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  #31  
Old Thu 05 June 2008, 21:37
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
No sir, I ran the fence against the side with the angle. (might be some language difference). It really doesn't matter. What ever method works.

I'm tempted to just send you a SteelMax saw so you can experiment with it. I was skeptical at first, until my buddy demonstrated his. The finished cut is good, and it's not hot to the touch after cutting. That's a nice feature when cutting painted metal.
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  #32  
Old Thu 05 June 2008, 23:21
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
I am toying with the idea of importing some "Steelmax" blades to run on a modified "chopsaw". The correct speed will be observed. (If the Steelmax is so good, why isn't there a "chopsaw" version?).

Not interested in a complete Steelmax saw motor because it is not supported by a local service center. Steelmax may already be exporting to SA via some dealer, and I would first ask them about that.
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  #33  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 00:15
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Gerald

Welcome Back. We have the Evolution range available here in SA, contact Cape Tool Centre 0861 106 389 or 021 982 3546 (082 886 8856 Henk), they sell machines and blades. I have one of their 355mm cut off saw which works beautifully but the blades are pricey (just received one for about R1100.00). The user has to be careful as the tips are prone to break off if not used with care (vans!) you cant bang the blade down.

I have no doubt that the blades can be used on another saw, the speed and gearing must be correct though (about 1600 rpm). This will work fine on a belt driven chopsaw if the pulleys are changed, but using them on a skill saw type machine may be tricky to get the speed right. The Evolution machine has a built in gearbox to reduce speed and increase torque.
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  #34  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 01:10
dmoore
Just call me:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
I am toying with the idea of importing some "Steelmax" blades to run on a modified "chopsaw". The correct speed will be observed. (If the Steelmax is so good, why isn't there a "chopsaw" version?).
Funny you should ask....
http://www.steelmax.com/saws_s14.htm



Though I've had /excellent/ results with the Milwaukee (I have no idea if they are in SA) abrasive chopsaw for which there is a dry-cut saw of the same version, so I think I'd be tempted to go that route since it's hold down and base is better:

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-6190...2735951&sr=8-1
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  #35  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 02:00
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Looks like I should have said "cold saw" instead of "chopsaw" I am thinking of permanent floor mounted, three-phase powered, brushless, quiet running machine that can run all day. The production sawing of steel is very common, yet I have not yet seen carbide-tipped blades used in heavy production. Circular saws are used, but they don't have carbide tips. If the carbide tips are so great, why doesn't someone like http://www.haeberle.de/ offer such a version?

More references:

http://bandsawblade.com/circularsawblades.htm

http://www.metaldevil.com/index.html

http://www.steelmax.com/home.htm
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  #36  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 02:57
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The rated max speeds of the MetalDevil versus the SteelMax are vastly different.

What is the nameplate speed on the SteelMax machines you guys have used, and what is the diam. and marked speed of the blades? Their web page is very light on specs - only says 15 Amp. Their FAQ page says 1750Watt, 120V, 2700 rpm.

MetalDevil gives some specs on the saws: 9" model
• Arbor Size: 25.4mm (1 Inch)
• Amps: 15 Voltage not stated
• Watts: 1,800
• RPM: 2,500
• Blade Size: 9"
• Maximum Cutting Depth: 3.25"

Notice that around 2600 rpm for a 9" blade is much slower than for a grinder which will turn a 9" wheel at over 6000rpm. Do not be tempted to fit these blades to a grinder!
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  #37  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 05:32
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Here is a link to the Evolution site, they seem identical to the steelmax.

EVO355 RAPTOR 380mm TCT Steel Cut Off Saw

Motor (230v or 115v 50/60 Hz) (Watts) 2200
RPM No Load (min -1) 1450
Recommended Maximum Duty Cycle (Minutes) 30
Sound Pressure Level (Under Load) (dB(A)) 112.4
Weight (Kg) 23.0
Maximum Dimensions (mm) H 575 W 355 D 600
Maximum Box Cut Capacity 90° (6mm Wall)
Square (mm) 120 x 120
Rectangle (mm) 95 x 180
Round (mm) 130
Maximum Box Cut Capacity 45° (6mm Wall)
Square (mm) 89 x 89
Rectangle (mm) 78 x 110
Round (mm) 105

Blade Specifications
Maximum Diameter (mm) 355
Bore Diameter (mm) 25.4
Maximum Thickness (mm) 2
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  #38  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 05:48
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
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Nice tool, but not portable (hand model) like the SteelMax.
I know Triton also have a cutsaw of some sort for steel. Only for small sections

Here is a link to it:
http://www.triton.com.au/product.php?id=36

Last edited by Kobus_Joubert; Fri 06 June 2008 at 06:11..
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  #39  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 07:49
ekdenton
Just call me: Ed #8
 
Alamogordo, NM
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
If the carbide tips are so great, why doesn't someone like http://www.haeberle.de/ offer such a version?
The original idea of cutting steel with saws lik this is probably pretty old but
actual sales of these saws have only been mainstreem for maybe 4-5 years. I think my local welding shop supplier brought one out about 2002 and gave me a demonstration. Yes it cutt fast but what threw me was the cost of the blades. I think that is the main hold back (even if the blades have been proven to last long) for alot of people. They are waiting to see if it is just a passing fad that will end when users find out the cost of upkeep on the blades. I think the blades have been redesigned and are alot better now than when the saw first came out.

+ most people don't like change even if it is for the better.
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  #40  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 08:30
dmoore
Just call me:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan_c View Post
Here is a link to the Evolution site, they seem identical to the steelmax.
Thanks for posting this find - it does appear to be a very close copy of the SteelMax saw. For US people, they have an on-line ordering website here:

http://www.evolutiononlineshop.com/

The price for the "STEELSAW" with the 7" blade is 204.75 - or about $50 to $100 cheaper than the SteelMax sells for new on eBay.
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  #41  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 08:59
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Harbor Freight (HF) also sells a saw. When my SteelMax failed, I bought one as a backup, but the replacement parts for the SteelMax arrived before the HF saw did. I have not use the HF saw to date.
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  #42  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 09:32
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Okay, we have established that a couple of brands are on a very new market. At this stage of the game some brands will already have a better reputation than others. Who makes the better blades? Which ones should be avoided? I would hate to import a couple of blades to discover that I got the bad brand . . . .
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  #43  
Old Fri 06 June 2008, 20:56
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
I checked my steel cutting blades this evening. The original blades that came with the SteelMax are worn, so I can't see any writing.

The blades I bought locally, are evolution blades. As best as I can remember, (which doesn't count for much ), the quality is the same as the original OEM blades.
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  #44  
Old Sun 08 June 2008, 12:35
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Here in SA these saws have become very popular with the guys doing structural steel work (factory shells etc) that are replacing their fibre disk cut off saws and angle grinders - the main reason being speed and no loss of cutting depth as the blade is used. The cost of these blades are quite high but the structural guys have calculated the costs to be favourable, they stop using the fibre disk once it can no longer cut through an I beam or column.

I have found it to bery very convenient for my daily maintenance work in the factory - fast and clean, but I doubt I would use one for cutting steel sections all day long in a fabrication environment as the cost of blades may be too high. my father has a HSS blade machine as Gerald referenced above that would be better for this type of environment as long as you can find somebody to accurately sharpen the blades. The tungsten blades are NOT sharpenable, at least not here in CT. These HSS machines cut much slower but the resultant cut is clean not requiring any major deburring such as would be needed with the fibre disk machine.

So as usual its horses for courses, if you want a fast clean cutting machine and don't intend doing a large volume of cutting on an ongoing basis then one of the tungsten blade machine would be a good choice, if however you want a production oriented machine where the cost of consumables has to be factored into production costs and will be cutting small sections (pipe, angle and channel) then the HSS machine would be a better choice. If you just want to chop lengths of steel into handable sections and are not worried about cut quality and burrs then the fibre saw is the cheapest option.

Just my 2c worth...
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  #45  
Old Sun 08 June 2008, 13:08
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Have you tried Renlaw for sharpening the HSS saws? (They actually produce HSS saw blades locally - but are essentially a sharpening company)
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  #46  
Old Sun 08 June 2008, 15:37
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Yes my Dad uses Renlaw for his blades - nobody better in Cape Town, others have tried but are not consistent.
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  #47  
Old Sun 08 June 2008, 23:54
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
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Good place in Johannesburg for blades and sharpening is LEUCO Tools in Edenvale 011 455 6313
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  #48  
Old Mon 09 June 2008, 01:05
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Kobus

Be careful with Leuco and steel cutting blades, they are very good with woodwork tooling (on a par with Leitz and Austro) but they have been less than successful with steel blades.
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  #49  
Old Wed 18 June 2008, 23:33
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Took delivery of a 180mm [7"] Evolution saw yesterday. . . . . . let's see if it will rip the 60 meter [180 ft] of angle iron lying here. (for 5 large MechMates). Did get a spare blade. Local prices R3300 for machine with no blade, R330 per blade (excl.VAT). This is the baby size machine.
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  #50  
Old Thu 19 June 2008, 10:48
dmoore
Just call me:
 
Harbor Freight Tools Metal Cutting Circular Saw (United States)

I happen to see this in the circular from Harbor Freight Tools:



For some reason it is not listed on their web ordering system at harborfreight.com but it is listed as an in-store item here:

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/...temnumber=8897

It's currently listed as 74.99$ USD as of 19-Jun-08. It sure looks like it shares some of the SteelMax saw parts (look at the base, guide and the side handle). It does seem to lack the bevel cut option and the laser that the SteelMax has.

I'd be interested in feedback on anyone that has used one of these Harbor Freight saws.
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  #51  
Old Sun 22 June 2008, 03:11
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
A question for the experienced "RailRippers" . . . . .

How much blade did you have protruding from the baseplate of these circular saws? (theoretical "depth-of-cut") I am assuming it was somewhere around 25mm [1"]?
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  #52  
Old Sun 22 June 2008, 13:18
dmoore
Just call me:
 
I left as much of the blade below the base of the saw when I did my rails. My thinking was the same as when I cut wood with a circular saw - that the additional "width" would stabilize the cut.
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  #53  
Old Sun 22 June 2008, 20:46
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Havn't checked carefully yet, but at full depth the teeth might span more than 6mm [1/4"] as it approaches the steel. I think I should have 2 to 3 tips engaged and cutting . . . . . . ?
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  #54  
Old Mon 23 June 2008, 02:23
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
When in doubt, read the manual . . . .

"Ensure that the blade protrudes a max of 4mm [3/16"] through the material being cut."

However, I think that statement is from a safety perspective and not from tooth life considerations. The tool is used for cutting tubing with thinnish walls, and one cannot do anything about the "angle of attack" in those cases.
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  #55  
Old Mon 23 June 2008, 10:45
jeffh
Just call me: Jeff #21
 
Bellingham WA
United States of America
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Anxious to hear your review of the Evolution saw, Gerald.

I'm trying to decide which of these metal saws to buy.

The SteelMax has certain advantages (like changeable sole plate angle)
but the Evolution is a much cheaper option (unless I can find a steelmax on eBay...)

Let us know how she fares...
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  #56  
Old Mon 23 June 2008, 11:14
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
From a little bit of testing and reading, the rotation speed matches that of Skilsaws. If I had a Skilsaw, I would probably only have bought the blades. The only thing that is significantly different is the chip catcher for the Evolution. Maybe these things have heavier bearings to handle the fierce chatter? . . . . .

Our 180mm [7"] Evolution does have a changeable sole plate angle.
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  #57  
Old Mon 23 June 2008, 12:42
jeffh
Just call me: Jeff #21
 
Bellingham WA
United States of America
Send a message via Yahoo to jeffh
Ahhh Thanks Gerald,
I couldn't tell from the picture whether or not the Evolution sole
plate could be adjusted to cut a bevel. Thanks for that info.

For anyone else who's as crazy as myself, I've put together an
Excel spreadsheet to help make the decision or at least gather the data.
Might be useful to others... might not... feel free to toss in the bit bucket.


-Jeffh

Oops. Looks like spreadsheets aren't allowed. My bad.
Here's a PDF (should be safer anyways...)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MetalCuttingSaws.pdf (12.7 KB, 69 views)

Last edited by jeffh; Mon 23 June 2008 at 12:50.. Reason: Trying to add a PDF of the above mentioned file...
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  #58  
Old Tue 24 June 2008, 10:43
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
First test on short length of off-cut was not too encouraging - rail height varied by 0.6mm. Surface finish is "smooth" in the sense that it won't draw blood, but it has a rough texture (like leather?). Will be testing on a longer off-cut tomorrow. Thinking of a skate to "dress" that saw-cut surface before tackling the bevelling.

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  #59  
Old Tue 24 June 2008, 12:50
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Back in post #20 I found the same to be true on my tests here at the shop. Nice cut, but not machine tolerance as required by the MM.

" If using the steelmax, I would still require you to grind it smooth after cutting to maintain tolerance."

Thus, using the JR style grinder-on-a-shoe, I would dress the cut to the desired finished height.

Sean
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  #60  
Old Tue 24 June 2008, 16:09
jeffh
Just call me: Jeff #21
 
Bellingham WA
United States of America
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Thanks you guys! For both the feedback on the saw and the tip for finishing the rail height with the grinder-on-a-shoe.

So it sounds like the plan is:
1) Cut the rail to rough size with the saw // Only to save time or get another
tool in the shop. Wife'll love that...
2) Dress the rail to finished height with the grinder/shoe/trashcan setup.
3) Bevel the rail using the JR Skate assembly.

The saw really only saves time since I have to build the height shoe jig anyway. Hmmm....

This was the most daunting task to me so now I think I've got it dialed in.

Thanks again.
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