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  #1  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 10:43
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
Happy to watch the axes mooove AND cut wood! - Abbotsford, BC, Canada

Hi all, I was delighted to find this forum, and the wealth of information and experience that it represents seems nothing short of amazing... I downloaded Gerald's excellent plans and started reading...
I found my way here by way of searching the web to find information on building an xy table and gantry to hold a router that I could use to surface large slabs for table tops... I have a lumber band mill and access to large log slabs that I want to make table tops out of... but they can weigh 500- 1000 lbs and be up to 36" wide and 6-8" thick so difficult to handle or feed thru a sander or planer....
I was planning to make a router mounted in a gantry... but the mechmate would take this idea to a whole new level, doing fully automated surfacing passes... so with the way most of my projects seem to go... start with a simple idea... and soon it gets out of hand :-)... I have decided to try and build a mechmate as a slab surfacing machine.
So far I have:

-decided on 61"x 121" cutting surface
-the steel for the table cut.. using 8" C channel and 2x4 tube for the legs.. hoping to make things beefy enough to hold 1000lb slabs...

- the rack and pinions..

-EMC running on the workbench with a gecko 210 and NEMA23 stepper, and it seems nicely packaged and easy to work with, ( I work in the Linux/IT field) leaning towards trying all steppers using gecko 210s and direct drive NEMA34 from motionking 34HS9802 to get as much speed range as possible for doing light surfacing cuts across large distances...

- Spindle motor 1.5KW water cooled with inverter ordered from ebay... after reading posts maybe I should have gone bigger?

- still trying to decide on the rails... rather than grind, leaning towards buying the finished and drilled rails from superior bearing... not sure if hardened or unhardened would be the way to go... the wheels are hardened so should the track be left unhardened? will have to use a 7ft and 8ft section spliced to get the length, can you do a scarf joint with hardened track?

- am having trouble finding a laser cutter for the parts locally... still trying to figure out what to do on that front...

- my home shop space is full, so making space for this table is going to be a daunting task, I am hoping to use the table bottom for as much storage as possible...

I will keep reading and learning..

Thanks to all who contribute and Gerald for his design!
... looking forward to hopefully having something cutting by this coming Jan/Feb...
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  #2  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 12:25
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
Send a message via Yahoo to Robert M Send a message via Skype™ to Robert M
Welcome abord Fred
Tight space….I know all too well the feeling
Wishing you all the best with your build, keep us updated with some photos of your progress.
Amicalement, Robert
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  #3  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 13:35
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Fred,
Sent you a PM on the kits.
Welcome to the forum
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  #4  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 21:43
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredkehler View Post
can you do a scarf joint with hardened track?
Standard practice is a squared off butt joint.
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  #5  
Old Wed 25 November 2009, 12:26
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
ok thanks, that decision is made then, am ordering hardened track from superior bearing
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  #6  
Old Mon 30 November 2009, 10:16
jehayes
Just call me: Joe #53
 
Whidbey Island, Washington
United States of America
Welcome Fred, Good to have another West Coaster, you will find it is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!
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  #7  
Old Wed 02 December 2009, 13:33
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
Thanks... I'll admit I have spent more than a few minutes watching my motors being turned by EMC on the workbench, once the machine is running its hard to imagine getting any 'real' (paying) work done.... do you eventually ever get to the point where the fascination with the movement becomes old hat and start getting work done :-) Have you finished yours and cutting with it?
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  #8  
Old Thu 03 December 2009, 18:25
jehayes
Just call me: Joe #53
 
Whidbey Island, Washington
United States of America
Not yet, I have finished the table and am setting up to motors and controllers now. I hope to have movement and first cuts before the end of the year. My first project will be to cut parts for a stitch&Glue boat I am building.
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  #9  
Old Fri 15 January 2010, 14:23
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
Mechmate contstruction underway, Abbotsford, BC

started construction Dec 2009 by building table while I was waiting for parts to start arriving... opted for 121"x 61" cutting area..
-table sides are 8" C channel with legs and braces all welded in 'X' direction
-table braces and base support channels are all bolted to make a future move easier, and to allow table to be knocked down to get wheelabrated and painted...
- went with hardened track and wheels from Superior Bearing, very nice to deal with...
- ordered laser cut parts from Heath (domino11) on the mechmate forum (excellent support and good fit on all parts, thanks Heath!), which arrived 4PM Christmas eve!... assembled the gantry and Y car by end of December
- did a lot of drilling and tapping to mount X and y rails and track... got x and y rolling,
- Z car I went with the hardened track as well, so I changed to 4x3/16 aluminum backing plate stiffened with 1x2 square edge aluminum tube with the hardened track bolted to the 3/16 backing plate... I moved the v wheels on the spider as far out as I could to accomodate the extra width the hardened track needed...
- just finished machining the aluminum motor mounts for my 1.5Kw chinese spindle (water cooled)
- I am now waiting for a day to come available so I can warm my shop up to 60degrees so I can attach the linear rack with the 3M tape ( still a bit nervous about this :-)
- so far so good.. I have my pinion gears mounted on my Motion King stepper (direct drive) so wiring and getting motion going is not too far away...
- so far so good... I am finding that I am doing at least as much reading on the forum as time spent building... the forum has a lot of depth.. although it can take some time to get to where you need to go.. but chances are very good the questions that come up have been covered .. and so far have always found a solution in the forums... thanks Gerald... you have done an excellent job moderating!
- I have been taking photos and will post soon...
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  #10  
Old Fri 15 January 2010, 18:32
jehayes
Just call me: Joe #53
 
Whidbey Island, Washington
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredkehler View Post
- I am now waiting for a day to come available so I can warm my shop up to 60degrees so I can attach the linear rack with the 3M tape ( still a bit nervous about this :-)
Welcome Fred: Sounds like you are going to race to the head of the Pacific Northwest Pack!

Don't worry about the tape. I put mine on at about 45 Degrees (F) and it is unmovable! I didn't even bother with the two set screws at the ends - you don't need them.

Good luck and hope to see some pics.

Joe in Washington
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  #11  
Old Fri 15 January 2010, 21:03
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Good start Fred. I have combined your 2 threads into one.
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  #12  
Old Sat 16 January 2010, 10:33
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
Thanks for the encouragement,
45degrees I can do without any effort... did you use any special 'adhesion enhancer' with your tape after degreasing?
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  #13  
Old Sat 16 January 2010, 13:47
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Fred, Glad you liked the parts. Sounds like you are well on your way!
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  #14  
Old Sat 16 January 2010, 22:52
jehayes
Just call me: Joe #53
 
Whidbey Island, Washington
United States of America
Gluing the Racks

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredkehler View Post
...did you use any special 'adhesion enhancer' with your tape after degreasing?
Fred: No, I just cleaned both the rack and the bottom of the rail with a new clean scrubby soaked in acetone and scubbed the crap out of both. Once they were completely dry I mounted the rack using about 6 spring clamps and left them in place for 24 hours. No worries!
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  #15  
Old Wed 10 February 2010, 18:47
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
well the build is moving along.. pun intended... the mm is now moving under its own power.. after taping the rack ( thanks to encouragement from the forum) the painting and final assembly went quite smoothly... we now have 3 axis that have been tested .. each individually.. using an old linear power 12Amp supply that i could crank up to 33 volts and disable the overcurrent shutdown on... it was surprising to see that heavy X gantry nimbly zipping back and forth.. even with direct drive 25 tooth pinions! the gecko 203vs are set at 7 amps.. this was the most surprising thing sofar was that the gantry even moves at all ( given its massive weight!) I didn't go above 40 IPS on the gantry at this point as I didn't trust my power supply any further... ( and no stop blocks yet) although I shudder to imagine the mass of the gantry slamming into a metal on metal stop...
the Y car feels quite lively at 90IPS ..
the Z axis with 1.5KW spindle weighed in at 18 lbs on my bathroom scale so I ordered a gas spring for 20lbs. still waiting for that..
Now in the process of wiring the control panel and building a heavier power supply 43Volts with a 1500VA torroidal xfmr and separate 35A bridge/capacitors for the X motors and the Y/Z motors...
so as soon as that is completed, it is going to be time to make some chips...
although as I suspected... with the machine moving on its own... progress has slowed down with much time being spent(wasted?) just watching the axis cycling... I don't seem to get tired of that.... :-)
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  #16  
Old Thu 11 February 2010, 04:53
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Fred,

That is one of the nice experiences to see the machine move after the time spent building. When you start cutting wood that increases the glazed over eyes and the desire to watch it cut.

I only wish you lived closer. It would be great to stop over and pick up some large slaps.

Welcome to club. You will have a number soon.
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  #17  
Old Tue 23 February 2010, 13:02
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
cutting is happening! still waiting for ER11 collet for my 1/4' cutters for my spindle motor so I mounted a makita laminate cutter in my mount and used it and a handful of throwaway bits to do some experimenting by cutting pockets in the back of the spoiler board to allow for the carriage bolt heads which are left proud of the lower board hoping to leave as much strength in the lower board as possible... we generated code to do a line of holes in the X direction and then just repositioned along the Y axis and let it go... amazing to watch... very happy about the performance sofar... the Z axis floats up a bit with the lighter in weight laminate cutter when the power is off but it doesn't seem to affect the operation in terms of doing the plunging and cutting...
next step is to finish the E stops and proxs', more time and effort are going into making the stop blocks and prox mounts than most of the project sofar...
I will post some pictures tonite... it just seems that any free time I have I spend on the machine, hard to break away to do things like update the forum... :-)
later...
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  #18  
Old Tue 23 February 2010, 13:57
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredkehler View Post
experimenting by cutting pockets in the back of the spoiler board to allow for the carriage bolt heads which are left proud of the lower board hoping to leave as much strength in the lower board as possible...
Be very careful, the reason for countersinking the heads of the bolts in the lower board is to enable one to skim the upper board down to the glue line when resurfacing. If you have glued your spoilboard down you will have to be very careful you dont hit the bolts in the future... If the bolts are countersunk into the lower board there is still plenty strength left in the board, remember most of the forces on the board are in compression and a little bit of shear (side force) there is no upward force on the board at all.
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  #19  
Old Tue 23 February 2010, 19:52
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Well done on the cutting Fred!

Alan, we have had some issues with bolts tearing out the bottom of the support board and that could be blamed on screwing down jobs that weren't flat. The thick jobs often start flat, but when it comes to unscrewing time they have cupped or climbed.
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  #20  
Old Sun 28 February 2010, 10:53
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
first carving! finally posted link to my photos

the power supply is functional now, I used a 1500va transformer and pulled off 2 separate supplies each with a 18,000ufd caps and their own bridge rectifiers... 42Volts DC to the geckos.. the lights would dim when the contactor would close and the caps would charge up... I ended up having to put a torroid in series with the transformer and bridges with 6 turns
thru it to choke the startup current ( it was actually tripping the breaker at time)
what a difference the new supply makes to performance, I am very happy with the performance the direct drive motors give... but one of the first projects will be to try cutting some belt drive brackets out of aluminum to see if the extra resolution it offers will provide visible improvement in cutting marks... right now i'm only getting just over 500 steps/inch on my axis and I would like to get that up to 1500 with the belt drives...

finally got around to uploading my photos to google, hope this link works...

http://picasaweb.google.ca/fred.kehl...eat=directlink

BTW my total investment in material and parts... and including some labour for painting/welding is just over $6000US and that includes the 1.5KW watercooled spindle and VFD which will be installed next ... very happy with that.. feels like a first-rate heavy duty product... thanks to all who encouraged...
and I would encourage anyone who is thinking about building, to just do it!
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  #21  
Old Sun 28 February 2010, 13:03
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Great looking machine.

I see Dust and Paint. Get some MM logos and a SN is yours !!!

Mike
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  #22  
Old Sun 28 February 2010, 15:57
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
From your photos, you've got a first class machine.

Yours is the first machine that I've seen that uses both the G203v (Active High signals with Common = Ground) and a G210(?) (Active Low signals with Common = +5VDC). How are you doing that? Do you invert some of the signals to make them all the same polarity? Also, it looks like you've got four Opto-Isolated drivers, two each AC and DC. How are you using them?
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  #23  
Old Sun 28 February 2010, 17:49
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
Thanks Mike,
good observations...
in perfect hindsight I should/would have used all 203Vs ( but I am cheap), I had a 210A from a previous experiment... so I used that for my Z, it is configurable to common ground or +5 with internal jumpers, seems to work well ( the problem is the extra filtering on the power supply, a pain to find a neat location for the filter cap).. the pmdx122 seems to have no problem driving it... the pmdx can also drive both X 203s with the same logic line so it simplifies my x motor config..
the opto isolators: 1 ac is for my main contactor (120V coil) which is controlled by my EStop output from EMC so I have a method of cutting power via software
another ac for dust collector (24VAC coil), still need to run wire for that
2 DC for control of the VFD and cooling pump.. also still wiring that, having trouble finding a good cooling pump solution... so might have to change that to and AC isolator as well....
the units are modular, so I can swap AC/DC or Input/Output without having to rewire... they came out of my junk box so I used them... might not get them too easily anymore...

does the difference between the 210 and the 210A answer your question?
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  #24  
Old Sun 28 February 2010, 20:21
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Fred,
That is an excellent job on your machine. You should post a couple of the pics with you in them in the mugshots section! From the photos, it looks like you used steel angle to mount your Vcap rails on? I think you might have been the first one to do that. How did that work out for you? Didnt like the aluminum?
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  #25  
Old Sun 28 February 2010, 21:50
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
Thanks, I considered the aluminum 'plan B', I had the steel angle so I used it, it was easy to work with ... I didn't want to deal with painting aluminun rails on the first go.. and this way I have a path to improve performance if I need it... but so far I am more than happy with the performance of my direct drive motors, on the mass of the gantry... the gantry probably would have been 20-30 lbs lighter in aluminum I am guessing, I tried to build everything serviceable with lots of bolts and tapping, now proving basic functionality and then see how much improvement needs to be made in areas... I have some servo motors for the gantry if I need more performance, but for now I think I am going to have more performance than my spindle and cutters are going to need... will keep you posted though as more experience is gained.... although the idea of going from a 2HP to a 5HP spindle has already suggested itself, just by the virtue of the ER11 collet limiting shank size to 1/4" seriously limits any surfacing cutters that I can use... and surfacing was going to be one of my main applications...
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  #26  
Old Mon 01 March 2010, 05:51
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
Fred,

Thanks for the explanation. I'd forgotten about the signal polarity option on the pulse multiplier board. I have some G212 units that I converted to G202 units by removing the pulse multiplier board. Shopbot found that there was an undocumented flaw with the pulse multiplier board that caused positioning errors when very small moves were made in rapid succession, even when the PM was set to 1:1. It took me a lot of testing to verify that error, but I was finally able to duplicate it. The fix was to remove the PM board and replace it with an opto-coupler chip, but that also took away the option of selecting the polarity of the signals.

The new G201x does not have the Pulse Multiplier function, but it automatically handles either Active High or Active Low signals without a jumper. It does not need the 470uF filter cap. It's costs less at $114 U.S. instead of $147 U.S. I've never used it, but it is on my shopping list (if money ever flows again).

I still use the Opto-22 G4 I/O modules that are probably close cousins to your output modules. As you say, because different modules can easily be swapped, they make re-configuring I/O really easy.
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  #27  
Old Tue 02 March 2010, 05:17
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
OK - I have to ask. Is your control box hanging from the side of your machine with hinges .
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  #28  
Old Thu 22 April 2010, 12:38
Travish
Just call me: Travis #75
 
Wa
United States of America
Hi Fred,

I thought I would say hello here. Well done! Good job on getting it done in tight quarters.

I'm just below the border from you. Your son in-law James found me from a freind in his line of work. Small world! Amazing how many people this great forum has brought together.

Cheers,
Travis
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  #29  
Old Thu 22 April 2010, 21:38
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHead View Post
OK - I have to ask. Is your control box hanging from the side of your machine with hinges .
sorry its been awhile since I logged in...I missed your question way back there... I did use a couple of hinges to hang the backplane, while I was developing it.. I'm getting old, working on my haunches or sitting on the floor is not as comfortable as it used to be....
with it hinged I could swing it up to an easy horizontal position to work on it....
it is now securely mounted in its enclosure...
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  #30  
Old Thu 22 April 2010, 21:50
fredkehler
Just call me: fred
 
Abbotsfrod (BC)
Canada
Thanks for the contact...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travish View Post
Hi Fred,

I thought I would say hello here. Well done! Good job on getting it done in tight quarters.

I'm just below the border from you. Your son in-law James found me from a freind in his line of work. Small world! Amazing how many people this great forum has brought together.

Cheers,
Travis
Hi Travis... good to meet you... are you a mechmate builder as well? It is surprising how global this forum is in its reach and how close to home some of the connections are... James and I have been having lots of fun trying to get up to speed on the gcode development cycle... some interesting challenges and learning coming up with 'good' gcode... the mechmate is turning out to be a workhorse... doing what we ask it without complaining... but code that takes 3 hours to run can also be tuned to run in 45 minutes with very little difference in finished appearance....

cheers
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