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  #181  
Old Sat 28 June 2014, 08:59
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Thanks for the input. Ger, I will give that a try (when the bit arrives). Just did the toolpath for it, 40:40 ....sounds a lot better than the nearly 3 hours I was looking at
I will let everyone know how things turn out.
Mark
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  #182  
Old Sat 28 June 2014, 09:43
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
I would not use a fly cutter. Insert type would be the best, I use a Freud bit 12-190. Ger mentioned something I did not, I remove 0.025" at each re-surface. MDF is all about the correct feed/speed. It takes about 40 minutes to complete at 80ipm. If I used Ger settings it would be around 15 minutes. You will know it you push too hard or too slow, MDF has a distinct burning smell when you are over or under the cutting speed/feed even when burn marks are not on the material.
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  #183  
Old Sat 28 June 2014, 12:40
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Hi Pete
My table size is 5x10, I am surfacing at 120"x 61". So may take a bit longer than a 4x8. But I will certainly keep smelling for an incorrect feedrate!
I wonder if the Fly cutter would be ok with a spindle/VFD set up?
Mark
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  #184  
Old Sat 28 June 2014, 14:59
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Also, be mindful that if you surface to fast, the leading edge of the large cutter with scallop the table and may leave a less-than-flat table. I found this true with my router set up..not so much with the spindle....but happened.
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  #185  
Old Sat 28 June 2014, 15:28
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Thanks Sean...there should be a whole section on just spoilboards
Mark
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  #186  
Old Sun 29 June 2014, 08:54
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
The limiting factor (in my opinion) with the fly cutter is it requires a solid machine made for machining metal. The bearings in a spindle are a high speed, high precision bearing the same as a mill spindle. However, a most mills spin a maximum of 2400 rpm. A well built mill as other factors that make it suitable for offset cutters where this machine is not. The spindle in a mill is housed in a block of steel or bored into casting for the head. The clearance is usually 0.0005" or less. The head is locked down to the body of the mill. We use 6 single row bearings for the up and down of the Z with only the V groove holding it in. Even if you have linear bearings they are designed for compression loads and not extreme dynamic forces like you receive from a fly cutter. With the speed it would be turning at I would stick to tooling designed for wood routing.
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  #187  
Old Sun 29 June 2014, 09:42
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Thanks Pete...that makes a lot of sense. I will be using the 2 flute 1 1/2" for now. When I can upgrade to a spindle and a surfacing cutter with inserts, that's the way I will go.
Pete, I also may be contacting you (if you don't mind) when I am moving on the VFD, I think the Hitachi WJ200 that you mentioned earlier sounds like the way to go. But may have some questions on the set up etc?
Mark
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  #188  
Old Sun 29 June 2014, 09:45
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
No problem if you need to.
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  #189  
Old Sun 29 June 2014, 10:24
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Thank you Pete! I tell ya...if I put one more thing on my tech plate, my head is going to explode!!! Just to give you an idea, right now I am working on of course learning the Mach3 and CAD for MM, building 4 MAME machines (really cool project if you aren't familiar, for those of us of a certain age), a kiosk built around the Raspberry Pi (Linux based system), down-grading a laptop that is pre-loaded with Win8 to Win7 (those that don't know, Win8 basically locks you out of doing that with loading prior to hitting the "hard drive", BIOS is gone and is now UEFI...just terrible to deal with. And finally my wife has her first smart phone...and though I love her dearly...she is perhaps one of the least techie people on earth
So again, thanks for the offer!
Mark
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  #190  
Old Sun 29 June 2014, 13:59
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
I can't say anything about the smartphone, all mine are dumb indeed however my wife wants one now. I am terribly hard on cell phones, tend to break even the brick style ones(literally crack, smash or shatter) all while in my pocket. So for financial reasons, I have never purchased one. With your MAME are they all one station or vary?
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  #191  
Old Sun 29 June 2014, 14:29
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Yep, that's exactly why I keep it out of my pocket while in the shop...always hitting on something. The MAMEs are all individual and identical. I had told a few friends that I would make them, once I had the MM to do it on.
Mark
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  #192  
Old Sun 29 June 2014, 20:08
barry99705
Just call me: Barry
 
Xenia
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMMark View Post
Thank you Pete! I tell ya...if I put one more thing on my tech plate, my head is going to explode!!! Just to give you an idea, right now I am working on of course learning the Mach3 and CAD for MM, building 4 MAME machines (really cool project if you aren't familiar, for those of us of a certain age), a kiosk built around the Raspberry Pi (Linux based system), down-grading a laptop that is pre-loaded with Win8 to Win7 (those that don't know, Win8 basically locks you out of doing that with loading prior to hitting the "hard drive", BIOS is gone and is now UEFI...just terrible to deal with. And finally my wife has her first smart phone...and though I love her dearly...she is perhaps one of the least techie people on earth
So again, thanks for the offer!
Mark
Depending on who made the laptop, you should be able to disable secure boot in uefi. My Dell XPS12 came with windows 8 and I had Debian running on it for a while. Went back to 8 until they get the touch drivers worked out. Most current linux distributions support efi, and so will windows 7.
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  #193  
Old Sun 29 June 2014, 20:25
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Yes, I went with a Dell. Started with Asus, but there was no way to boot from dvd or usb (even with secure boot disabled) Dell states, as long as it is preliaded with Win8 pro, you can down grade to 7.
Just got it today, haven't had a try at it yet.
Just learned about Debian working with Raspberry Pi.
Mark
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  #194  
Old Mon 30 June 2014, 08:12
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Quick question on tabs. How many and size? Take for example, 3/4" sheet , cutting several 1.250" holes. How many tabs per hole and what length and thickness would you use? I did a practice part...and took a lot of work to get the holes smooth. I think I used too many and too large?
Thanks
Mark
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  #195  
Old Mon 30 June 2014, 19:44
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
I'd do no more than 3.
.375 should be plenty big.
Have you tried 3-d tabs?
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  #196  
Old Mon 30 June 2014, 21:34
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Depends on how flat you sheets lay. I have used only 0.080" thick at 0.438 length before but others I have used 0.11 thick. I have used both 3D and standard tabs. Generally I only use 3 on circles unless they are over 12" diameter.
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  #197  
Old Tue 01 July 2014, 00:09
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I just leace 0.1~0.2mm onion skin on, not cutting through. the skin will tear off very easily & sanding will be minimum. Since no matter how you do it, you will have to SAND.
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  #198  
Old Tue 01 July 2014, 10:12
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Thanks for the input...I am afraid that I don't know what standard tabs vs. 3D tabs are?
Mark
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  #199  
Old Tue 01 July 2014, 10:22
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Mark.
A standard tab is a flat, single height tab that is like a rectangular block.
A 3d tab has a ramp on the lead in and lead out of the block to minimize the about of material to be removed but laterally long enough to keep the part from shifting.

....think dinner plate vs. upside down bowl.
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  #200  
Old Tue 01 July 2014, 16:18
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Got it (I think) so, as long as it is strong enough to hold....I guess a 3D would be preferable? Also (I know Google is my friend) so I searched, I guess this is an example of a 3D tab? ; http://www.wired.com/2012/10/you-suc...lding_tab_cut/

Mark
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  #201  
Old Wed 02 July 2014, 06:04
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
Yes, that's a 3-d tab.
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  #202  
Old Mon 07 July 2014, 15:39
Andrew_standen
Just call me: Andrew #109
 
Dorset
United Kingdom
I am a bit late on reading this thread.
I run a 2.2kw water cooled spindle.
I skim my board ( 2440 by 1220 ) with a 40mm dia cutter. 9000 rpm 7500mm feed rate 1mm depth of cut. Sure makes a lot of dust if the extract is not switched on. ...lol
I use 3d tabs 90 percent of the time. 5 percent is onion skinned. 5 percent i forget and make a right mess of things ...
Cheers Andrew
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  #203  
Old Thu 13 November 2014, 11:46
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Wasn't really sure where to put this post...so I thought I would throw it on my build thread.
Does anyone here know jhiggins7 (John #26)? I haven't heard from him and have not seen any posts from him in quite some time. Just hoping he is ok?
He helped me out with a project awhile ago and wanted to let him know how it all turned out.
Thanks
Mark
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  #204  
Old Thu 13 November 2014, 19:37
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
His last activity on the board was today. Have you tried sending him a PM?
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  #205  
Old Thu 13 November 2014, 20:26
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Yes, glad to report that I have heard from John. Sounds like he is doing well.
Mark
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  #206  
Old Sun 31 May 2015, 11:24
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Looking for any advice!
I have to make some parts, 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" thick. I can use plywood, pine, mdf or really most anything paintable. I have some 1 1/4" mdf, but not loving it. Tons of dust, hard on bits (unless I am doing something wrong)? Of course I want to use least expensive material, do as fast as possible, etc. I could use standard construction grade 2x6's, knots and edge finish is not important. Any thoughts, on material and corresponding bit size, speed and feeds would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Mark
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  #207  
Old Sun 31 May 2015, 13:09
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Use the chipload for the type of material from the manufacturer and start by using the calculated lower end feed and adjust acoordingly. My preference is solid carbide bits or carbide insert that are brazed on. It does not need to be a top of line bit but better than your El cheapo ones. MDF is dusty but you should be getting descent sized chips and not dust, if not, the dust will wear down the cutting edge. That is true for all cutting. That being said, MDF will have a shorter tool life but you could always use a burr bit, as some guys have reported good results with those. As far as what to use, indoor, outdoor, stability, longevity, 2D, 3D. .. you need to take all into account and go from there. You do not have any of that listed so we would not be able to answer you.
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  #208  
Old Mon 01 June 2015, 08:53
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
Thanks Pete
I have not worked much at all with MDF. I am getting mostly dust, not chips? I was cutting 3/4" MDF, using a Whiteside 1/2", up/down compression bit (can't find any info on chip load). I was cutting at 16,000 RPM, feed at 100 ipm, 0.220 depth per cut. Any thoughts on that, perhaps to slow on the feed?
This is an indoor project, making craft angels. Pretty simple cut out shape that is getting painted. I suggesed MDF thinking it would be easy to paint, but not having worked with it (except for just some basic cutting on a table saw). Perhaps using 2x pine would be a better choice (unless, I can get the MDF going)? The old supplier for this passed away, and I am sure was using 2x pine cut out on a band saw. Also FYI, I have a router (no spindle yet) , RPM range of 10,000 to 23,500.
Thanks for any input.
Mark
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  #209  
Old Mon 01 June 2015, 09:17
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Now this will not be exact for your bit but they have an up down spiral which is the 60-100 series I believe. Double check it, don't take my word for it.

http://www.onsrud.com/xdoc/feedspeeds

Using the formula they give and like I said start at the lower end is best. Another thing to notice is the temperature of your cutter after the cut. If it is more than warm to the touch (a little above room temperature), your feed/speed is wrong. The heat should go into the material being removed and not the cutter. I don't usually go over 12k RPM with MDF but it is all about the machine so others may be able to run faster and not have chatter on their parts because of the rigidity of the machine and quality of the bit.

A lot of people think run the speed faster and the machine slower is conservative but it will destroy a bit as fast as speed too slow and machine too fast. It all has to match.

You will find that with chipload or IPT (inches per tooth) that most manufacturers don't give them. So once you find a good chipload and long tool life for that tool, be sure to write it down. You can always call the manufacturer and ask for the chipload.

Pine probably would be fine but remember it does like to cup as it dries out. Try one and see how it goes. I hope this helps you in some way and I am sure others will give their advice as well.
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  #210  
Old Mon 01 June 2015, 10:20
IMMark
Just call me: Mark #119
 
Columbus Ohio
United States of America
I took a look at that, Thanks!
If I have this correct, running 12K rpm, with 2 cutting edges, and a chip load of .016; would give me a feed rate of 384 ipm? Do you agree with that? Also, if that is correct...my feed rate was way to slow at 100 ipm. I have never run anything near that fast, that is why I am just double checking!
Thanks again for the input!
Mark
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