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  #1  
Old Thu 26 May 2011, 15:17
MnkyNthMddl
Just call me: Mnky
 
League City Texas
United States of America
Figuring Out the Electronics! Texas

First of all, let me congratulate Gerald and Mike on a first rate forum. The achievements of developing and maintaining a useable knowledge base, a sense of community and ownership while demonstrating a desire to ensure quality in both the experience of building a first rate machine, and personal growth in each builder are apparent and is something that should be acknowledged.

My name is Kelly and I’ve been prowling this forum almost daily for longer than I can remember. Being a mechanical designer by profession, I have really enjoyed reading through the volumes of information, making numerous decisions (and revising just as many); I have watched many of the builders have a hand in developing ideas and solutions. And like many others, I have on several occasions said to myself, “This is what I am building…………….today.” Then tomorrow would come along with some new bit of information or a new concept and I would find myself revising my entire plan.

Finally, after determining an ever present theme in each of my formats, it was apparent to me that the biggest obstacle in my path to beginning my build was…………….me. So, setting myself aside (if that’s even possible) I made a few basic choices and just started the journey. The path may not always be known but the destination is constant.

So with all the rambling done, the one definite thing I have decided is that I am building a MechMate that will accommodate 49x97 material. A few of the variables I have made decisions on (today) are that it will use a belt reduction system and Keling motors (KL34H280-45-8A) along with G203V drivers, a PMDX-122 BOB and proximity sensors.

I’ve been through JR’s electrical formulas and explanations so many times that I find myself actually beginning to think that I may be developing an understanding of it instead of looking at it like a foreign language. So, based on all of that, I intend on using a PS6N56R5R12 power supply.
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  #2  
Old Thu 26 May 2011, 17:58
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Mnky,

Welcome to the forum! My biggest obstacle was myself to and then I just said *^&% it and bought the laser cut parts. After that everything was smooth sailing with a few learning curves thrown in.

I can tell you that you will be very happy with the stepper motor and driver set up you have chosen. Although different power supply my machine cruises right along with that setup and will knock clamps off the table and keep chugging along fine.

The forum here is great and everyone here will help you along to build your Mechmate.
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  #3  
Old Thu 26 May 2011, 19:59
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Welcome to the team !!!
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  #4  
Old Thu 26 May 2011, 23:25
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Welcome!
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  #5  
Old Fri 27 May 2011, 04:50
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
PS6N56R5R12 power supply is the power supply I have used on 3 machines thus far. You won't be disappointed. The 5v and 12V extra taps are very helpful.

Welcome to the team and don't be afraid to ask the questions - they make the forum a much more fun thing to read when it's interactive.

Best,
Sean
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  #6  
Old Fri 03 June 2011, 10:23
MnkyNthMddl
Just call me: Mnky
 
League City Texas
United States of America
Electrical Layout

Well, after ordering a few things I took some time to work on an initial electrical layout. I have a few questions with it.

1. I'm not entirely sure I have the E-Stop circuit laid out properly.

2. I'm working through the information to determine a resistor size for the G203V. (Maybe a 63k)

3. It was suggested to use power supply 5N8R12 instead of 6N56R5R12. However, I was wondering about the consequences of using a 5N50R5R12. I was intending to use the 5V for the PMDX-122 and the 12V for the Proximity sensors. Any advice would be appreciated.

4. I believe I have set the motors up as 8 Lead Unipolar (Half Coil). A lot of discussion over half coil, unipolar etc. has left me second guessing myself.

I hope I have attached my drawing here. Any feed back would be awesome.
Attached Files
File Type: dxf Electrical Layout.dxf (456.5 KB, 47 views)
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  #7  
Old Fri 03 June 2011, 11:13
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
That E-Stop circuit will explode the PMDX-122. You cannot take the 120VAC Normally closed loop of switches and the contactor coil, and connect it to the 5VDC J6 input of the PMDX. Loop this back after the "control box E-stop", and keep it away from the PMDX. More on this below ...

The ground from the 5V supply should go to P8-1, not P8-5.

For half-coil operation, you should have four unused (not jumpered together) leads at each motor.

Make sure that when you wire the geckos, you don't daisy-chain the power inputs. Each should get it's own set of wires back to the power supply.

I suspect that those 12V relays are redundant, but it's a nice safe way to interface to the PMDX. You could likely daisy chain the proxy sensors into one relay, or even directly to the PMDX input - that last option needs careful circuit analysis, though.

Connecting the E-Stop to the PMDX is redundant, because if the E-Stop fires you're
cutting the power supply to the PMDX anyway. If you want to keep the electronics up and running so that you can send an E-Stop signal to the computer, you'll need to power the PMDX from a supply that doesn't get switched by the main contactor. Then you could potentially add a relay with a 120V coil that switches the PMDX input. I don't see a lot of value in doing this, however.
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  #8  
Old Fri 03 June 2011, 11:45
MnkyNthMddl
Just call me: Mnky
 
League City Texas
United States of America
Thanks for your input Brad. I think I have incorporated the changes you were talking about into the schematic. Also, I think I will leave the individual relays in for the Proximity sensors at this time. However, since they are not connected individually to the control boad, Im still trying to determine if there is any real value in the redundancy. (Hmmmm, more review in that area I suppose.)

One other thing is that the more I try to study the motor wiring issue the more it confuses me.
Attached Files
File Type: dxf Electrical Layout.dxf (457.7 KB, 39 views)
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  #9  
Old Fri 03 June 2011, 13:50
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
A few more points: If I have the right specs on those motors, you want blue, red and brown, black for Phase A and Phase B - using only "half" of each of the motor coils.

The E-stop is okay now.

I just took a closer look at the router control - you have no power in that circuit; there are the "dry contacts" of the relay on the PMDX at J7, and the contactor coil. Assuming that the contactor has a 120v coil, then you need to add 120v power into that loop.
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  #10  
Old Mon 06 June 2011, 09:51
MnkyNthMddl
Just call me: Mnky
 
League City Texas
United States of America
Brad, I'm not sure I see what you're talking about when you say there is no power to the router. Possibly I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

Also, Mike...I received the laser cut/bent parts kit. Thanks. I will have to get replacements for the decals later as UPS wasnt kind to them but that still remains a long way off. Besides, all the metal bits arrived just fine.
Attached Files
File Type: dxf Electrical Layout.dxf (467.6 KB, 18 views)
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  #11  
Old Mon 06 June 2011, 09:56
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
I'll mail you some more.
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  #12  
Old Mon 06 June 2011, 11:24
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
How will the router get turned on - what power source switches the contactor coil on? You have it wired to J7 of the PMDX, but that doesn't provide any power to energize the coil. Once the coil is on, the part of the circuit that goes to the router itself looks fine.
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  #13  
Old Mon 06 June 2011, 14:30
MnkyNthMddl
Just call me: Mnky
 
League City Texas
United States of America
Ok, I spent some more time going over the drawing, your explanations and looking through the forum for information. I found this information from my search.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradm View Post
Okay, assuming you have a 120v control box, 120v router, and two 120v contactors, and you have the main working fine, and the main is switching the neutral on T1 to L1, and the hot on T2 to L2

From the main contactor, run L1 to T1 on the router contactor. Same for L2 main to T2 router contactor. This provides the power to be switched.

From the router contactor, Run L1 and L2 to the router. Run a ground too, of course.
That's the drive circuit.

Now, for the control circuit. Run the neutral from L1 on the main (or T1 on the router contactor, they are the same), to A1 (coil) on the router contactor. Run from A2 (coil) on the router contactor to one side of the relay on the PMDX (J7-1). Run from the other side of the relay on the PMDX (J7-2) to hot on L2 on the main (or T2 on the router contactor).

So, both the router power, and the router control power are only available when the main is switched on. The router power is then switched again by the router contactor. The router contactor coil is switched by the relay on the PMDX.

Note: I've never seen a PMDX-122. I'm working from the User's Manual Revision 1.11, which also states that the relay contacts can handle 10 amps at 24, 120 or 240V in Section 9, and gives the relay connector data in Section 4.4.

Does that help?
I am not convinced that I have it completely figured out yet but I will put this up for review again. I will spend some more time this evening studying it.

the part that is confusing me is when you say there wasn't any thing to power the router. I was under the impression that the PMDX provided the signal for the relay to close to energize the router. The switch at the router would normally be closed except for bit changing.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Electrical Layout.zip (66.0 KB, 25 views)
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  #14  
Old Tue 07 June 2011, 09:41
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
See this edit to eliminate the short circuit across the PMDX and make the control circuit match the description above.
Attached Images
File Type: png elec3fix.png (5.1 KB, 393 views)
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  #15  
Old Thu 09 June 2011, 13:55
MnkyNthMddl
Just call me: Mnky
 
League City Texas
United States of America
Ordered some of the steel yesterday and spent some more time working on the electrical. Want to begin ordering the electrical components soon so Im trying to get a good grasp on the circuit operation. I spent some more time working on the pushbutton boxes and the circuits that go with them.

Also ordered the slide plate to begin working on it.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Electrical Layout.zip (75.0 KB, 43 views)
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  #16  
Old Fri 10 June 2011, 08:32
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
One thing to keep in mind is once you go beyond the bob and power circuit, everything in the drawings is x4 X,X,Y,Z drives, Proxys etc. So you can simplify the thought and understanding by eliminating this duplication and only figure out how one motor works electically. The Kitchen Table project is really the best way to work through the process of understaning what is needed to get the motor moving.

I am trying to open your dxf file without much luck. Can you attach this as a PDF or JPG ?
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  #17  
Old Fri 10 June 2011, 11:24
MnkyNthMddl
Just call me: Mnky
 
League City Texas
United States of America
Thanks Mike. Here is the drawing in jpg. Hope this helps. I've been working on the schematic trying to develop an understanding for the series and parallel buttons.

Hopefully I'll be able to start working on the rails soon while I am working on this electrical part.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Electrical Layout Model (1).jpg (31.9 KB, 292 views)
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  #18  
Old Fri 10 June 2011, 18:19
beckj
Just call me: Jim
 
Sugar Land, Texas
United States of America
Mnky,
I was wondering where you sourced your structural steel? I am familiar with Triple-S Steel, they have 2 location in Houston.

I am looking for some metal salvage places that I can get a lower cost on the material and then just invest the discount back into stronger/stouter materials.

With the high cost of copper these days, it looks like the wiring is going to be a significant cost as well. Have you found any of the local resources?
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  #19  
Old Sat 11 June 2011, 08:45
MnkyNthMddl
Just call me: Mnky
 
League City Texas
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by beckj View Post
Mnky,
I was wondering where you sourced your structural steel? I am familiar with Triple-S Steel, they have 2 location in Houston.

With the high cost of copper these days, it looks like the wiring is going to be a significant cost as well. Have you found any of the local resources?
Jim,

Im am going to source my steel in a few places. Most of the smaller stuff I will buy at local suppliers but the larger pieces I will probably get from SSS. Fortunately I work for someone that will let me buy steel at their bulk cost and have me pay for it.

The cost of copper right now is definately having an effect on the cost of the wiring. However, I think Mike has some supplies of cable that I will look into when I'm ready to buy. If not, I will just source it out to the best price I can find.
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  #20  
Old Sat 11 June 2011, 09:51
beckj
Just call me: Jim
 
Sugar Land, Texas
United States of America
Thanks for the response.

I heard that Rose Steel Center Inc. was another supplier here in Houston but there selection was limited.

Also, I am not in a real hurry for the metal yet, I still have to buy another welding machine. It seems that were some people and I use that term very loosely that needed my metal working equipment and metal more than I did.
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