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  #1  
Old Fri 13 October 2006, 10:54
Evan Curtis
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Cable chain - E-Chain sizes & sources

Gerald,
Where did you get your E-chain and which brand and model #? I'm thinking it's time to straighten out that rat's nest of wires hanging off the X-gantry.
  #2  
Old Fri 13 October 2006, 11:14
Gerald_D
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Main chain, Igus 250.09.100.0, $60/meter
Mounting Brackets, Igus 2090.12PZB, $12/pair

The .09. denotes internal width of 90 (89) mm. 07 denoting 75mm is also available

The .100. denotes bend radius. 075 denoting 75mm is also available, and also 050 denoting 50mm.
  #3  
Old Fri 15 December 2006, 14:13
vadeem
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What size E chain is required for the MechMate?

I see in the catalog they have sizes 3/4" to 5" wide.

Thanks
  #4  
Old Fri 15 December 2006, 15:42
Gerald_D
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Below is a reference to the one I used. I think it is 100mm wide by 36mm high.

But I believe that IGUS is over-rated and over-priced. There must be cheaper versions out there. Google "cable chain" or "drag chain" or "cable drag chain".
  #5  
Old Sat 10 February 2007, 15:19
David Rosenbleeth
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I recently got more than enough for my Y straight from Igus for $65.00. For around $180. I could have gotten enough for both x and y. Their rep was very helpful. I think it was the 1 3/4" x 1" (internal space) chain with the flip open tops so I didn't have to rerun hardly any cables.
  #6  
Old Sun 11 February 2007, 09:41
Gerald_D
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David, that is affordable. The Igus office here doesn't have a wide selection, and I think you will agree that $20 per foot is too much. Have you perhaps got part numbers? or a number molded into the links?
  #7  
Old Sun 11 February 2007, 18:37
DocTanner
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Reza,
This is more than enough Cable carrier to do a 4X8 Mechmate. You will have to fabricate your own support brackets and attachments.

From www.mcmaster.com
2 sets - 4516T283 (Same as 4516T28)
Open Feed-Through Style Cable & Hose Carrier 1.38" H X 3.66" W Overall Sz, 3.94" Bend Radius, 6'L
In stock at $92.16 Each
2 sets 4556T582 (Same as 4556T58)
Mounting Bracket for Cable and Hose Carrier Open Style, 1.38" H X 3.66" W Overall
In stock at $9.68 per Set

While you are ordering you might want to get these:
1 package 9654K324
Steel Extension Spring 4-1/8" Length, 9/16" OD, .08" Wire
In stock at $12.14 per Pack
This product is sold in Packs of 6
In stock at $12.14 per Pack
9416K181 (Same as 9416K18)
1 each - Gas Spring with Threaded Ends 20 Force, 18.22" Extended Length, 7.87" Stroke
In stock at $12.46 Each <--- I'm using 3 1/2hp Milwaukee Router


DocTanner
  #8  
Old Sun 11 February 2007, 19:56
reza forushani
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Thanks Doc
Let me understand. Do I not need two chains for the -axis, one for each side, and then one for the gantry(y-axis). So, I need 3. Right?
  #9  
Old Sun 11 February 2007, 23:01
Gerald_D
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Reza, because e-chain is so expensive here, we only have one chain on the gantry. Under the x-axis we have a hanging loop.

But, if you can afford e-chain for the x-axis, you only need one. The wires to the other x-motor go through the gantry - through the big holes in parts 10-20-456.

Total number of e-chains = 2 (max)
  #10  
Old Sun 11 February 2007, 23:49
Gerald_D
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I think the Igus part no., of the chain that Doc got from McMaster, is 200-07-100-0, but you need to specify the length if buying from Igus. Length is half Y plus 400mm [16"] for the curve and over-travel. (Check carefully - this stuff is expensive!)



And you definitely need those end mounting brackets - one set per chain. Igus number: 2070-12 (we discarded the "tie-wraps" (ZB part?))
  #11  
Old Mon 12 February 2007, 01:25
Gerald_D
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Thanks for the kind offer Reza - sometime we may take you up on it. (PS. I am supposed to be in Atlanta for the WasteExpo in May)

If I were buying from Kabelschlepp (the original cable chain inventors), I would probably select: Plastitrak 450.60 KR3.70 with a set of simple end brackets. Recommended sizing changed Nov. '07

I have clip-open links, but we are not packing tightly into the chain and it turned out that we fed the cables through without opening the links. Realise that the diagrams show top opening links, but in reality half the chain is upside down (on a tray/support) making the opening impractical. Thus, opening links are a luxury that can be dispensed for better price, if applicable.
  #12  
Old Mon 12 February 2007, 01:58
Gerald_D
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Recommended sizing changed Nov. '07

An option from Italy, www.brevettistendalto.it, represented worldwide. There I might go for SR325060100.....

Another German option, www.murrplastik.com represented worldwide, maybe the MP26 0260 062 095 0000

In India, Kumbhojkar? Plastic Moulders model DC-4
  #13  
Old Mon 12 February 2007, 07:06
Gerald_D
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Large parts of the cable runs do not need to flex in a cable chain. See section A-B below:



It is not necessary to purchase expensive cable chain for these sections. Typically, folk use bent up channels from sheetmetal, but these are big dust collectors. Perforated cable tray, or cable ladder are just just the trick for this application. The "holier", the better - dust must fall through. A modified plant trellis from Walmart may even work!

The beauty of a tray or ladder is the ability to neatly separate the high-power (motors/router/spindle) cables from each other and from the signal cables. With all-shielded cables, the separation is not that necessary, but we will rather be safe.

Once I have a better idea which chains and perforated trays are available to all of you, I will do some drawings on the bracketry for hanging this all off the one side of the gantry. Our brackets are attached to the gantry tubes with self-tapping screws. (No welding or paint damage required) Pictures
  #14  
Old Mon 12 February 2007, 11:28
David Rosenbleeth
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Gerald:
The part number is 240-05-075 for the chain and 2050-34PZB for the brackets.
This is their E-2 chain.
  #15  
Old Sun 18 February 2007, 18:32
Pascal Riendeau
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Hi all! Hey Gerald!

I've just registered (after months of spying on you all! Hi, hi!) and just want to say hello first... OK, now that it's done lets move on.

Here's what I've done on my tool. It's rather simple yet very efficient. I'm very happy with it and way proud to finally post about it after several requests for details and pictures.



Let me know what you think!
  #16  
Old Sun 18 February 2007, 22:51
Gerald_D
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Welcome Pascal!

Our friend here has a low ceiling above his ShopBot, so he had to find a flat route for his dust hose as well. Click on his link to see a lot more.
  #17  
Old Tue 01 May 2007, 11:43
J.R. Hatcher
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does anyone know what the radius of the e-chain needs to be. it is important so it will lay flat. i am making some and will share with everyone if it works. thanks
  #18  
Old Tue 01 May 2007, 13:14
Gerald_D
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Not sure I understand your question....

The cable chain must:
- prevent the cables from bending tighter than about 75-100mm [3-4"] radius
- not stretch/shorten the cable as it works (the cable passes through the center of the hinges - Pascal's system stretches the cable as it straightens out)
  #19  
Old Sat 26 May 2007, 17:06
grandpi
Just call me: Pierre
 
Caussens
France
Cable chain length ??

Gérald, Paco,

Readind your topic about cable chain on the old forum, i 'm going to order at Igus shop the cable chain (250.09.100.0) but concerning the length, i'm a bit lost :
My Y is 2070mm so if i consider your suggestion the length choice is (2070/2)+406,4mm = 1441,4 mm. Automatically, on the Igus french site , after typing the 1441,4mm, i have the result of 1150 mm for the chain length ?? It seems to be too short for me ??

Paco : What is , please, the translation of the word "la course du porte cable" of the french igus cable chain web site ?? Is it different from the chain length??

Thank you.

Pierre.
  #20  
Old Sat 26 May 2007, 17:09
grandpi
Just call me: Pierre
 
Caussens
France
Igus french web site adress

Gerald,

If you could have a look at the french web site cable chain choice page to answer me : http://www.igus.fr/iPro/iPro_01_0004...tNr=&C=FR&L=fr

Thanks.

Pierre.
  #21  
Old Sat 26 May 2007, 17:33
grandpi
Just call me: Pierre
 
Caussens
France
Maybe the cable chain solution ?

Gerald,

I directly introduce on the Igus web site page the 2070mm and finally i have a cable chain length of 1472mm : not too much different from your calculation way (1441,4mm). Is it correct ???

Thanks.

Pierre.
  #22  
Old Sun 27 May 2007, 09:23
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
That chain has a pitch of 46mm between links. 5 or 6 links make the full 180 degree bend - let us use 6 links as the worst possibility. Therefore, 276mm of the chain is used by the bend. Your Y is 2070, therefore the MechMate will allow the y-car to move a total of 2170mm. Divide 2170 by 2 = 1085mm. Add 276mm = 1361. Divide by 46mm = 29.5 links. Therefore the minimum links are 30 and the minimum length is 30 x 46 = 1380mm

The formula of Igus is designed to sell chain - their result is a bit more than what is really required. They add 2 more links. (Their CAD drawing shows only 6 links in the curve, that is also what we see in real life)

  #23  
Old Sun 27 May 2007, 12:48
grandpi
Just call me: Pierre
 
Caussens
France
Chain length calculation

Thanks Gerald.
  #24  
Old Tue 24 July 2007, 10:33
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
Gerald this was my original plan, to run EMT conduit from the X track around the corner to the Y track. These compression connectors make it very stout. I kept the conduit to the right side of the X bracket so I could drill a hole on the left to accommodate the wires for the X motors. I'm thinking about running the 120 AC line for the router with the dust collector pipe (completely away from all other wires) or just tie wrap it to the outside of the conduit. All suggestions are welcome. thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MVC-030S.JPG (38.3 KB, 268 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-031S.JPG (36.5 KB, 269 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-032S.JPG (36.7 KB, 266 views)
  #25  
Old Tue 24 July 2007, 10:53
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Remember that the conduit must take 5 cables (z-motor, y-motor, E-stop, pushbuttons, ground) - 6 cables if the router/spindle is included - 7 cables if the spindle has a fan and thermistor.
  #26  
Old Tue 24 July 2007, 15:38
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
Now to finish what I was trying to say in post 64. I kept the conduit to the right on the X bracket so I could put another one to the left when Gerald realized the one was not going to accommodate all the wires needed. I never thought I would need that many wires. Thanks for catching that Gerald.

Thank you Hugo for the encouraging words.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MVC-033S.JPG (37.1 KB, 264 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-034S.JPG (37.5 KB, 264 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-035S.JPG (36.8 KB, 264 views)
  #27  
Old Tue 31 July 2007, 09:46
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Hello "super" J.R My back hurts just thinking you move that by your self.
¿Can you tell me where you buy your cable tracks and specifications of the track?
Thanks
  #28  
Old Tue 31 July 2007, 14:52
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
Hugo go to http://www.msnusers.com/ncmechmate/d...nw?fc_a=0&fc_p= there you will see a link to a spreadsheet, the info about the cable chain is in it, lines 13, 14, 16, 17. thanks J.R. ps when I double click the spreadsheet link it opens up.
  #29  
Old Wed 19 September 2007, 19:03
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Hello Gerald.
Here are some post of the progress. Hope to have the machine moving on Saturday. I have a new problem. I got 100 foot of cable for the motors and if I want to put the control box out side the machine like the original desing, with space to move arround, the cables are not long enough, so I am building the control box in a side of the table . I will post some pictures tomorrow.
Regards.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Imagen 075.jpg (70.9 KB, 265 views)
File Type: jpg Imagen 078.jpg (84.8 KB, 268 views)
File Type: jpg Imagen 093.jpg (71.7 KB, 265 views)
File Type: jpg Imagen 094.jpg (71.4 KB, 265 views)
  #30  
Old Wed 19 September 2007, 22:09
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Hi Hugo

Some good ideas there!

Your plastic cable chains are a bit "unusual":

- They bend to a smaller diameter than the what I have seen before. Who is the supplier and part number?

- You run the cable chains in the opposite direction to what is on the drawing. Have you considered where is the "front" of your machine, and have you got the cable chains at the back? Or do you want to show the chains in the front?
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