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  #1  
Old Sun 14 December 2008, 07:24
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Sold to a new home!! #46 - Netherlands

Hey All,

yesterday I spoke to my father in law about building a MM over here and he is very exited to make something like that here in Ecuador. He is a very good metal worker and have been making machines in general for the last 40 years.

Also, You don't see to many CNC machine over here so it might be good business, although we currently we make it for our own fun and help us with some of the woodworking we are doing. He will make the mechanical parts and I do all the electronics + computer work.

We are basically at zero, decided to start but nothing else we need to decide yet the size of the machine suitable for the current woodworking we are doing, we make mostly tables, desks, chairs etc.. I can imagine the bigger the size, the bigger the motors so we want to make a tradeoff here, reasonable sized table so we can use reasonable sized motors and stepper drivers.

My wife needs to translate the plans from english to spanish so he has a better understanding how it needs to be constructed, if anybody is interested let me know so I can re-post them again in spanish.

I don't think we will hit any roadblocks except the usual items other people have because most material can be found here in Ecuador, if not my father in law can make it, he is the kinda guy that makes a race car for fun including his own gearbox if he has to. (picture : http://www.racerchicks.com/racers/morales.html) the lady is my wife now... he made the car).

The only thing would be the stepper motors and drivers and some other special items not easely found in Ecuador or ridiculous expensive but will order that overseas.

Anyways,
I will come here more often once we get started and have questions..

thanks for the great work you have all been put in the MM over the years
Ries
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  #2  
Old Sun 14 December 2008, 07:48
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Welcome, rvt (or Ries?)!

I think you will find that the size of the machine does not influence the size of motors. There are existing machines in the 2500mm x 6000mm range.

The machine sizing is usually based on the size of the stock materials in your area and how much room you have to place the machine.

Here in the U.S., sheet goods come in 4 foot by 8 foot sheets (48" x 96", or slightly larger (49" x 97") in some cases. A MechMate that can cut a full sheet takes up about a 6 foot by 10 foot (72" x 120") floor area. You need an additional area on one or two sides of the machine to walk around in.

I think the maximum metric sheet sizes are 1500mm x 3000mm, although the 1220mm x 2440mm (US size) is apparently common, as is 1250mm x 2500mm. What size does Ecuador use?
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  #3  
Old Sun 14 December 2008, 07:54
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Welcome Ries!

Surely with that name, you must have Dutch heritage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by riesvantwisk View Post
.. I can imagine the bigger the size, the bigger the motors so we want to make a tradeoff here, reasonable sized table so we can use reasonable sized motors and stepper drivers.
That is not true - the motors stay the same size for big or small tables. (You do not need a bigger engine to drive a longer distance). You only need longer cables/wires, and longer gear racks.
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  #4  
Old Sun 14 December 2008, 10:37
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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@all,

name is Ries here.... My father in law's name is Jairo...

yes indeed... I am, dutch an moved to Ecuador 5 years ago. I am actually a software programmer with a electronic background (looong time ago for teh electronics part).
I have made like 15 years a go a little roll pen plotter usomg steppers... very small project but fun....
When reading this forum some of the issues are known and similar, specially the vibration parts back then it was driven from DOS sending signals over the parallel port using the serial IO (com1) as a high resolution timer.

@Gerard I could imagine that if the Y get's bigger, it also means more mass to move over X (need to read what is X and Y here...), but it's indeed good to know so we can consider a full size machine. From the top of my head sheets go for 1220mm x 2440mm in Ecuador. Here they tend to follow US sizes, except we use mostly metric rather then inches/foot and soem technology is 10 years behind europe/US. I couldn't find a ring transformation anywhere for my amplifier!!!

anyways,
Will keep in tuch... hopefully next year Jan we can start building.

Ries
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  #5  
Old Tue 16 December 2008, 14:43
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Motos + Stepper?

hey All,

I am not sure if this is the right part of the forum, if not let me know... I don't use to many forums in my daily work.

However I investigated in motors and from this forum I find it hard to come to a conclusion, but this I had in mind:

Breakout board: PMXD-122
Controller for the motors : G203V
Motor : RS34-600 (Nema 34 types)

I think the above would give me a good price/quality ratio if ordered from http://www.homeshopcnc.com/ and also for me in Ecuador I can get a lot in one package, customs can drive you crazy here in Ecuador.

Notes:

1) I would love to order the G201 Gecko controllers (saves me $30 each) , but looking at the G203V feature set when it comes to short circuit protection I think it's a saver bet, for me in Ecuador I simply cannot order them quickly in case something is wrong and last but not least, most people seems to use the G203V's

2) From reading at the posts it looks like that 600oz/in is a motors that could drive the MM directly without a belt reduction, although I am not sure.

I could also get the Nema 23 570 oz/in which is a lot cheaper, any thoughts? According tho this thread not a bad idea.. http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...5&postcount=10

Ries
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  #6  
Old Tue 16 December 2008, 20:54
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Ries, I think the RS34-600 motor is okay if you will have belt or gearbox reduction, but it will be too light for direct drive. The RS34-900 will be okay for direct and will be excellent for belt/gear reduction.

Nobody has yet used Nema 23 on this big table.
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  #7  
Old Wed 17 December 2008, 09:56
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Gerald,

thanks for the answer, reading this post :http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255 I was under the impression I should stay below 800oz/in and the first stepper in line was the #RS34-600.

I did read from Kobus that he was using the Motionking 34hs 9801 types, I send him a message how they where doing right now, but from his posts from june this year he created some awesome with these motors, and direct driven I believe, I also asked Motionking for a pro-form invoice to see what it cost to send them to Ecuador.

thanks, have a nice day!
Ries
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  #8  
Old Wed 17 December 2008, 10:20
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
When you wire a RS34-900 in half-coil (unipolar), it is less than 800 oz/in.

Believe it or not, the first thing I look at is the mass of the motor. We need about 3kg [6 lb] for a direct drive motor, which is a double-stack, Nema 34, housing/casing length about 95mm.

Triple stack Nema 34 are getting too big and rough.
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  #9  
Old Wed 17 December 2008, 11:01
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
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Hi Ries I am still happy with my cheap Chinese steppers. No gears nothing and at the moment I have no intention to gear them
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  #10  
Old Thu 18 December 2008, 05:19
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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all,

This morning I got a mail from MotionKing

34HS9801, $50.00/pcs, 5pcs ---------- $250.00
China Post Parcel ---------------------- $174.00
SUM ------------------------------------- $424.00

Since Kobus does have good experience with it, I will order these aswell.

We also checked for a CNC laser cutter, and they only seems to have plasma cutters here, I would need to check again to be sure... If we cut it plasma, are there then any concerns? (I am not a metal worker....Jairo is but doesn't have a lot of experience with Laser vs plasma systems...)

Ries
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  #11  
Old Thu 18 December 2008, 07:07
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Alternatives to Laser Cutting - Waterjet, Plasma, Oxy-fuel?
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  #12  
Old Fri 19 December 2008, 11:28
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
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Ries you are lucky, my postage to South Africa was more than the 4 steppers.
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  #13  
Old Fri 19 December 2008, 18:25
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Lucky me!!

We found a laser cutter and it is rather close to the workshop. I have prepared all material, just need to buy ink-cardridge for my printer so I can print photo's of the parts to cut/bend and give them to the company aswell so they have a better idea what needs to happen.

Ries
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  #14  
Old Fri 19 December 2008, 20:09
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Ries, that sounds like a new, inexperienced company. Typical mistakes with cutting are to omit holes or select the wrong thickness material.

The bending is where most mistakes happen . . .
- bend in the wrong direction is the most common mistake
- bend in the wrong place, if they don't have lines
- bend to the wrong angle
- bend with a radius that is too big (using a V-block that is too wide)
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  #15  
Old Fri 19 December 2008, 20:39
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Gerald,

I am not sure how un-experienced they are yet, but for sure I will find that out once I get my material back, there is just one way to find out really
And it's for that reason that I am preparing everything to the best I can including a print-out of the photo's of various parts so the one who is going to do the job will have a better understanding what I want, how it should look like as an end product.

I was today studying the first two PDF files and I am truly amazed into what detail you put this together, me as a non metal working can understand very well what's happening and why, great job, it's a masterpiece!

Ries
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  #16  
Old Sat 20 December 2008, 07:31
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
My bender has the most trouble with the spider plate. First batch of parts I had to get him to retweak some of the bends to get the part as flat as I wanted it. The second batch he got spot on the first time. Most of the other bends are not too bad. For the Y car I give him the other parts that fit into it and he bends everything to fit nice.
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  #17  
Old Mon 26 January 2009, 16:11
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Some metal work done!!

hey All,

Here a quick update.

Got my BoB board a couple of weeks ago and received 5 gecko V203 in at 200 USD each including transportation, my walled complained a bit about that!!
But well, what I hear is that they are the best and I don't want a project to fail on the drivers. I am still waiting for my 5 motors and hoping that China Postal will arrive soon so I can spend a other 3-4 hours just to pick them up from the postal office (they are not that efficient here in Ecuador, bank is at the other side of town to pay the taxes).

Anyways, here is a photo of the metal work that has been done.

We are currently planning to build it in 4 parts.

1) top gantry
2) left side of the table
3) Right side of the table
4) Table itself.

So far we could find most of the material, except the y-beam and we replaced it for the rectangular 3mm structure rather then the U structure (10 10 302D) The one structure we could find was extremely heavy and expensive.
I hope we are fine with that...

Ries
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tmpphoto.jpg (109.4 KB, 2833 views)
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  #18  
Old Mon 26 January 2009, 22:09
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
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Put those wheels on the table and you can pull it to the next job. Nice going.
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  #19  
Old Thu 19 February 2009, 18:13
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Still going strong here and all the legs are on (no photo yet) We do have some problems finding good materials, unfortunately. We had to use bended steal instead of 'gegoten' (not sure what gegoten is in English) steal. Our current roadblock is vinding the Racks. We asked them to make it here in Ecuador and guess what.... "Sir for the requirement we can offer it to you at a remarkable good price of $3000USD".... My reaction was gulb......

From Vladimir I got some address which I am still tracing, at least at the address here in Quito they didn't had it... going to call Guagaile and see what they say... If not I think I need to order it from the USA or Brazile.

My 5 motors where received in good health from Motionking...

I need to keep looking to find the racks for a better price

What would be a reasonable price per meter in USD???

Ries
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  #20  
Old Thu 19 February 2009, 20:10
YRD
Just call me: Yuri #17
 
Brasilia - DF
Brazil
Ries,

Here in Brasil
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  #21  
Old Thu 19 February 2009, 21:46
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
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I think Gegoten is CAST ...but I can't imagine it is cast iron...maybe cast steel if there is something like that....shows how much I know of steel.
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  #22  
Old Thu 19 February 2009, 22:25
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
I think that Ries is using beams made from bent plate, instead of hot-rolled channel sections.

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  #23  
Old Sat 21 February 2009, 06:04
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Gerald,

yes indeed.. I have teh bended once for the large X beams. Not cated.. Sorry I am not a metal guy and don't know the right therms.

@Yru: We talked to the company here in Quito and they didn't had them, and we need to talk to the office in Guayaquil still.

It's strange to know that simple things are sometimes so hard to find...

Ries
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  #24  
Old Sat 21 February 2009, 07:04
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Ries, you will be very impressed to see how they make those "gegoten" beams. Actually, they are not gegoten . . . . they take a lump of hot steel and then force it between a set of special rollers to give the right shape:


. . . . there you can see a I - section coming out of the rollers (the rollers are sprayed with water). That is why it is called "hot rolled" steel.
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  #25  
Old Wed 25 March 2009, 08:29
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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After a looong search here in Ecuador I decided to buy them in Brazil or USA. Here in Ecuador apparently it is VERY good business to create these racks.

My highest price for the racks where $5000 USD (yes USD DOLLARS!!!) and my lowest was $1500USD. I cannot believe that they don't import them here.

Anyways this was quite a bummer for me to hear how hard it is to buy these...

Ries
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  #26  
Old Mon 30 March 2009, 16:36
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riesvantwisk View Post
After a looong search here in Ecuador I decided to buy them in Brazil or USA. Here in Ecuador apparently it is VERY good business to create these racks.
One single response by mail yet, I think I would need to call them up. Only deitech from HongKong responded..

I have one light at the horizon, we found a company that seems to have the machines to make the racks. At 50USD per meter... hurraaayy!!!

Will keep you guys updated.. No pictures..

Ries
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  #27  
Old Mon 30 March 2009, 20:42
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Is there perhaps a kind MechMater in the USA who can do a shipment to Ries? I suggest that you limit the racks to 36 inch lengths to make packaging and transport simpler - joining racks is easy.

Quito, Ecuador is a fascinating location, on the equator, at nearly 10 000 ft above sea level, in a valley formed by active volcanoes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quito
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  #28  
Old Tue 31 March 2009, 16:43
ria@mooregear.com
Just call me: Ria
 
Hermann (MO)
United States of America
Ries,

I think Moore Gear & Mfg in the US can help you with gear racks for your table. We have 4 foot long gear racks in stock, which would be easier to package and ship internationally, as Gerald suggested. I don't know what pitch you would need but our stock racks range from 3DP to 20DP, so I'm sure we'll have a size that would work best for your table. We can also mill and match the ends for joining the racks, or you can do it yourself if you prefer.

We have a downloadable .pdf file of our stock racks at http://www.mooregear.com/gearracks.html. Please email me at ria@mooregear.com if you would like more info.

Ria
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  #29  
Old Sat 25 April 2009, 15:55
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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hey All,

For some reason I didn't get and mails about forum posts in this thread, But I do thank you for the support. In the end I found a supplier in Hong Kong Dietech, control and spoke to Harry who has helped me greatly.
The price was good aswell and they are on it's way by DHL, if I remember correctly the package price was 365 total including DHL. For that I got 10meters of racks and 6 gears.

That was so much cheaper then that I got offered here that I couldn't resist

@Ria, for sure I would have contacted you if I just got the mail from mechmate.com but the forum didn't send it to me so I didn't knew....

So with a little luck I can finally continue working somewhere between now and two weeks.

Ries
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  #30  
Old Sat 25 April 2009, 22:38
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
Ries - Dietec is a very good supplier - 365 for the whole rack and pinion package was great.

harry particulary though based out of Europe - help's us a lot.

we have vishnu running the spindle and steppers they supplied. it seems good, I will also run my spindle soon.

my best to you in your build. Have fun

RGDS
IRfan
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