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  #181  
Old Sun 19 November 2017, 17:56
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Ok, I failed again.
Impatience and assumptions + MM = fail.
I'm assuming once again that these motors should tear the meat off my hand if I attempt to hold them.....
There definetly was a difference in the Kelling being 200+ oz. More powerful, but still didn't do the job.
Dampers seem fine. If I go with a heavier or lighter capability I will probably end up in same scenario but in opposite directions.
So I'm hoping gear reduction should be able to handle it.
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  #182  
Old Sun 19 November 2017, 20:20
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
So are you saying you got your motors and still have an issue?
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  #183  
Old Sun 19 November 2017, 20:22
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
also remember that 200 in-oz is 200 ounces at 1 inch at maximum torque or 12.5 lb at 1 foot.
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  #184  
Old Sun 19 November 2017, 20:29
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
I use a 880 oz-in motor for my z. I use a ball screw for mine and it is overkill but I already had it. Still even with that I have a extension spring to equalize the weight of the Z so it will not free fall. Re-familiarize yourself with the properties of a stepper motor. It sounds like it is a weight issue to me. That is why I asked if you helped assist the motor if it would rise. You are using the same computer/program/settings right?
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  #185  
Old Sun 19 November 2017, 20:30
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
If you swapped the motor to your X or B axes (assuming they are the same motors) and they move that axis fine I would lean toward a weight issue. If you can't swap it with one of those then use the Y.
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  #186  
Old Sun 19 November 2017, 21:07
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Yes Mike, same issue although not really an issue, I'm just expecting too much out of the motors.
Pete, first thing I should of done is refamiliarized, but my time is limited and I got impatient.
It would rise if I assisted it, but seemed way too weak of a motor, again just expecting much more, which is my fault.
I'm going to try other then McMaster Carr for a damper in closer range..
Pete, other then that, I'm gonna work on some reduction boxes using your files, just try and make them look sexier.
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  #187  
Old Mon 20 November 2017, 10:14
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Just so I understand. These motors move X & Y just fine?
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  #188  
Old Mon 20 November 2017, 11:39
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Yes Mike, the pk299 move the x & y fine, but fairly close to skipping steps( very heavy gantry tubes + y-car stuff). Pk299 wasn't tough enough for the Z's either, that's why I thought I had motor issues. And the Z,s didn't seem too tough to pull back up/ push down... Again just complete ignorance on my part about the motors.
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  #189  
Old Sat 02 December 2017, 12:25
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Hello all,

I've got the spindle spinning from mach3 through a PMDX-107, but cant change RPM through mach3. I used warpd9 smooth stepper settings for mach and set main parameters in VFD, setting PD013 first, then 5,4,3,6-12 & 140-145.
I think that it is a parameter that is set incorrectly, but not sure.
I'm using the Haunyang HY04d023b w/ 4kw spindle.
PD005 - 400
PD004 - 400
PD003 - 400
PD006 - 2.5
PD007 - 20
PD008 - 220
PD009 - 15
pd010 - 8
Pd011 - 120
PD014 - 12
PD015 - 12
PD141 - 220
PD142 - 10
PD143 - 3
PD144 - 3000
PD070 - 0

I also customized Pete's Z-axis plates, just put a couple curves in them. I was hoping someone could quote me on cutting them out. local quotes seem too high, but then again I'm not sure what a decent price is for something like this.
Attached Files
File Type: rar Pete's Z-Axis_Custom _4_to_1.rar (176.2 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by Father-of-Ash; Sat 02 December 2017 at 12:39.. Reason: spelling
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  #190  
Old Sat 02 December 2017, 12:41
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
I use a Hitachi drive so I would not be much help with confirming the settings but modbus can be tricky to set up in mach, I did have pics in my thread with the setup I used that could be for reference, also search cnczone for info
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  #191  
Old Sat 02 December 2017, 12:49
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
The more complex the part, the more it costs to make. A part that can be made manually that is quick and easy to make is less than one with complex curves. Changing the rounded rectangle to 1.5" radius or boxing it to use only a 0.500" endmill reduces cost to make as well. Most machine shops will work with you if you ask him what you can do to the part design to help lower the cost to get it within your budget.
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  #192  
Old Sun 03 December 2017, 10:44
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Thanks Pete, it seems most people go the modbus route. is the only reason RPM accuracy?

I got the part quoted both ways, modified and unmodified and he wanted $30 more per.

anyone willing to cut it?
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  #193  
Old Mon 04 December 2017, 17:56
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
If I'm looking at the right online manuals, you need to set PD-163, PD-164, PD-165 to an address, baud rate, and type of modbus protocol you want to use. Also PD-002 for what source controls frequency - probably value 2.

I can't tell if this article is obsolete or not in terms of setting up the Mach3 side.
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  #194  
Old Wed 06 December 2017, 16:27
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Thanks Brad, it doesn't look obsolete. same parameters as what my manual shows, but I'm not going modbus route. I believe those parameters are modbus only?

and can someone tell me what is a decent price to pay for those plates?

Thank you.
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  #195  
Old Wed 06 December 2017, 16:59
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Whoops, I missed that. So you're trying to PWM to control the frequency, and you're wired from the PMDX-107 to that input? Do you have PD-002 set to 1 ?
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  #196  
Old Wed 06 December 2017, 17:11
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Get quotes around your area and online with RFQs, they will vary much, figure cost of material plus standard cut rate plus tolerance fee. The lowest I have heard of is $50/hr but most will be a lot higher than that.
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  #197  
Old Wed 06 December 2017, 22:42
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Brad, correct and PD-002 is set to 1

does $225 per plate sound fair?
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  #198  
Old Thu 07 December 2017, 05:57
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
If the tolerance is +- 0.005, that is inline with most quotes I receive at work. But like I said, don't be afraid to shop around.
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  #199  
Old Mon 11 December 2017, 13:25
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Thanks Pete, most guys around here (Toledo) wont bother with the one off part.

next question might be silliest on the forum but...
When I'm standing in the "front" or "Material feed" end of the table, my spindle home is at the back right corner and when I bring my X forward, the DRO will read in the negative. So once i got my soft limits set, it wouldn't allow the X to budge from its home position. Y axis is fine as it goes into a positive reading from home.
So how do I flip the + and - readings on the X? I'm hoping software only solution...
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  #200  
Old Mon 11 December 2017, 13:48
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Change the wiring on the driver to the motor for x and b to reverse the direction it travels
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  #201  
Old Mon 11 December 2017, 14:23
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Or change the polarity on the direction pin, if your software allows.

Have you tried the various online machining services - emachineshop and the like? I haven't used them, but if you can't find a local shop, maybe one of those services will do.
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  #202  
Old Tue 12 December 2017, 20:29
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
For some reason my post submission didn't go through the other day.

I ended up swapping wiring, you can only reverse the slaved axis in software.

I tried online, came back at 250 not including some finishing touches I couldn't figure out in 3d. I ordered them from my first quote.

Mean time, still figuring out the spindle RPM issue. it will spin up to whatever parameter I have set in PD-011 "frequency lower limit" .

Once I get those plates in, I should have a working Z and hopefully make a first cut.
Till then, need to cut & thread some stand-offs and pulleys for gearboxes.

Thanks for your quick replies guys.
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  #203  
Old Tue 12 December 2017, 20:47
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
I think I would hang a meter across the analog speed input of your VFD to see what the measurement is, and if it varies in response to changing the software setting.

Based on what you've described I'd expect you'll find it's a low voltage and doesn't vary, causing minimum speed to be invoked.

Would you care to tell us:

1- Are you using 0-5v, 0-10v or ratiometric according to the PMDX manual wiring options?
2- Did you do the speed calibration shown in the PMDX-107 manual? Is the trim pot all the way counter clockwise at the moment?
3- What the PMDX-107 dip switch settings are?
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  #204  
Old Tue 12 December 2017, 21:45
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Wow

Ok, Reading from VI to ACM terminals is 0 and VI to DCM is .80
VI connected to Aout @ pmdx
DCM to COM " "
ACM to Agnd " "
I'm using 0-10v.
I didn't bother with calibration yet, trim pot is all the way counter clockwise.
All switches are set to the off position.

another confusing thing on the VFD is the dual terminal rails where there is an ACM and DCM on each rail. I tried using both with no difference.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1212172218[1].jpg (94.1 KB, 31 views)
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  #205  
Old Wed 13 December 2017, 07:21
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
That all seems correct. The redundant commons (ACM and DCM) are pretty er, commonly found for convenience when wiring multiple harnesses to the VFD.

I suspect that the trim point all the way down means you are never outputting any voltage, and you need to do the calibration as the next step, at which point you will get both voltage measurements, and speed control.
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  #206  
Old Wed 13 December 2017, 10:43
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
ok. more confusion. I made sure trim pot is all the way CC before starting system, started test mode and played with pot but nothing would happen. started system with pot turned fully clockwise and then tried adjusting and it would increase spindle RPM in the CC direction. spindle max RPM was almost fully CC, and then pressed test button once and it sped up to 375Hz then pressed button once more and exited test mode.
In mach3 I entered 1000 RPM and spindle went to almost its max RPM @ 398hz, and then when i tried increasing RPM even more by pressing the "+arrow", it dropped RPM and went to 320hz, then turned off spindle at which point it increased RPM again and then shut down.
And Parameters PD-072 & PD-073: Lower & Higher Analog frequency are set to 100 & 400.
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  #207  
Old Wed 13 December 2017, 10:56
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
What does a meter with black on ACM and red on VI show during the test? Any chance you have aout and agnd reversed?

I notice you have a yellow/green wire connected to VI, does that go to aout as it should?
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  #208  
Old Wed 13 December 2017, 12:21
Father-of-Ash
Just call me: Bilal
 
Toledo, OH
United States of America
Again, thank you for the quick replies.

ACM to VI is still 0
DCM to VI is .6

Yes, VI is connected to Aout

Any idea why trim pot is functioning backwards?
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  #209  
Old Wed 13 December 2017, 13:06
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
So not getting a reading from ACM to VI is weird, and so is getting a reading from DCM to VI. It makes me continue to be suspicious of a wiring error. I assume the reading at VI must have moved during the test or you wouldn't have seen frequency variation. Are you able to set up the meter so that you can watch it during the test?

Theories on trim pot backwards:

It's acting as if you're moving against a 10v reference instead of ground; when it's all the way up 10v-10v = 0v = no motion. As you decrease you get 10v - 7v = 3v, 10v - 5v = 5v, ... 10v - 0v = 10v.

Or, as if you have PD071 - PD076 set up for a reverse curve.

Hmm. What's the voltage between ACM and DCM? Should be either an open circuit, or 0v.
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