use and we havn't had any problems in this area, except that we stripped the threads in the plastic because our first screws were too short.

(To get the router perfectly square to the table, you put washers on top of the four round pedestals. Or grind one or two slightly shorter.)

This was the very first version. 10 small holes for height adjustment. 2 little plates out the back for hooking on the balance springs. Main plate is 8mm thick, about 90mm (?) wide...



Then, quite a few things changed:
a. The spring plates bumped into clamps, so they were cut away.
b. The 10 hole system was dumped in favour of a single center bolt and 2 locating dowels
c. 4 Screws were lengthened and changed to countersink heads because they also hit clamps.
d. An air deflector plate was added between the router and the bracket so that all the dust is not blown up into the air. (Makes a huge difference)


You need to remove the router handles. One handle contains the switch and some wiring must be bypassed. After the wiring change, the braking of the router doesn't work anymore - it stops slowly, not suddenly.

Then also there was a collision with the tip of part 1020454B at Y=max travel. A small part of that part had to be cut away.
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  #26  
Old Thu 04 January 2007, 20:50
fabrica
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Thanks Gerald, I will try to follow your instructions today and see what I could come up with.
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  #27  
Old Fri 09 February 2007, 22:13
reza forushani
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Which router is the easiest to install in the Mechmate?
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  #28  
Old Mon 12 February 2007, 11:34
Gerald_D
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Apparently, the easiest mounting routers are the Milwaukee 5625-29 and the Porter Cable 75182 (that is the 7518 without the base and handles)

But, they are only available in 110V countries.

Having never seen one in real life, I can't help with a bracket design unless someone does some measurements for me. The Milwaukee is slightly smaller than the PC - it needs a sleeve/shim/spacer when going into a bracket designed for a PC.
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  #29  
Old Mon 12 February 2007, 19:49
reza forushani
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Thanks gerald. On the Milwaukee do I need to buy the base as well or not. On the PC do the handles come off?
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  #30  
Old Mon 12 February 2007, 21:22
Gerald_D
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You don't need the base of the Milwaukee. The handles/base of the PC does come off.

Apparently there isn't much of a price reduction for buying these routers without their handles/bases.
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