MechMate CNC Router Forum

Go Back   MechMate CNC Router Forum > Personal Build Histories > MechMates already cutting
Register Options Profile Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #241  
Old Wed 12 March 2014, 10:44
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
A router design is just not there to replace big iron milling machine center.
However you do it it can't be perfect.
If you must do it, at least use real rectangle rail & carriage for best rigidity.
U did mentioned poor quality wheels, did you machine them yourself?
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old Wed 12 March 2014, 11:09
Axel1966
Just call me: Axel
 
Paris
France
I own the 4 systems and I can compare SBR, TBR, Linear guideways, and I use also Hepco precision forged and machined Vgroove rails and bearings, which I belive represents the next level compared to the standard Mechmate's V rails, made with the skateboard. They are more expensive than an SBR20 system, but not as good as a SBR system. The lateral load is not as good, and you need a double V-rail in opposition to realy limit a movement on an axis. I mean, like the Z plate of the mechmate, some V-bearings on each side. The MechMate principle counts on the weight to manage the rising force. The SBR stands between the V-groove and the Linear guideway system. According you compare the best quality of each system.

Marko, the best machine possible means always an expensive machine. Quality and money are always linked. From linear guideways to servo motors. I talked about TBR, because their profile is lower than SBR, and the mounting surface is larger. Two reasons to choose TBR when it's possible.
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old Wed 12 March 2014, 15:08
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Again here is the overall problem. V-rail, shaft linear and profile linear rails are all designed for compression load. When machining wood, the uplift is minimal compared to metal so most of the load is compression. The exception would be the capture of the Z axis. It does this fairly well even with only using radial bearings.
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old Thu 13 March 2014, 02:41
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
@Ken
No I did not make them myself, as if I did, they would be much better done.
And I can go to rectangular linear guides, because that cost a lot more.

I dont understand this one thing.
Everybody says go to this solution, and all are fleeing from SRB20 linear guide.
If I use 10 mm round linear guide it would still be better then these V groove rails (like Axel said)
V groove is lowest possible rails, and if I'd compare this with cars, these V grooved rails are a carriage and SRB20 are VW passat CC.
I am not trying to build a perfect machine, and with all the money in the world, there are no such thing as perfect, but this will be MAJOR improvement, in stiffnes, in precision, in quality, in reliability.
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old Thu 13 March 2014, 04:17
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
It is all a subjective weighing scale decision process.
You balance the subjective/objective pros and the cons, and even than, when the result says left... you can still decide to go right.

I merely mean that for me personally round linear rails require all the prep you have to do for straight linears and already a large part of the costs. If I am not happy with the V-rails (to be decided) I will go straight for the SKF rectanugar linears which I bought for the same(!) money as you bought your round ones. Yes, they can be found used ( and mine are not worn I might add) for small money as well.

I am with Ken, that the MM is good at what it does, and does not incorporate the rigidity of a metal CNC, but when you adapt speeds and feeds, and spindle, can still be used to machine metal. But.... if you mostly cut 300x300 mm size objects to high accuracy in metal, your better/quicker/more economic solution would be to adapt a rigid manual milling machine to CNC.

Having said that tinkering is good and I follow your thread with great interest.

Last edited by Fox; Thu 13 March 2014 at 04:22..
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old Thu 13 March 2014, 07:03
Axel1966
Just call me: Axel
 
Paris
France
The MechMate was engineered to beat the expensive ShopBot One, at low cost, with ordinary tools, skils and knowledge. And that was a succes. The MechMate do pretty well it's job : cutting wood and/or pannels at a good speed, and much better than some can say. It can make an reasonable plasma cutter, even if it's not necessary to build that heavy for this job. In my opinion, the MechMate is not born to be a metalworking machine. Those are pretty different in many ways, it's not just a question of rails. Anyone can modify the guides and other stuff, to cure some problems, but it can't be a good production machine to make money on machining metal parts. Eventualy for grooving aluminium sheets, but not engineered or metal parts. You will cure a problem to discover a new one. You talked about cars, so can transform a city car to transport concrete bags, but it will never do it as well as a truck, and certainly not for the same life time. I know it's not what you wanted to hear Marko.

Last edited by Axel1966; Thu 13 March 2014 at 07:05..
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old Thu 13 March 2014, 18:34
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
We are not beating on you. We are trying to normalize your expectations. I work on mills, lathes, CNC mills and lathes. There has to be a consumable part to wear and the bearings are not meant to be that part. They are precision placement. You will require gibs for a long lasting machine for cutting metal. Replacing with profile linears (what you are calling rectangle) or round linears I fear will not give you what you are hoping for. Only a higher repair cost.
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old Mon 14 July 2014, 11:23
akelemen
Just call me: Andras
 
Stäfa
Switzerland
Marko, I am planning to build a MM in Hungary. May I ask you where did you order the laser cut and bent parts?

many thanks,
Andras
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old Sun 26 October 2014, 11:37
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Marko,
Did you make the upgrades you were planning on doing?
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old Sun 26 October 2014, 14:09
servant74
Just call me: Jack
 
Nashville (Tennessee)
United States of America
Looking at images on the first page, all I see is advertisements from image shack. ... Bummer.
Reply With Quote
  #251  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 02:51
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Hello Pete and Jack.

I have made all the upgrades to my machine. I installed 20 mm shafts on all axis and my machine is now very rigid.
The calibration was done in matter of 2-3 hours, unlike V groove rails which were pain to modify.
I still havent installed liquid cooling, but that will be done in a week or two, and have been cutting aluminium with 1 mm stepdown in 20 mm/sec and all my cuts are pretty good and quality.
Only thing that is bugging me now is rack and pinion which is very low quality and I can feel the vibrations transferred to end bit, but its very very small, and not like before.
There is always room for improvement, but I am very satisfied with machine, and will plan to make a reduction 5:1 in the next few months.
I could be moving to a smaller machine, duo the fact that my workshop is smaller and machine is to big and I am using 40 % of working area.
Here are some photos of the machine and you can check my progress on my facebook profile
@Jack: I would nee to re upload whole progress, but you can check here full prgoress: lopataos.blogspot.com
https://www.facebook.com/maister.cnc










Reply With Quote
  #252  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 03:12
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Great to hear from you. I am glad things are working out. Do you have any pics of the upgrade process?
Reply With Quote
  #253  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 07:02
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Wow! it looked heavy. after the heavy-mod.

10:1 bear box seems like a must.

You should has went straight to CNC-fy a knee mill in the 1st place.

Last edited by KenC; Mon 27 October 2014 at 07:06..
Reply With Quote
  #254  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 08:12
slobato
Just call me: Leandro
 
Lauro de Freitas
Brazil
Marko

This upgrade means, better precision? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #255  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 10:09
servant74
Just call me: Jack
 
Nashville (Tennessee)
United States of America
Wow! ... Thanks for the updates!
Reply With Quote
  #256  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 15:01
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Hello guys,

I was trying to beat the clock, I was working all day doing the upgrade, and did not take any pictures.
@Ken: 5:1 would be plenty of resolution, and would still have the speed of 120 mm/sec to wooden parts.
@Leo: Precision is much better, no more vibrations and pretty stiff machine. Al thou, machine is a bigger then I need it to be.
With new rack and pinion, I would not even see the tool marks on aluminium, which are now pretty small.
@Jack: no problem. I guess I lost my account pictures and will post here or on Facebook.

I'm moving in aluminium and titanium cutting, and completely moving into bicycle business.


Here are some pictures:


Reply With Quote
  #257  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 20:09
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
So that whole part was machined on you MechMate?
Reply With Quote
  #258  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 20:28
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
You guys with Facebook accounts really should send Marko a friend request.
He posts some serious cool pics of bike parts there.
Reply With Quote
  #259  
Old Tue 28 October 2014, 04:44
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
@Mike:
Yeah, whole bashguard was made on my Mechmate. How do you like it?
But that was cut on low quality end bit.
I am trying to some Datron or Iscar end bits, they are by far superior end bits for aluminium.
Feeds and speed are 200% then regular, and finish is industrial.
Precision is pretty high and vibrations are really low, so I will give it a go to machine Titanium Grade 5.
@Darren, thank for inviting people on my facebook page.
This is my company facebook profile:
https://www.facebook.com/shovelbicycleparts
Reply With Quote
  #260  
Old Tue 28 October 2014, 10:19
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
Hi Marko,

good stuff that your share the upgrades, and nice to hear it was worthwhile.
You are cutting nice things ! I am impressed with the speeds you seem to be cutting at.
Are you willing to share some of the parameters and the bit's you are using ?
I am just cutting woods now, but am looking forward to some alu experiments soon.

It seem to me you are tumbling all parts after cutting, to get a better finish, right ?

If I we're you, with all your experience in alu, the first thing I would cut right now would be some nice gearboxes from aluminum, 3:1 or 4:1 be fine ( I am using 4:1 myself ).
That will improve things significantly !

Ps.
Why did you mount your rack teeth pointing upwards ? It's a dust/debree magnet that way ?

Last edited by Fox; Tue 28 October 2014 at 10:34..
Reply With Quote
  #261  
Old Tue 28 October 2014, 10:47
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Hi Fox,

The tools I am cutting with is Iscar tools 4 mm single flute carbide end mill which I got from a friend, and he orders it for me, I cant find you a link.
Another end bits I am using and are also very good is Datron end bits. http://www.datron.com/ single flute. They are also pretty awsome, although they cant compete with quality of iscar end bits.
With iscar end bits, I am cutting with 1 mm stepdown with around 20-25 mm/sec @12000-15000 RPM ( belive in 1 point I was going 30 mm, cant recall for sure), and cutting is pretty silent.
As I was doing some stuff the other day, and got my clamp somewhere stupid, I broke my iscar end bit and I cant make a video how its cutting.
I have some iscar 3 flutes en bits, but they are designed for harder alloys of aluminium, and with much greater speeds (something like 50 mm/sec with 1 mm stepdown) and im still afraid to use them.
Or even better, they are deisgned to use with 10 mm stepdown, and with 1 mm stepover at 20 mm/sec.

Mounting my rack facing upside was because my spring were pretty weak, and when I got vibrations on my old system, rack and pinion tend to split apart, which cost me a vibrations and lost steps.
In this way, weight and spring are pressing motor on the rack and its pretty solid build.
only thing is my alu debree is finding its was to the rack. I will manage that with some liquid cooling and a little plastic on Y slide to act as a cover for debree.

Fun part will be cutting Titanium

Last edited by marko cro; Tue 28 October 2014 at 10:58..
Reply With Quote
  #262  
Old Tue 28 October 2014, 11:11
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
Hi Marko,

Thank you for that info !

I know of a little trick that I saw on a commercial machine which has rack pointing upwards:

They make two rollers ( with bearings ) on either of the machine axis. Then take an industrial quality belt. Fasten one end on the gantry, go over the roller on one end (left for example), round it, then all the way back to the roller on the other end (right for example), round it, then attach to the gantry again ( other side then where you started). You've created a loop around the rack. When the machine moves, the belt will follow, and the rack is always covered.

Last edited by Fox; Tue 28 October 2014 at 11:21..
Reply With Quote
  #263  
Old Wed 29 October 2014, 05:31
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
Wow, cool work on the Facebook page Marko. I assume your machining the carbon fibre on the MechMate too? Are you also doing your own anodising? And those handle clamp bottle openers are they before stiffening mods or after?
Reply With Quote
  #264  
Old Sat 01 November 2014, 18:47
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Hi Dale,

Yes, I machine also a carbon fiber, but they are pretty easy to machine, with proper tool.
I am also doing all by myself anodizing of my parts and I have achieved some pretty good results.
I don't think I understand the question, can you rephrase it please. Also, those bottle openers did not get anodized properly, due the some iron in aluminium 6062.
Additionally, I have purchased a small tumbler and tumbling parts alone.
I have given 3 years of my life for this, and I like how it goes so far.
I am glad you like it.
https://shop.vhf.eu endbits I was talking about. Not Iscar.

Marko
Reply With Quote
  #265  
Old Sun 02 November 2014, 22:25
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
You answered my question I was looking at the bottle openers and thinking the finish was not as good as some other parts and wondering if you made them before you performed your stiffening and rail modifications to your MM.
Reply With Quote
  #266  
Old Tue 03 February 2015, 17:56
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Long time no see
Well, here is some Titanium (Grade 5), tough cookie to chew. But not for my MM.
I am cutting 0.3 stepdown with 15 mm sec, or 0.5 with 12 mm sec, and that was tested without cooling liquid.
With cooling I would dare to go 0.7 SD with 15 mm /sec.
This chainring still needs some machining, but that will come tomorrow.
Nothing is imposible.


Reply With Quote
  #267  
Old Tue 03 February 2015, 19:21
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
Send a message via Yahoo to Robert M Send a message via Skype™ to Robert M
Woaw....nice...and impressive (for me) !!
To say....lately on my side I'm having a had time with simple....Baltic birch ply
Reply With Quote
  #268  
Old Tue 24 February 2015, 16:20
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Thank you Robert.

I was pleasantly suprised with end bits and rigidity of my machine.
What seems to be your problem with machine?

Marko
Reply With Quote
  #269  
Old Tue 24 February 2015, 17:10
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
Send a message via Yahoo to Robert M Send a message via Skype™ to Robert M
Hi Marco....
I'd say it's many little details of witch, one on one by them self would go through unseen or unnoticed, but since I move my beast to it's ( & my) new home, it's not the same. I have to find time to give it a total inspection not to say refresh.
For work that need additional hand (or machined) attention, it's perfect, it does the job quite fine, but for detailing & having a nice finish....say like engraving.....or as you did......not quite there anymore
Nerver the less....I'm still VERY please, but it's due for a good check up & fix up...That all...I think
Later
Reply With Quote
  #270  
Old Wed 25 February 2015, 12:59
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
Nice work. I have another question. When you fixed your linear rails, did you level your beams with epoxy? Or just shimmed around each bolt in your linears with the ibfamous coca Cola cans?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Register Options Profile Last 1 | 3 | 7 Days Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First Project Completed! #106 - NL Canada cleyte MechMates already cutting 48 Tue 23 May 2017 21:42
Not a MechMate but it is cool sailfl Miscellaneous / General / Whatever / Catchall 10 Thu 06 May 2010 14:59
Free Software and other cool stuff seaboardironworks Graphics & CAD 0 Sun 25 April 2010 07:29
On to other Cool Projects #43 - Arad, Romania Claudiu MechMates already cutting 205 Wed 24 February 2010 23:07
Cool front panel joint WTI Miscellaneous / General / Whatever / Catchall 0 Sat 07 June 2008 15:53


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.