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  #31  
Old Wed 12 September 2007, 22:53
CAM Craft
Just call me: Sean D
 
Cape Town
South Africa
What do others say about Enrout3?

Can you compare it to ArtCAm and Vector?
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  #32  
Old Wed 12 September 2007, 23:42
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Hi Sean

Currently we dont use Enroute at work because our CNC's use their own system of generating code - we have to import the dxf directly into it. I have used Enroute when working on the Multicams and will be using it on the MechMate.

I have always worked first in DesignCAD then into Enroute because that is how I was taught - once the machine is up and running I may well change my method.
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  #33  
Old Sat 15 September 2007, 19:15
sharbold
Just call me: Sam
 
Joppa, Maryland
United States of America
Sean

99% of my work is 2.5D and for that I have been using DesignCad 17 and Vector. I have found DesignCad easy to learn and for laying out parts on a sheet very easy to copy, rotate, drag and drop parts onto my sheet. Once I have the parts drawn and place on my sheet I then export a dxf file which I then open in Vector. Once in Vector I select my starting point and cutting secquence. Next I offset to compensate for my cutter then set my cut depth and depth per pass. Once this is done I generate my code. At the present time I am exporting Shopbot code but I am in the process of building a new controller and once finished will be using Mach software. Just to get the feel for the Mach software when I do a file I will generate both the Shopbot code as well as the G-code for Mach. I will then just run the file in Mach and so far the G-code generated from Vector seem to work just fine in Mach.

In one of your earlier posts you stated you draw your offset tool path in your cad program and just use Vector to connect Z and write the code. Any reason you don't use Vector to automatically generate your offsets and cutting depth?

Sam
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  #34  
Old Sun 16 September 2007, 23:01
CAM Craft
Just call me: Sean D
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Hi

DesignCAD seems to be a preferred software package with a couple of guys. Can you draw tool paths (offset of true profile) and set their depth with it?

Why I want to do my own tool paths, is because I have a reference on what cutter I used if there is a repeat job, if the cutter breaks I can get a xy point and reset machine plus restart very close to where the problem was. Then 6 years ago I couldn’t figure out Vector.

Some people like to use sheetcam now instead of Vector
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  #35  
Old Sun 16 September 2007, 23:48
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM Craft View Post
. . . Why I want to do my own tool paths, is because I have a reference on what cutter I used if there is a repeat job,. . . . . .
In other words, to save the whole job in one file in one place. (Sean doesn't really bother to save the G-code or SB-code files because those files are very quickly created by Vector.). All the stuff worth saving is then in the CAD file (dxf/dwg/etc.) and that is where one has to start when a client comes back 2 years later and wants a repeat order with some revisions.
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  #36  
Old Mon 17 September 2007, 17:09
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Gerald and Sean,
If saving the work files in one place is really all you require ( unless I am missing something) why not just archive ALL the files you used including the gcode, source files, quote files, notes, picture of the finished product and anything else you want. These could be organized in a directory structure, archive file (such as .rar or .zip) and then stored on magnetic or optical media for later retrieval.
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  #37  
Old Mon 17 September 2007, 23:18
CAM Craft
Just call me: Sean D
 
Cape Town
South Africa
i do save all the code. but that changes often. best to keep a working visual
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  #38  
Old Tue 18 September 2007, 01:21
CAM Craft
Just call me: Sean D
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Could the DesignCAD users please send me a dwg or dxf drawing with the following:

Spline, polyline, circle and a explode spline and polyline.

I want to see what happens when I bring it into AutoCAD and Vector. Normally with Turbocad and sketchup the exploded arcs, polylines and splines turn into straight lines rather than smooth flowing curves when opening them in AutoCAD.

Then can I still set a height to an offset tool path with designCAD?
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  #39  
Old Sat 01 December 2007, 05:31
ger21
Just call me: Ger
 
Detroit, MI
United States of America
Sean, if you can still get it, try out the free ProgeCAD. virtually an AutoCAD clone (2D only though), and should do what you need.

DesignCAD has always been a great CAD value, but I haven't used it in years (since switching to AutoCAD), so can't tell you for sure if it will do what you need. I'd download the demo and try it if you haven't already.
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  #40  
Old Sat 01 December 2007, 14:10
Marc Shlaes
Just call me: Marc
 
Cleveland, OH
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to Marc Shlaes
Ger21,

There is only one thing that bothers me with your post. And... I'll admit that it may be just be me... but here goes.

[Lot of "ifs" coming]

If ProgeCAD, free version, isn't going to be around ("if you can still get it"), I personally wouldn't even begin to try to learn it -- unless one was already an AutoCAD master -- and it truly was a clone down to the tiny details of the User Interface.

Having been in the software world most of my career, most of the cost of a piece of software is the effort you expend to learn it and to unlearn it when it is time, for whatever reason, to switch to something else.

Therefore, to me anyway, free isn't really free. I would rather stick with a solution that I believed would be around.

Again, only my opinion.
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  #41  
Old Sat 01 December 2007, 19:07
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Sean D and Folks.
In response to "Normally with Turbocad and sketchup the exploded arcs, polylines and splines turn into straight lines rather than smooth flowing curves when opening them in AutoCAD."

What you are experiencing is 3d data being translated to 2d data - and not well. In an effort to keep this post simple, I will try to offer up my experience with getting 3d stuff to usable 2d stuff.

AutoCad will create 3D shapes and volumetric solids well - if based on a know curve/vector data and not a spline data. Spline will be addressed later. The best way to get a "slice" of that 3D shape out intact is to "snap shot" the slice into a new 2d plane, and convert it to a closed polyline. (essentially, taking sections of the shapes you want to cut out. As long as the slice is a CLOSED polyline, it will stay true to drawing. - sometime tracing the slice as a new native polyline is easier, quicker and smarter than trying to get the original content to work. - Then, copyclip that into a new DWG file with that shape alone and export as the file as a dxf to get into LazyCAM.

A spline is a variable curved line that the NODE of the curve holds the data and not the arc itself. First, you must draw that spline in a 2d plane and then get that 2d shape into one of the native x/y UCS planes that autoCAD defaults to. If you don't, that spline will turn up in all sorts of strange places in the 3d world. If your lost, get really familiar with the ALIGN command in AutoCAD.

2nd, when you explode a spline it either doesn't explode or it turns into little lines segments based on the default setting in the control panel of AutoCAD. IF the shape your cutting is large enough, you can change the segment length from a preset (i think is 16 segments per line upto 128 segments per line) add enough segments and that straight cutting almost eliminates itself. Ellipse's are neither a spline nor an arc in autocad. They are an entity. They will NEVER explode and don't like to be exported. The best option for an ellipse is to draw it in another program that holds the EPS type vector data and exports it well... I use Adobe Illustrator or CorelDraw! to get ellipses to the router table and works really well.

The really great way to get 3d drawings and models to the table and hold all the native data is to really use a good translation program as your 3rd party go between. The great high end choices area Rhino and 3dstudioMAX as your final exporter. These 2 programs have direct translation from AutoCAD and handle NURB based geometry as their native modeling environment. The easy thing to know is that NURB based (rhino, 3dmax) geometry handles curves and 3D space far better than a Vector based (autocad, turbocad, vectorworks) geometry program.

It all comes down to how complex your model is, but if you making smooth 3d carvings, then you will definitely need a nurb geometry program. There are many programs, including artCarve and others that are affordable.....

Like Marc referred to earlier, spend the money and learn a good program that will be around. I have been using AutoCAD since 1987 and interface has not changed much in those 20 years - plus, upgrades are always cheaper than a new program license. I am actually looking at purchasing a license of Rhino or Enroute3D for just this reason to get my models to the table with the geometry intact. I'll keep you posted on my findings.

Sean
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  #42  
Old Sun 02 December 2007, 01:04
buddyboy
Just call me: buddy
 
us
United Kingdom
Rhino

Sean,

I would highly recommend you trying Rhino.
(A) Rhino was developed by Mcneel Associates who originated by creating plugins for AutoCad. Consquently, Rhino is very closely related to Autocad and you should pickup in no time if you know Autocad (I used AC prior to Rhino). In fact I beleive that after Rhino 4 was recently released, AC realized that Rhino was a direct competitor (and not just a helper application) and they dropped mcneel from their developer program.
(B) Rhino has several CAM plugins to chose from (I use RhinoCam from Mecsoft).
This program is very good, and for doing 2D work, you would only require RhinoCam Basic (as opposed to RhinoCam Pro) which is priced very reasonably.

Basically the workflow is.
(1) Draw objects in 2D that you would like to cut
(2) Select the objects
(3) Select a MOP (machine strategy) In most cases you would be looking for a "Profile".
(4) Configure the MOP (i.e. selecte a bit, Depth of each pass, ramp in, ramp out, etc)
(5) Generate and Simulate (simulation is done in 3D on screen showing the bit and actual material being removed, etc).
The you can export the GCODE file when you are happy.
You never have to leave Rhino.

If you purchase RhinoCam Basic from Mecsoft, you will get Rhino 4.0 at a discount. All of the above are available for 30 day free trials.

BR.
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  #43  
Old Sun 02 December 2007, 21:27
CAM Craft
Just call me: Sean D
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Thanks guys. Lots to try out and think about
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  #44  
Old Mon 03 December 2007, 14:31
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Quick consolidated reply to all the previous qoutes.
- I know 3d...I almost work exclusively in 3d modeling space whether in Inventor, solidworks, AutoCAD or Rhino. My challenge has been getting those 3d models out as a 2d "splined or nurbed" entity without facets. Enroute 3d and Rhino have been the only programs I have used to do this well. I don't own a licensed copy of either and I plan on buying one of them.

Sean - Rhino supports 3d...AutoCAD LT does not....Get 3d capable software. You won't be sorry you learned. Enroute3 has A LOT of great CNC output options. A truly amazing tool bit and path interface that makes sending files to the table a breeze.

....back to wiring that darn kitchen project.
Sean
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  #45  
Old Mon 03 December 2007, 23:22
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Sean_R, have you had a look at Vectric's products? I am personally not up to speed on all these issues, but the reports on Vectric are excellent. I actually met Brian & Tony in England 2 years' ago and realised these were guys to be watched. They have developed some very useful (and user-friendly) software recently.

(PS. AutoCAD LT does a 3D toolpath quite happily - it doesn't do solids, renders, extrusions, etc, but can handle "wireframes" in 3D space)
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  #46  
Old Tue 04 December 2007, 05:58
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Gerald,
Yes, I have been quietly watching the Vectric software...mostly on the Shopbot forums for feedback. They are in the consideration. I apologize on the the misquote on AutoCAD LT.....I usually only deal with Extrusions and Solids, thus forgot it does to 3d toolpath and "faces". I've working in solids for so long I "forgot" there are still other ways of doing 3d!
Of course, everything I have been doing here in the shop hasn't stopped me from producing good parts. I am just looking for an "easier" way that won't require ME at the computer generating a file for the table.

Older Dog...hard to remember & learn new tricks.

Sean R
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  #47  
Old Tue 04 December 2007, 08:25
buddyboy
Just call me: buddy
 
us
United Kingdom
Gerald,

I downloaded all the Vectric products and they are very, very, good at the CAM functions, however I really do not like the CAD Interface (which are very important to me). It is hard to explain, however when you have lived inside a CAD modeling system like AutoCad or Rhino for such a long time, when you go over to a more widget based interface like Vectric (or Artcam or Illustrator for that matter), it seems just a bit off. I just feel like I am constantly moving bits around and stretching things and that everything gets all jumbled up, however most of this is probably related to lack of practice. But in my mind, there is a clear different feel to AutoCad and Rhino, I think it is the same feeling of the difference between Windows and Linux, if that makes any sense. While one seems more easy to use on the surface, in the end, I look for power and consistency. I can say with confidence that if you like AutoCad, you will Love Rhino, it is pretty much the same interface except costs less, does some more (i.e. Rhino 4.0 3D features vs Autocad LT) and you would have very little learning curve, plus benefit of having abilty to plug CAM right into the system through a third party plugin.
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  #48  
Old Mon 21 July 2008, 13:00
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by smreish View Post
I am actually looking at purchasing a license of Rhino or Enroute3D for just this reason to get my models to the table with the geometry intact. I'll keep you posted on my findings.

Sean
Sean (smreish),

I'm thinking of buying a new cad program because my AutoCAD 2000 is not working right in Vista. I'm looking at Rhino 4.0 and now after reading these posts, Enroute3D.

Did you ever make a decision on Rhino or Enroute? Any recommendations?
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  #49  
Old Mon 21 July 2008, 13:22
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
I'm glad you asked.
I found that I was able to use my current license of AutoCad for the 3d part and then export to Vectric Cut3d. Actually, I have recently issued a purchase order for the entire suite of products...$$$. It should arrive next week. I will keep you posted.
I have used Rhino in the past it's really very easy to use as well. Additionally, Rhino does have some nice export features that AutoDesk products don't.
Good luck
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  #50  
Old Mon 21 July 2008, 13:36
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Thanks Sean.

Think I'll ask the boss to cut me a P.O. tonight. I want to purchase Rhino 4.0 and Rhinoart.
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  #51  
Old Tue 22 July 2008, 15:30
normand blais
Just call me: Normand
 
montreal
Canada
Hi
This is the link to all of rhino ressource from boat building to jewel, shoes, bikes .... Some are free some not. http://www.rhino3d.com/resources/def...o=&language=en
It might tip the scale toward rhino.
Normand
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  #52  
Old Wed 23 July 2008, 04:11
normand blais
Just call me: Normand
 
montreal
Canada
free on line nester http://www.rhino3d.e-cnc.com/
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  #53  
Old Wed 23 July 2008, 06:05
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Purchased Rhino 4.0 and Rhinoart last night.
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  #54  
Old Fri 22 August 2008, 07:36
orotemo
Just call me: orotemo
 
Warburg
Israel
Well Greg, been a month since you have purchased the rhino+rhinoart, how is it going? is it simple and time saving to use this combo? what tasks don't you do with these two?

I'm also after some piece of software that will make the cad/cam be in tune, and at a reasonable price too.

Thanks!
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  #55  
Old Sat 23 August 2008, 06:40
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Orotemo,

It took about 1-1/2 weeks for the CD to arrive, so I've only been working with Rhino and RhinoArt for 2-1/2 weeks, in my spare time.

My background is with AutoCAD 2000, so I wasn't learning drafting/modeling and the other basic concepts. Just the programs.

Rhino 4.0 has two learning manuals (level 1 and level 2). Level 1 is the basic lines, curves, layout and general drafting. I got bored about 1/2 thru and jumped to the level 2 manual. I'm about 1/3 of the way on the level 2 manual.

My quick impression of Rhino 4.0 is very good. It's an intuitive and fun program to learn and use. Will do everything and more, than AutoCAD 2000. I don't think my learning with Rhino would be any different than converting from AutoCAD 2000 to AutoCAD 2008 (whatever the latest version is).

RhinoArt is a different story. A very easy program to use and seems to have the functions I'm looking for, but it crashes allot. Simple raster images (black and white, line drawings) convert over to a vector format nicely. Complicated multi colored jpg photos crash my system. Probably just a lack of memory issue on my computer.

Overall, the learning curve is well worth the price/cost differential to convert from AutoCAD to Rhino.

Legal crap: I don't work for Rhino or any software development company. The intension was to give my impressions/recommendations of a CAD program. A good CAD program (it doesn't have to be Rhino) will make better end products for anyones CNC router.
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  #56  
Old Sun 24 August 2008, 12:07
normand blais
Just call me: Normand
 
montreal
Canada
If someone plan to buy rhino or the other cam add on bundle ,these guys are cheaper than mecsoft or rhino.
http://www.computersculpture.com/Pag...ool_Paths.html
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  #57  
Old Thu 04 September 2008, 14:14
stcnc
Just call me: Bob
 
Spokane,WA
United States of America
Low cost 2D DXF2Gcode Conversion programs and CNC projects..
http://www.cad2gcode.com/
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  #58  
Old Thu 20 November 2008, 05:34
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Rhino 4.0 Learning Curve

I thought I should add a comment about the learning curve with Rhino 4.0.

I have had no problem learning Rhino and my opinion is there is a short learning curve. The tutorials and help menus are very good. I'm sure there is a Rhino forum somewhere, but I never needed it.

I've watched another individual who was very good with 2D (I forget the CAD software) take less than a month to master 3D. The 3D model that I saw was of a boat hull. If you can model a boat hull, you can model anything.

Maybe that individual (hint, hint, Marc) could give his thoughts.
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  #59  
Old Thu 20 November 2008, 23:49
Marc Shlaes
Just call me: Marc
 
Cleveland, OH
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to Marc Shlaes
Well "master" 3D might be just a bit of a stretch. I was a pretty good 2D user of TurboCAD and I was asked to create some models for boat hulls as Greg mentioned. That just might be a bit of an ambitious goal for someone new to 3D but I did it. Of the 10,000 functions that Rhino can do, I probably know 50. But, as stated, those 50 got the job done.

To really work your machine, you have to be able to effectively model your designs. I wholeheartedly can recommend Rhino for this purpose. Jump in you and you will be rewarded with more design capability than you thought possible.

I am happy to answer specific questions. Ask away!
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  #60  
Old Wed 24 December 2008, 10:17
jeady
Just call me: Jason
 
Detroit, MI
United States of America
Hi all,

I have been using Rhino since Rhino was version 1.0. I noticed that Rhino is more for items like Boat hulls and such than any other program in it's price range. I also find it quite easy to model a boat compared to most other software as the loft command is much better than some other programs (Autodesk software). I plan on using it with Aspire software for my CAM applications. You can probably tell I use my CNC to make model boats. I was contacted by an Aspire sales rep last week. He informed me that they have a cam plug-in for Rhino. After I researched this so called "plug-in" I noticed they partnered with the people that wrote RhinoCAM and the plug-in is the same one. The only reason I mention all this is because I can get student pricing on such items and it makes all the difference for me to use these than any of the other programs such as Vectric products which I highly recommend.
The guys at Vectric are great and their products are top notch if not a little tough to get used to.

I am not affiliated with any program or groups and use my equipment for my own enjoyment. I have a lack of ability with normal tools and can program computers to do it all for me so why not have some fun.
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