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  #151  
Old Fri 14 February 2014, 18:21
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Error in Drawing 10-40-330 and 10-40-360

While reviewing my CAD models for the z-axis I spotted an error in the drawing. It is mentioned in some other threads, but I am going to mention it here as well to warn others.

There is an inconsistency in the hole spacing in drawing 10-40-330(slide plate) and 10-40-360(slide tube). It seems to just affect the english measurements.

The spacing in -330 goes as
1.2 1.1 1.2
but in -360 the spacing goes as
1.2,1.2,1.1

The metric spacings seem to be okay. So I suspect it is some kind of rounding problem in the CAD software used to create the drawings.

This problem is mentioned in some other threads, but I am mentioning here as well to maximize the chances that someone else sees this. If someone were just going on the drawings and not CAD'ing ahead of time, this would be easy to miss and be a real bummer after drilling holes in that really expensive piece of gauge stock.

This really should be fixed in the drawings. My piece of gauge stock cost me $86. I would have been really sad if I had not see this problem when I did.
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  #152  
Old Sat 15 February 2014, 00:40
isladelobos
Just call me: Ros
 
Canary Islands
Spain
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I see the same problem, but it is only in the numbers.
My measuremens between center holes is ok in both drawings.

I remember i have sent to the laser cut company the drawings without the countersunk and measurement marks, no problems at all.
But the best way sending this to the laser company is enlarge the plate 100mm (3.9" aprox to your thinks) in both sides for a good carril milling and next cut to the exact measure.

Last edited by isladelobos; Sat 15 February 2014 at 00:52..
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  #153  
Old Sat 15 February 2014, 17:44
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Starting on Z-axis

On Friday I beveled the edges of the gauge plate. No real surprises there. I took the suggestion mentioned in another build thread of using a workmate workbench to clamp the gauge plate while grinding. That worked very nicely and the operation was uneventful. It took about an hour to complete. The rest of Friday was spent fine tuning my CAD model of the Z-axis to make sure of all the dimensions.

I started cutting metal today. Overall it went pretty well, but I did manage to inadvertently countersink what was supposed to be the dowel pin hole. I really wish I would quit doing stupid stuff like that. I was not planning to use the dowel pin for mounting the spindle, but I wanted it available for future use.

After much thought, I am going to split the big aluminum spindle mount in half. Each half going to roughly each end of the spindle. I think that will provide better support than just using it in one big piece. The CAD model was adjusted for this option. Also that mounting block is too wide. It will hit the bearings. I will cut the mounting ears off and also cut a small lip along the side the clear the bearings.

The plan for tomorrow is to look at getting the bearings and mounts fitted to the spider. Got several items I have been wanting to paint, but it is a little hard to do the with the "winds sweeping down the plain".
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  #154  
Old Sat 15 February 2014, 17:53
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
The mount I used was 1" aluminum and was a 5 piece assembly with location dowels. Two dowels on the slide for the mount back and the rest was bolt together. So the mount can be made however you wish as long as it does the job in the end.
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  #155  
Old Sun 16 February 2014, 12:51
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Spider bearings mounted.

The bearings are mounted to the spider and the z-slide moves very nicely.
Still a bit more work to do before I mount it to the y-car.

It took me a little bit to try to figure out how to securely mount the spider for drilling. So a pic of setup I used is included. Two step block extensions clamp the center of the spider and are in turn gripped by the vice. An extra block was inserted into the vice to offset the spider so all four feet rested over the top of the vice.

The plans specify welding the bearing supports, but I wonder if that is necessary. Everything seems to be pretty solid. I hate to warp it with welding.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg spider_drill.jpg (96.1 KB, 551 views)
File Type: jpg spider_slide.jpg (102.7 KB, 550 views)
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  #156  
Old Sun 16 February 2014, 12:58
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
I think if you weld the bearing supports, you can then "fine tune" the flatness ...but milling, sanding (whatever) the supports to get it totally flat.
Mark
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  #157  
Old Sun 16 February 2014, 15:34
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
If the spider frame itself is warped, milling the tops of spacers is not really fixing the problem. If the frame is straight and the supports were turned properly, little to no evening of the tops should be required.
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  #158  
Old Sun 16 February 2014, 15:57
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
I got the spider frame as level as possible, then put the whole thing on the milling machine to take the last few thousands off the bearing supports. My machine is not finished yet, so I will leave this to the experts...I just followed the suggestions in the Z plate section.
Mark
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  #159  
Old Mon 17 February 2014, 15:24
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
VHB Tape for Z-Slide rack?

Do we use VHB tape for mounting the z-slide rack or does that need to be screwed down?

More work on the z-slide today. Got the gas spring attached and the stop set for all the way up. I set the bracket for the top of the spring so that it was compressed by about half an inch.

I am taking a closer look at the stepper motor attachment. I can't get out of welding on the spider after all. The big thing to figure out is how to ensure alignment of the attachment bracket so that the stepper is not skewed with respect to the slide motion. I am also going to have to grind a bevel so that it can rest evenly on the spider..
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  #160  
Old Mon 17 February 2014, 16:18
Tom Ayres
Just call me: Tom #117
 
Bassett (VA)
United States of America
VHB tape is used, just fasten at the ends as per plans. I'm not understanding the spider issue...
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  #161  
Old Mon 17 February 2014, 16:44
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Tom,
I am confused. You say "VHB tape is used, just fasten at the ends as per plans.". Is that VHB tape is just used at the ends or use screws. The plans show screws. However the plans show screws for X and Y, but according to Gerald that was just put there for those that did not want to trust the tape.

For the part you are confused about. I am referring to the welding of 10-40-434(Motor Plate Lug) to the spider. What I am concerned about is getting it in line with the slide. The stepper attaches to this plate and in turn drives the rack. If the plate is not oriented properly, then the stepper is out of line and in turn the drive gear is out of line with the rack.
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  #162  
Old Mon 17 February 2014, 17:47
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
DB,
The z is fastened by screws counter sunk in plate and tapped holes in the rack.
Alignment is critical, but the limited flex in the z-motor plate allows for some adjustment to keep it in plane.
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  #163  
Old Mon 17 February 2014, 18:14
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Thanks Sean, that is what I needed to confirm. Screws will be used for the rack on the z-axis.

How did you deal with aligning the stepper motor plate for welding?
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  #164  
Old Mon 17 February 2014, 19:08
Tom Ayres
Just call me: Tom #117
 
Bassett (VA)
United States of America
Sorry DB, I couldn't answer, I was on my way to Boy Scouts.
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  #165  
Old Thu 20 February 2014, 07:45
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Stepper motor plate rests in the little laser cut tab for positioning.
Then - I used 90 degree magnets to hold in place while I tack welded it up.
This does NOT require a bunch of weld, if you do, you risk the tab rolling over and not being in plane.
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  #166  
Old Sun 23 February 2014, 15:27
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Z-Axis mounted

Got the z-axis mounted up today. Just loosely mounted at this point.
Prepped the x-racks for welding on about 6 more inches of length.
Also drilled and tapped the pinion gears for set screws.

Also got some insulating shoulder washers on order for mounting the control panel to the frame. I want to be sure the only ground path is through the ground cable and not through the frame.

In the same picture to the right is a crane I built for moving my 12 foot long pieces of sheet metal around when I am working on the plane. You can see a video of that at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1NmzrdELsc
Attached Images
File Type: jpg z_front.jpg (94.9 KB, 477 views)

Last edited by dbinokc; Sun 23 February 2014 at 15:49..
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  #167  
Old Sun 02 March 2014, 09:31
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Yesterday, the control panel was mounted to the end of the machine. Also worked on mounting the cable chains.

We had another big blast of cold from the north today. I do not think the little heater in my shop will make a dent in keeping the building warm enough for me. I do not expect to really make much progress today.
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  #168  
Old Sun 02 March 2014, 10:53
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Nice use of everyday available equipment in making your material handler. Please remember with any lifting equipment that it should be designed with a 7:1 safety factor. Some only use a 3:1. I used to inspect hoist and cranes and had to inspect after accidents that sometimes caused very bad things to operators and bystanders. So please make sure all your i's and t's are accounted for. Most things can be prevented but the most important things you cannot always get back.

Nice video and ingenuity and maybe spring will come soon so you can continue with your build process.
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  #169  
Old Sun 02 March 2014, 11:16
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Thanks Pete.

By my calculations, with the current counterweight, I could lift up to 500 pounds vertically before tipover. Of course the bigger moment arm is horizontal, which I estimated around 50 pounds applied at the very top could cause tipover.
At most the static loads I am dealing with are around 100 pounds vertical. The sheets are not real heavy, just really big. Dynamically, I am moving real slow anyway. My biggest concern when using the crane is not busting out one of my fluorescent lights when initially lifting sheets out.
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  #170  
Old Sun 02 March 2014, 11:45
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Nothing is worse than fluorescent lights breaking, they are a mess to clean up.
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  #171  
Old Sun 02 March 2014, 14:54
Tom Ayres
Just call me: Tom #117
 
Bassett (VA)
United States of America
Not to mention breathing the dust from them...
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  #172  
Old Sat 08 March 2014, 04:47
lonestaral
Just call me: Al #114
 
Isarn
Thailand
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Looking good.
Keep up the good work.
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  #173  
Old Sun 09 March 2014, 16:53
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
After drilling a few more holes, I finally was able to install the electronics into the control panel today. The trays for the cable chain were welded, painted and installed. I also installed some cable duct to hold cable running from the control panel to the chain and similarly for the gantry.

I also purchased a panel for holding the VFD. That was painted, but I will wait until next weekend to mount it. I am still trying to decide on how best to safety the spindle while doing drill bit changes. While the chances of the spindle starting up are small, the consequences of a spin up while changing bits is not.

While I am deciding on that issue, I am now in a position I can start pulling cable and hooking up steppers. I may not even wait until next weekend to do that. I have been waiting a while to see the beast move on its own power.
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  #174  
Old Sun 09 March 2014, 17:30
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
See this post about vfd spindle safety option
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  #175  
Old Sun 09 March 2014, 18:25
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
I am using the Huanyuag VFD. After looking through the docs, there is a way to configure some of the inputs for emergency stop and reset. I would still much prefer a mechanical break in the connector as opposed to a soft break.
What kind of button are you using for the VFD stop?
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  #176  
Old Sun 09 March 2014, 19:40
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Using a safety circuit as it is designed by the manufacturer like how the Hitachi VFD is safe. The process they even recommend is a redundant safety protocol by using a safety relay the requires the input to be reset before it will activate. No different than light curtains or light barriers used to protect people from being smashed by machines. By use of a maintained switch, you have to reset the circuit for it to activate.

First thing is you do not what to break the load lines at all unless it is set up with a MOL (motor overload) function. The bus usually required the load to be connected even if the VFD is a rest. If it has a MOL then you can break the lines and trigger it at the same time. You could also break the incoming power (not recommended by most manufacturers) but only if the vfd is not running. Just leave enough time between power up and tool changes for the VFD to come back on. Estop by killing all power even while running is considered the exception because it is the safety of the operator that is the most important, not the machine.

All this being said. Mach would really have to malfunction for it to run up in the middle of tool change. However if there is more than just you there, it is a good idea to plan on someone else hitting the start button or freak accidents like a can falling over and depressing the start button.

I am all for extra safety but I leave the choice up to you.
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  #177  
Old Sun 09 March 2014, 20:37
Tom Ayres
Just call me: Tom #117
 
Bassett (VA)
United States of America
DB so far this what I've come up with for the Huanyuag VFD, set VFD code pd046 to 13 (emergency), connect (i think) rst to whatever output on bob (I'm trying to figure out too other things at this time but I think this a starting point) Maybe this will get you thinking in that direction. As usual the chinese manuals leave a lot to be desired. Good luck
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  #178  
Old Sun 09 March 2014, 20:51
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Just checked my hard copy manual and what I have matches yours for the stop information. 13 is stop and 14 is reset. I was looking at a pdf earlier that apparently is not current.

I think this corresponds to what Pete linked to for the Hitachi in his previous post.

Last edited by dbinokc; Sun 09 March 2014 at 21:04.. Reason: Incorrect information
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  #179  
Old Mon 10 March 2014, 03:05
Tom Ayres
Just call me: Tom #117
 
Bassett (VA)
United States of America
Makes you wonder if they write the manuals off the top of their heads. Now that's got me a little bothered. Although Pete is absolutely right, good advise for sure.
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  #180  
Old Sat 15 March 2014, 18:22
dbinokc
Just call me: DB #118
 
Oklahoma
United States of America
Starting to wire things up

Got the VFD mounted today. Attached is a pic of the current state.
Still procrastinating on welding the racks and attaching them. I will probably wait until the very last on those. I will continue pulling cable, start testing steppers, hooking up proxy sensors etc.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cable_chains_mounted.JPG (238.9 KB, 268 views)
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