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  #481  
Old Wed 26 September 2012, 23:29
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Alan, thanks for the heads up.
As with your 3kW spindle expectation, you can be certain that 1)you will not hear spindle slowing down during feeding/cutting as often, 2)you can feed faster & deeper. 3) less noise goes without too much emphasis.
But att that comes with a price, the tool bit will blunt out faster...
One tip on the spindle, watch the amperage indicator on your VFD, its the indication of 1) your bit sharpness or lake of it 2) over or under feeding . I usually run my 3kW at 30% for continuous operation, so that it can handle sudden spike load.... how the spike load came about is a mystery, but they show up every now & then.
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  #482  
Old Thu 27 September 2012, 01:17
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Robert!, nice to see you still around. These chairs are for a school along with tables and other furniture. Please note these are kiddie size - seat height is 300mm off the floor. Lots of kids = lots of chairs

Thanks for the amp tip Ken - I want to mount the remote operator for the VFD on my control/computer cabinet so its at eye level and easier to monitor.
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  #483  
Old Thu 27 September 2012, 11:17
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Thanks for the complement Alan…..and kind reply
would not want to leave such a nice bunch of guys…..and lots of fine CNC info !
I should slowly get back at it as I’m getting slowly more settle in my new place !
Later guys, Robert
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  #484  
Old Wed 03 October 2012, 09:20
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Talking Spindle has arrived

The spindle has arrived, well packaged and no visible sign of damage. The collets as advertised were included. Impressed with the packaging but a bit dissapointing that no collet spanners supplied. There is no motor plate or any means of identification so I will just have to trust that it is indeed a 3kw unit.

outer box.jpg

box open.jpg

inner package.jpg

inner packing.jpg

spindle and collets.jpg
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  #485  
Old Wed 03 October 2012, 10:00
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Alan,

I bought a spindle and they did not included the wrenches.
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  #486  
Old Wed 03 October 2012, 17:12
AuS MaDDoG
Just call me: Tony #71
 
Brisbane
Australia
Nice spindle !! gonna be happy with that.

Cheers
Tony
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  #487  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 09:37
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
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And ?? How is it performing
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  #488  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 11:41
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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dont know yet, two of the inverters I have only go up to 120Hz (very specialised fan controllers) and the other one is not working. The Yaskawa E7 inverters are valued at R12500.00, so want to try sell them (going to advertise for R6000.00) and buy a Yaskawa V1000 - rated for 3,7Kw off 220v single phase, the only unit I have come across that can do more than 2.2Kw.
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  #489  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 12:30
Cois
Just call me: Cois #63
 
Pretoria
South Africa
Allen, what did you pay, what was the shipping costs?
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  #490  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 13:44
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Spindle was $389 plus $77. The E-bay store advertises free international shipping but they charge extra to ship to SA. I managed to get away with $35 extra for the shipping so my Total was about R3600 landed at my door.
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  #491  
Old Fri 22 March 2013, 01:52
viz
Just call me: viz
 
Kaunas
Lithuania
Are you happy with your spindle ? Still working ?
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  #492  
Old Fri 22 March 2013, 17:57
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
That is a nice looking spindle. My water cooled spindle did not have collet wrenches either. You would not think that would be a big thing to include. I am sure it will do great for you.
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  #493  
Old Sat 08 June 2013, 03:07
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Sorry for not replying, spindle is not installed yet BUT I do now have the correct inverter to control it, just busy prepping the enclosure to do the install.

I need some input from the set guys (Sean etc... ) I have been asked by a local primary school to come up with a design for an on stage tree, the brief is for a bare tree trunk with branches to which they can add different coloured leaves to indicate different seasons. They are not looking for a complicated 3d creation, we were just thinking of a 2D profile cut from 18mm (3/4") pine ply. mounting will either be in a weighted bucket or maybe a slot with a cross piece to hold it upright and safe. The leaves will probably be made from fabric or maybe shapes cut from masonite and then painted - attached with velcro. If anybody has any pics or ref sites I can look at would be greatly appreciated (not had much luck with google so far)
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  #494  
Old Sat 08 June 2013, 03:33
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Guess you already looked at https://www.google.co.za/search?q=cn...w=1462&bih=953 ?
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  #495  
Old Sat 08 June 2013, 03:43
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
Alan I sent you a link to some dxf of mine on PM. You can use if it suits you
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  #496  
Old Sat 08 June 2013, 09:52
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
A 2 piece tree similar to this would be the easiest for a free standing tree. I found it in the link Gerald posted. Nothing more than a slide together design. You could then have a round base that one is attached to and they could put sand weights, rocks, etc.. to weight down the base if they felt it is need. Might not be a bad idea if kids are around it. For effect, you can make the base a turntable and with commutator either purchased or from a cord reel and supply power to the rotating tree for lighting effect. I have an ornament tree that we did this with for Christmas.

Last edited by pblackburn; Sat 08 June 2013 at 09:53.. Reason: forgot a word, sorry
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  #497  
Old Sat 08 June 2013, 09:58
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Thanks Gerald, thats some good leads.

Thanks Danilo very close to what I am looking for.

Yes Pete, found that one too, will expand on that idea.
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  #498  
Old Fri 19 July 2013, 11:44
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Well after much delay, procrastination and waiting on funds for the inverter, I now have the Spindle installed and it cuts great... only problem is it doesnt cut on the same place twice!!!

I ran a simple rectangle in 18mm pine ply doing three passes and every pass was offset in both the -x and -y direction by about 2mm per pass, at first I though it must be a loose pinion (not that anything was changed on the drive side) so I grabbed the end of the spindle and gave a few hefty tugs but nothing moved. I ran the file again this time cutting air and could see it slowly progressing across the table as it worked its way down. I ran the file a third time and the gantry jumped off the table with a resounding thump (obviously the two x motors decided to move in opposite directions) The only change has been installing the HF inverter and spindle so I must be getting electrical inteferance into my stepper cables.

Everything is grounded and shielded - the inverter manual indicates to have the spindle supply cable shield grounded at both ends - I have not done so yet as I have followed the common method here of only grounding the shields at one end (usually the source end) - that may be one solution to try.

I have contacted the agents for the drive (Yaskawa V1000) for their input, they have suggested reducing the carrier frequency to its lowest value (this may make the spindle run a bit noisier) and they have offered to supply a capacitor based input filter at no cost.

I have no ferrite cores or reactors on either side of the inverter as I was advised by the agents "its not necessary, this is such a high tech inverter it doesn't suffer from those problems" - well I have news for them

I ran out of time this afternoon to chase down any solutions but will attack it again on Monday.

On another note I have mounted the inverter in a seperate enclosure on the side of the machine - easy for the wiring but more difficult to monitor the display. The inverter has an anologue output (0-10v) that can be used for a remote display to indicate frequency or spindle speed or amps etc. The agents can supply me with a display but their price is simply rediculous (over R1000) I am sure there must be a way of turning a 0-10v signal into a digital read out "cheaply"! - any suggestions or leads I can follow?
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  #499  
Old Fri 19 July 2013, 13:46
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Doesn't your VFD already have a digital display? (You will be able to set that up to indicate whatever you want)

You won't get interference into the motor cables as such....your interference is into your line between the PC -> BoB -> Drives. Keep that away from the VFD & spindle cables.

Ferrite rings before and after the VFD are the simplest implement - use them like toroids and wind 3 turns of the power cable wires through them.
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  #500  
Old Fri 19 July 2013, 13:48
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
shield (if fails shield and ground) the signals from bob to the drives
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  #501  
Old Fri 19 July 2013, 14:12
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Cut out a window for the display in the enclosure. Remote displays and keypads are nice but you will not be controlling it from it so I would opt for the window. Use either polycarbonate or a window kit. It will not cause problems with emi that you do not have already. A VFD power cable helps a lot. It has a double protection to help with emi. I do not know why the manufacturers insist on their wiring diagrams on connecting the shield and drain on both ends. This defeats the drain principle. Ferrite cores and zero phase reactors should be all you should need. Only if the drive is really noisy would you need a line reactor or emi filter.
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  #502  
Old Fri 19 July 2013, 14:16
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Yes the VFD has a display, but its in an enclosure mounted down on the side of the machine - I am wanting a remote display that I count mount on my control cabinet so that I can see the spindle speed as I change the value of the trimpot.

I have some ferrite cores from another VFD, will give it a try

All cables inside and outside the control panel are shielded and the VFD is in a completely seperate steel enclosure.
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  #503  
Old Fri 19 July 2013, 21:04
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Communica will have some cheap panel-mounted digital voltmeters
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  #504  
Old Fri 19 July 2013, 22:51
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Digital voltmeter is the easiest way.
BUT this is a great Arduino opportunity if you want to.
Find out the V vs RPM relation, scale down the 0~10V to 0~5 with a 2 resistor voltage divider, & program Arduino to display rpm with LED or LCD display... will definately get everything hook up below R1000.
OR you can make a Modbus out of an Arduino, read the voltage & send it into Mac3 & display it in MACH3. Its ok to do this Serial, as there are no need for real time for such display. unless u consider refreshing display 5 time a seconds will ruin your operation.
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  #505  
Old Fri 19 July 2013, 23:43
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Another supplier of voltmeters nearer to you: www.mantech.co.za
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  #506  
Old Sat 20 July 2013, 04:22
Belli
Just call me: Greg
 
Johannesburg
South Africa
Hi Alan,
I'm not sure if I still have your number. Give me call/sms sometime. We have used plenty of these without any screened cables, I think I might know what the problem is. You can hook up your VFD directly to the breakout board, have spindle speed, on/off on the mach screen.
Greg
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  #507  
Old Sat 20 July 2013, 05:26
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Thanks for the input and thanks Greg for the call (that's what I call customer service ) I will try those suggestions on Monday and report back.
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  #508  
Old Mon 22 July 2013, 14:06
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Gremlins seem to be sorted and the machine is running sweetly - the finish quality of the cut is just fantastic.

Greg - I tried your solution but it brought up other problems, with the jumper in place some of the functionality stopped working - the macro for the tool touch off would not start (from the pendant or from the screen). When a program was run, the spindle would not start (although I could get it to start from the pendant??) I removed the jumper and all returned to normal.

I had been advised by Yaskawa to reduce the carrier frequency but before I tried that I installed a ferrite ring in the supply to the spindle (right at the inverter) and that has seemed to solve the problem. (I also re-checked some of the earthing and although I found nothing amiss, that might also have helped things a bit) I ran some work tonight and all seemed 100% but I will keep a keen eye for any fluctuations for the time being until my faith is fully restored.
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  #509  
Old Tue 18 February 2014, 11:54
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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New dust duct and foot

The spindle is installed and running well, but I have noticed that it runs a bit warm (especially with the heat we have been experiencing lately) much warmer than the router ever did.

I wanted to try and improve the cooling ability as the installed fan only blows air down 4 small channels on the corners of the spindle, as well as make the dust duct more compact so that I can use the space in the back of the Y-car for a possible separate drill installation. I got the idea of using the dust extraction air for cooling from an SCM router I worked on before. That particular design has the rather massive 10Hp spindle completely surrounded by the dust duct to cool the motor, you can't run that machine without the dust extraction and the pipe at the top was about 250mm diam.

My design uses the sides of the spindle as one face of the dust duct so that the air passing is in direct contact with the aluminium. I used as much of the available space as possible so the clearances are tight but nothing rubs or touches, The cross sectional area of the two side ducts are just a tad smaller than the total of the area of the pipe in the boom above.

The dust foot portion is the same size as the duct and fits within the Y-car so I have the added advantage of being able to lift the Z all the way up to clear the bottom pair of rollers on the spider. If I had wanted to get the Z higher with my old design I had to remove the dust foot.

Painting still needs to be done but its working very well with virtually no dust being left behind other than what is trapped in the cut groove. I know the welding sucks but a bit of bondo and paint and all will be good. My Mig welder doesnt handle thin plate (0.6mm) very well, on the lowest voltage and feed setting the wire feed is too fast, and one notch up and it burns through in a flash, so lots of small tacks to get the job done, at least I know I have good penetration (I have a Tig setup but don't have an Argon bottle yet - morally apposed to paying monthly rental on something I wont be using very often especially if its not used to make money, so if any local people have an Argon bottle that's taking up space in the garage, give me a call )

duct left.jpg
Duct wrapped around the spindle.

duct right.jpg
view from the other side.

duct with adaptor front.jpg
Installed in the Y-car.

modified spring mount.jpg
Had to move the spring attachment point and extend the bolt on the Z motor plate.

tight fit.jpg
Its a tight fit in there! but still enough clearance. (Good engineering I would say )

dust foot closed.jpg
View of the dust foot in the closed position.

dust foot open.jpg
Dust foot open for tool change. Custom made hinge for the door.

dust foot from below.jpg
View from below looking into the duct.

notch.jpg
Only modification needed to the structure of the machine, a small notch to allow the Y-car to move all the way to the hard stop. (wouldn't do that on R600 000.00 machine now would you?)

front clearance.jpg
Clearance between the front of the duct and the rear of the beam of the gantry.

with boom front.jpg
View from the front. (note newer dust plant in the distance - much quieter than my old Frankenstein creation)

with boom side.jpg
View from the side.
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  #510  
Old Tue 18 February 2014, 12:02
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
That is a very slick setup, Alan. Of course we'd expect nothing less from #11...
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