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  #31  
Old Sun 24 June 2007, 11:50
bphilpott
Just call me: Brian
 
La Porte
United States of America
Can you post this diagram in a version that I can use zoom to see details?
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  #32  
Old Sun 24 June 2007, 12:40
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Treat with the greatest suspicion.....
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Panel Wiring 10.pdf (73.8 KB, 1480 views)
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  #33  
Old Mon 25 June 2007, 19:46
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
Here is a report on a "CNC Workshop" held in the US recently.

Where can I find out about this CNC work shop? I'm going next year!!

Greg
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  #34  
Old Mon 25 June 2007, 22:13
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
It is held at Cardinal Engineering, Galesburg, Illinois, but I don't know how the folk get invited. Here is an out-of-date web page: http://www.cnc-workshop.com/
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  #35  
Old Mon 25 June 2007, 22:28
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Thanks again!!

Do you ever envision a workshop for the MechMate crew? I'd come to SA.

Don't you ever sleep?
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  #36  
Old Tue 26 June 2007, 11:23
Marc Shlaes
Just call me: Marc
 
Cleveland, OH
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to Marc Shlaes
I'd second that trip to SA.
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  #37  
Old Tue 26 June 2007, 12:32
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The date on my previous post is 5:13am. I sleep from about 9:30pm to 5:00am, local time of course. If you catch me on-line between these hours, I am talking in my sleep

You guys would be very welcome out here. Surely the CNC side makes it tax-deductible?
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  #38  
Old Tue 02 October 2007, 19:53
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
Gerald,
I'm close to starting the wiring portion of this project and have been intensely studying the schematics and the photos of your control box. Two questions have come up.

1) Why did you run the cables from the stepper motors directly to your Gecko drives rather than routing them through the terminal blocks? Was it due to a shortage of space for additional blocks or was there another reason? I'm not being critical - just trying to learn. If I have enough room for the extra terminal blocks, can you think of a reason why I shouldn't route the cables through them?

2) Is there a trick to locating the hole for the yellow isolator handle on the front door of the box exactly where it should be so it lines up with the din rail mounted switch? I've worked hard to make my machine look as good as possible and I don't want to screw up something as visible as the front of the box.

Thanks again for all you've done for us.
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  #39  
Old Tue 02 October 2007, 20:47
driller
Just call me:
 
Wiring the steppers into the cabinet is easy enough.

but there is no real added benefit to adding additional screw terminals. There is the added potential of one straw strand of wire shorting or becoming loose or weak.

I too wire Geckos directly to the motor.

Dave
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  #40  
Old Tue 02 October 2007, 21:23
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Doug, before the days of Gecko Vampires, the drives were extremely sensitive to a loose connection with the motor. An accidental break in a motor wire causes smoke - the expensive kind. So the logic is to have as few joints in those cables as possible. (The Vampire is supposed to cure that potential problem, but I don't use Vampires)

Another reason was to get a continuous shield/screen of the cable right up to the drive.

Positioning that handle . . . . . . .
For left/right you can move the switch along the rail afterwards. This is the tricky direction because of the hinge rotation of the door, but the adjustment on the rail makes it easy.
For vertical position I just stood the box on a flat surface and measured the height to the dangling shaft - was easy enough to transfer this height to the door front.
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  #41  
Old Wed 03 October 2007, 14:18
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Grabouw (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
I sleep from about 9:30pm to 5:00am, local time of course. If you catch me on-line between these hours, I am talking in my sleep
I see from your last post you are talking in your sleep again???
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  #42  
Old Wed 03 October 2007, 16:12
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
I've been wondering if it wouldn't be better to use different connectors on the Gecko G20x stepper drivers. As configured from the factory, the headers are four sets of three; however, using a 2-4-4-2 configuration would match the functions better. For instance, positions 1-2 are for power in, positions 3-6 are outputs to the motor's coils, positions 7-10 are inputs (step/direction/common/disable), and positions 11-12 are for the current limiting resistor.

If the headers were of the 2-4-4-2 type, then all of the motor's connections would be on one 4-terminal connector, which would allow easy connection without excessive wiring/rewiring.

I normally use an eight-position + chassis ground terminal block for my 6-wire motors. Positions 1-6 are for the six conductors to the motor. Positions 7-8 are for the current limiting resistor and chassis ground is for the shield/drain surrounding the conductors going to the motor's coils. By doing that, I can standardize all 6-wire wiring regardless of which motor I'm using.
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  #43  
Old Wed 03 October 2007, 16:35
driller
Just call me:
 
you are correct. Earlier versions had one connector. but, alas, soemtimes it is cheaper to get all of one type, even if that type does not match the needs exactly.

My 201a Gecko's have a single fixed block, does not come out. but these are from the very first run. Revision A drivers.

Dave
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  #44  
Old Wed 03 October 2007, 19:04
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
Thanks Gerald/Driller/Mike. I knew there was a good reason. Engineers never do anything on a whim. I'll wire mine directly to the Geckos and I'll use the terminal block tip from Mike.
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  #45  
Old Thu 04 October 2007, 01:32
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
If you do change the terminal blocks, make sure you get a good quality. Gecko did have a bad experience with a supplier just over a year ago and were obliged to find a better quality. "Bad quality" connectors loose their grip on the header pins if disconnected too often. In general, this style of connector is not designed for daily/regular use. The "poor quality" that Gecko had before would survive maybe 5 to 20 disconnections only - I guess the better quality one will go into the hundreds . . . . . ?
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  #46  
Old Thu 25 October 2007, 22:02
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
I've ruled out using the 2-4-4-2 connectors on my Geckos. I really like the idea but every time I pulled the current connectors off and then replaced them, I was scared me to death that I'd break one. If I had your electonics experience, I probably wouldn't be so worried but I'm a newby at this stuff.
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  #47  
Old Thu 25 October 2007, 22:25
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
Doug,
The 2-4-4-2 connectors were just an idea. So far, I haven't been able to find any. It seems that the only choice is 2-circuit and 3-circuit connectors.

I think that I may have given the wrong idea on why I would use them (if I could find them). I like to mount heavy stuff like the transformer, caps, stepper drivers, etc. and then wire everything together. Sometimes, there just isn't enough room to easily wire things together after installing major components; so, that's why I like removable connectors. Once they're properly wired and installed, they would stay installed for the life of the component. I don't think that even the new black headers are designed to be installed/removed more than just a very few times without loosing their integrity.
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  #48  
Old Thu 25 October 2007, 23:55
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Gecko's 6-6 terminal blocks are actually 3-3-3-3. There are tiny dovetails between the blocks. Gecko uses a knife or chisel to cut off the center dovetails and make 6-6. You can use 2's (or 3's) and dovetail them together as you wish - just cut off the dovetails where you want seperation.

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  #49  
Old Mon 26 November 2007, 20:29
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
Gerald/Mike/Anyone,

I want to mark my wires and terminals so tonight I bought a set of stickers designed for such a purpose at Home Depot. I plan to stick them on and then cover each one with clear heat shrink. My question is this: is there some type of numbering or lettering convention I should follow? Do I letter the terminals and number the wires and then use a reference sheet to record it all? Do I give the wire the same number or letter as the terminal it connects to? I don't want someone looking inside my box and instantly knowing that I'm a moron.
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  #50  
Old Mon 26 November 2007, 21:02
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Doug, I havn't come across the "wrong" way to mark wires. Somebody else's numbers are mostly considered to be understood only by them. I would say design your own system.
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  #51  
Old Mon 26 November 2007, 23:43
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
Doug, I agree with Gerald. As long as you make an accurate chart, any marking scheme that you decide to use will be valuable. If possible, look at the documentation that Kodak or IBM provides to their customers. In a typical binder you'll find a theory of operation, flow charts, complete schematics for each device in the machine, wiring tables, and a trouble-shooting guide. The more documentation that you can provide now, the easier it will be to diagnose a problem sometime in the future.
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  #52  
Old Tue 27 November 2007, 04:18
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Terminal Blocks - for a guy not use to using these things and now having some understanding of what they do, can you (Gerald or Mike) suggest a model and source for these things that will give me long term use.
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  #53  
Old Tue 27 November 2007, 08:25
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Nils, I think the rest of the guys have more recently bought them. I have never seen poor quality ones, but then again I sit on another continent.
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  #54  
Old Tue 27 November 2007, 08:57
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
Over the years, I've used whatever brands that I could buy locally. They have all been good quality. The only drawback of mixing brands is that each brand seems to have a snap-together feature that doesn't match the snap-together feature of another brand.

I just checked the offerings at www.automationdirect.com. They have the DN-T12 terminal block (Euro 2.5) for wire up to 12 gauge and the DN-T10 terminal block (Euro 4) for wire up to 10 guage. (I use the Euro 4 size because my favorite terminal block screwdriver fits the screw heads better.) In addition to the terminal block, you'll need to order some endbrackets similar to the DN-EB35, some endcaps similar to the DN-EC1210 and some rail similar to DN-R35S1. Also, think about buying some jumper bars and some pre-printed labels or tags. The jumper bars allow you to more easily connect a series of terminal blocks together. The labels or tags makes it easier to document each terminal block.

You may be able to find terminal blocks locally. Even though the blocks that I buy locally cost about two times more than the blocks from FactoryMation or AutomationDirect, I can buy just the quantities that I need instead of being forced to buy full boxes.
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  #55  
Old Thu 13 December 2007, 11:20
Bill McGuire
Just call me: Bill
 
Weiser, Idaho
United States of America
Gerald...
I have been looking at your photos above and on post #2, you mentioned that:

3. The empty terminals further right are for the shielded cables to the E-stops, Z-zero, etc. All Inputs. The shields also have terminals dedicated to them.

I cannot see where any of the shields (braided?) are connected in your pictures... or just how they are connected. Is there a specific "braid" connector made for these situations or is it similar to an AV cable in which the braids are picked up and grounded on a terminal itself? My thought... slice the braid back from the cable, twist it and crimp a connector to it... seemed amateurish (which, incidentally, I am attempting to work my way UP to)...

Thanks... as always... for your help
Bill McGuire
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  #56  
Old Thu 13 December 2007, 11:53
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
This is the only pic I can find now:


Yes, I do crimp a lug onto the braid. In the pic above the wire is thin and the lug is massive in comparison.

I don't unravel the braid to get the wires out - I actually pull the wires through the side of the braid "tube" leaving the braid pattern intact. This is easier than it sounds..... Bend the stripped end of the cable over like a hairpin, then pick the wires out of the top of the kink. Must find another photo . . . . .
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  #57  
Old Thu 13 December 2007, 18:12
Bill McGuire
Just call me: Bill
 
Weiser, Idaho
United States of America
Thanks Gerald...
You explained it very well. I just wish I'd taken up miniature jewelry work back when my fingers were still coordinated with my brain... it'd probably make my life easier when I get to this phase...
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  #58  
Old Sat 11 October 2008, 11:19
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
G' what the AMPS on the contactor? I was planning for 32Amps which will include the power to VFD, is it wrong to feed the VFD from the contactor?

RGDS
Irfan
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  #59  
Old Sat 11 October 2008, 11:52
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
G' my mistake again I looked over the drawings and its clear now that the VFD can be connected thru the contactor.
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  #60  
Old Sat 11 October 2008, 12:12
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Irfan, the issue here is: How can we stop the spindle with the E-stop?

That is the reason the VFD is powered from the main (E-stopped) contactor.
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