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  #31  
Old Sun 07 September 2014, 17:57
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
Good progress on the weekend. Quick Question: 8mm angle for rails any clearance issues known?
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  #32  
Old Mon 08 September 2014, 01:58
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
8 mm steel or alu ? 8 mm will still work with the grinder setup excenters, I think and the V wheels don't care.

Alu you have to watch your overall dimensions and add/subtract the difference.
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  #33  
Old Mon 08 September 2014, 02:36
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
Thanks Fox, Steel.
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  #34  
Old Mon 08 September 2014, 22:35
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
6 September 2014
Drilled gantry and Y Rail Clamp Strip (10 20 235)
Setup for welding Y Rail
Welded main longitudinal beam end closing plates.
Had a big clean up and vacuumed the garage, grinding and welding dross accumulating.


7 September 2014
Welded Y Gantry together and didn't realise until I got it finished that I had forgotten to make sure the tube seams were facing down. I had to re-drill the rail bolt holes through the seam of the y rail rect tube which wasn't fun and indicates more fun when I need to install the clamp strip. Had a good Fathers Day with my TA. He kept me supplied with welding rods. I also bought some new rods for the gantry welding and they are so much better to use than the box of old crappy rods I have been using on the table.


The table is pretty much done now, just need to remove the baseboard and paint it.





8 September 2014
Had some problems with the Power Supply I ordered not being shipped and decided to cancel the order. Need to rethink the power supply, It's not as easy to get the 65VDC as I thought it was going to be.

9 September 2014
Asked Peter Homann for a solution to Power Supply problem and he has suggested using three switchmode 24VDC power supplies and a power supply multiplier. See:

http://www.homanndesigns.com/store/i...roducts_id=240

and

http://www.homanndesigns.com/store/i...roducts_id=211

Also bought a surplus stock (4 year old) brand new touch screen Dell Inspiron One 2320 Touch today and have installed Mach3 on it, it runs Windows 7. I'm going to mount it on the machine as a HMI, hopefully it works without any dramas.

Dale
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  #35  
Old Mon 08 September 2014, 22:42
wiifm
Just call me: Dennis
 
Cairns
Australia
Does the Dell have the parallel port output or are you going with a smoothstepper? Homann Designs are the Warp9 Tech Designs agents in Australia, so you might want to have a chat with him about that as well
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  #36  
Old Tue 09 September 2014, 01:34
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
I have an ESS that I bought off Homann.
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  #37  
Old Tue 09 September 2014, 05:39
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
You really don't need voltage regulation for stepper motor... In fact, unregulated power supply is desirable. Motor (all motors to be precise) don't like to ride with a foot on the brake...
As for the BOB, most of them has a voltage regulator built-in... so using a SMPS wit regulation is doing the voltage regulation twice & no advantage for doing it.
BUT most SMPS off the shelf are voltage regulate, hence no cost benefit to get a unregulated SMPS.

Last edited by KenC; Tue 09 September 2014 at 05:47..
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  #38  
Old Tue 09 September 2014, 06:24
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
Thats a good comment Ken. I hadn't thought of the 'foot on break' analogy. In any case the price is good when you don't have high shipping costs to move Kg's of wound copper around the world.

The deciding factor is really that I don't have a lot of time to go through all the options and weigh the pros and cons. I just review the best practice from this site and others and then follow the recommendations of my suppliers. Invariably, something will go wrong along the way, but i'll cross those bridges when I get there.

Last edited by Duds; Tue 09 September 2014 at 06:38..
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  #39  
Old Tue 09 September 2014, 06:52
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
BTW, off topic, but for those interested in the human behind the build YWCA recently featured me in the YWCA Computer Clubhouse newsletter. I'm really chuffed.

Computer Clubhouse update - September.pdf
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  #40  
Old Tue 09 September 2014, 08:18
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
3 pages of Q & A. Wonderful.

Congratulations on the write up and kudo's to you for volunteering and sharing your knowledge with the kids.
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  #41  
Old Wed 10 September 2014, 04:17
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
BUMP.

Z Axis Origins and Tool Steel Grinding

Just a bump for myself so I can find my way back. Useful info on the thinking and development of the Z axis manufacturing.
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  #42  
Old Wed 10 September 2014, 04:36
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
This is cool

Tapping with a spindle

Does anyone know if it's some sort of clutch, gearbox, surely the spindle isn't actually being driven at the low speeds required to tap holes?
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  #43  
Old Wed 10 September 2014, 06:02
lonestaral
Just call me: Al #114
 
Isarn
Thailand
Send a message via Skype™ to lonestaral
I watched the video without sound, but the R.P.M. looked slow and it looked like the material was Aluminium.
In my metal machining former life there were 3 types of Tapping holders.

1. Rigid tapping. The R.P.M. and Z axis feed in perfect harmony.

2. Floating holder. The Z was fed into the work at 95% of pitch. A spring in the tapping head compensated for any errors.

3. Holder with an adjustable clutch. Again compensating for any axis drive errors or material chemistry differences..

Yes, it can be done, just like changing tools and setting height or work offsets.

The ongoing process of Design and Development.
How deep are your pockets ?
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  #44  
Old Wed 10 September 2014, 10:06
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
This is a floating holder, spindle and feedrate don't have to match exactly as the holder compensates for that and the tap is pulled out.

For rigit tapping it should be a servo spindle which that on the video is not. Just an ordinary VFD controlled spindle.

Tap holders can be acquired and mounted in collet, or like their in video be a part of some type of holder.
More here
http://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holders..._27/index.html
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  #45  
Old Tue 30 September 2014, 05:34
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
Progress update.

I have been pretty busy with paying customers recently so progress slowed.

However, I have made some progress.

I had some problems with rails mainly because I'm not using standard materials. Cutting tests on 8mm angle failed miserably. The discs kept bogging when they got all the way through from friction between the waste material and rail. I had to clamp the waste to keep the cut gap open. It wasn't good the end result was that I spent a day cutting one x rail and wound up with very poor parallelism along the length of the rail. This was without even starting to grind the V.

My wife reminded me what my time is worth to my clients and I bought some pre ground rail.

Now I am mounting the rail to some 3mm angle that I have in stock, but, on the outside to avoid the internal radius on the angle from rolling mill process.

I'm going to double sided tape the rack under the combined thickness of the v rail and angle. Probably a picture is needed to explain, I will add when I get a chance.

I have been working on my controls and have mounted all my controls hardware in the panel and started my loom, it's nice working in my discipline. The loom and panel go quickly.
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  #46  
Old Tue 07 October 2014, 05:44
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
This last weekend I made great progress on the rails which had been really bogging me down.

Rail grinding just wasn't my thing, I consumed cutting discs way to fast and had problems with the cut diving and that was before I even started on the 45's I used up a lot of time and wasn't happy with the result.

As mentioned above I canned the ground rails and bought v-cap rail from TEA Transmissions The rail arrived really fast, next day.

I decided to use some 3mm angle to mount the v-cap rail on but, again, had lots of difficulty doing a nice job of ripping the angle down and getting a nice neat parallel rail height. I felt much more confident using the bottom of the angle as a rail reference, using the v-shoulder for a reference just wasn't going to work with my poor milling.

IMG_0328.jpg

The gap between the bottom of the rail and main beam is caused by the cutting heat bowing the steel up. When I mounted the v-rail I clamped the mounting angle to the main beam every 300mm and then sat the rail on the main beam and drilled the rails.

IMG_0333.jpg

Here's a photo of the repair I made when the cut I was making dove and gouged out too deep. I just welded the gouge and ground it back roughly.

IMG_0346.jpg

I mounted the rail to the support angle using M4 x 8mm machine screws. I have a box of them from some other project. And I'm really happy with the finished job, 50 machine screws drilled and tapped at 75mm centres on each side. 100 machine screws!

Lessons Learned
The biggest lesson actually has nothing to do with rail grinding. I have read all the arguments on here about rail grinding, watched the youtube videos and think that there's really not a lot new to offer on the subject of rail grinding. I can offer a new alternative idea to v-cap rail mounting.

The real lesson learned is taps. I started tapping with an old M4 taper tap I found in the bottom of a draw, a cheap chinese tap I probably bought at trash and treasure markets, who knows. I use a battery drill to tap holes and try and get the clutch as high as possible and still engage before I shear taps. It's a skill I learned as an apprentice on big construction job where I tapped thousands of holes. Anyway at hole 42, I know because I was 3 holes from the end of that rail, I sheared my old faithful M4 taper tap.

OK, no problem jumped in the truck and headed off to Specialty Fasteners for a new tap. I bought two more M4 taper tap expensive fancy Bordo brand name taps. Sheared, Bordo tap no1 on hole 43 and Bordo tap no2 on hole 50. Two taps and only one hole successfully tapped. Raced off to Jaycar and bought 2 more M4 taps, cheap chinese $4 each, and successfully tapped the remaining 52 holes.

I'm sure the Bordo taps are super high quality, they are really hard and have no flex at all the battery drill just shears them even at the lowest clutch setting. The chinese taps flex and twist a huge amount. I can see the flutes twist the width of the flute when the clutch engages.

Finally, a quick YouTube video of my gantry sliding back and forward on the rails. No tuning has been done to shim the double v wheels to the correct centre width, or to shim rail heights, but I'm really happy with the ease of rolling and the sound of the movement.

Gantry and rails first test of movement on rails
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  #47  
Old Tue 07 October 2014, 07:34
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Dale, that's a very interesting point. Now that you mention it, I've also had much better luck with cheap taps. Largely, it's when working freehand in soft materials (mild steel and aluminum). Perhaps the advantages of the harder taps show up under more controlled conditions and harder materials.
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  #48  
Old Tue 07 October 2014, 07:37
Fox
Just call me: Fox
 
Amsterdam
Netherlands
Sorry to hear of all your difficulties with the grinding. Seeing your skills with the table etc, and reading you've seen all the tricks it really makes me wonder why it became so difficult to grind even the flat part.

I mean, it's still not really a fun job, but with my makita cheap grinder ( 500 watt) held buy the grinder ficture and a good 1mm cutting disc, and the right pressure ( not pressing, just sliding, many strokes before you cust trough ) it went perfectly fine.
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  #49  
Old Tue 07 October 2014, 14:13
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
You're right Fox. I think I was just too aggressive with the cutting. I found the grinding experience really frustrating and the more frustrated I became with the process the more aggressive I got with it. I'm just really glad I'm past it with my own solution.
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  #50  
Old Tue 07 October 2014, 14:21
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
Regarding the taps, taps are brittle, common HSS is less brittle than carbide or somehow enhanced HSS taps. So a cheaper tap works better but wears quicker.
M4 are really small and delicate taps so they don't work well with battery drill but you really got skill I used M8 tap for hundreds of holes with cordless drill and it was a pleasure.
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  #51  
Old Tue 07 October 2014, 14:53
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Good to see another Aussie machine coming together. Hated doing my rails as well, have a heap of spare/old angle as a result. Vee rail is on my upgrade list.
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  #52  
Old Tue 07 October 2014, 22:14
isladelobos
Just call me: Ros
 
Canary Islands
Spain
Send a message via MSN to isladelobos Send a message via Yahoo to isladelobos
Clean sound !!. Nice hardened rails, the best option.
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  #53  
Old Wed 08 October 2014, 22:07
hevertg
Just call me: Hevert
 
maracaibo
Venezuela
Hello, you're doing great friend
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  #54  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 21:07
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
Has anyone got prices on gas struts I just got quoted $575au and nearly fell over.
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  #55  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 21:43
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
AU$575 is a complete rip-off.
You should check-up RS-component site I do remember they have an .AU site.
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  #56  
Old Mon 27 October 2014, 22:01
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Dale, no fricken way anyone would pay that much. Go here: http://www.lifteasy.com/ these guys are brilliant and have had my 2 purchases to me within 2 days of ordering over the phone. Total for each plus postage was around $39.00

Just tell them what you want in terms of length, charge and ends and they will make one up for you. I went with one of the 8/18 struts with the ends at 6mm
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  #57  
Old Tue 28 October 2014, 02:35
Tom Ayres
Just call me: Tom #117
 
Bassett (VA)
United States of America
I've got a deal for you! Only AU$499! Act Now, Today Only... Ha Ha
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  #58  
Old Tue 28 October 2014, 03:48
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
Ok got a gas spring coming Lift easy. $39. Thanks for the tip!
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  #59  
Old Tue 28 October 2014, 04:58
alan254
Just call me: Al #95
 
mystic ct
United States of America
Have a new gas shocks for sale it is a Macmaster –Carr
#9416K181 20 lb will sell for $10.

Thanks Al
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  #60  
Old Wed 29 October 2014, 04:44
Duds
Just call me: Dale
 
Canberra
Australia
Time for progress report

Works on MM going really well I'm enjoying the build more and more.

X table is mostly complete except for welding on cable management. I have chosen to paint as I go so that I don't need to disassemble to paint later and this is working out to be a good strategy. I have needed to hit som spots with a flapper disk to weld on a cable bracket here or there but these spots are easily touched up and don't show.

My outside mounted v-rail worked really well. I was worried that the rack would not mount well to the rail/rail mount surface but the 3M tape does an excellent job of catering to minor surface irregularities. It sticks. My rail method did lead to changes in the design.

First the v-rails are all 22mm because that's the height of standard size 3 rail. This is down from the standard ground angle design height of 28mm. And causes clearance problems with the gantry stopper blocks. I shortened my stopper blocks on the gantry to 15mm to allow for Y car clearance above the stopper blocks.

Second the idler roller does not meet the bottom of the rails due to the lower car ride height. The stub axle hits the y car frame. I used a round file to cut a half moon shape into the y car frame. But you could also increase the outside diameter of the idler bearing. I think this might be a better solution but I did not look at buying another bearing because I was impatient to get it working. Interestingly, my pinion and motor shaft clear fine and no mods on the drive side were required.

My gantry had some twist or something. There's no twist on the top where the y car runs but there's <1mm on on corner of the gantry where wheel does not meet rail and you can rock the gantry diagonally from corner to corner. I solved this problem with a round file and slightly elongated on of the wheel axle holes to bring the wheel down to the rail. Now all runs smoothly.

My Z axis went well. I think practice makes perfect and by the time I got to the X I had already gotten into a good groove with the x table and gantry. No mods to Z.

I have mounted all my proxies and started to mount stop/start stations. I'm also working on the motor mounts and setting up the spring loading etc. My gas spring for Z arrived today from easy lift. Super fast as I only ordered yesterday.

I thought I might comment a little on the controls interface relay discussion here. My field controls will all be 24v and I have interface relays in my box. In my experience, in very dirty environments, it has always been good practice to use higher voltages for controls whilst trying to stay away from dangerous voltages. In mining we always used 110v. The reason is that higher voltages are better at 'wiping' clean contact surfaces in contractors and contact blocks for push buttons. OEM equipment with lower voltage controls often suffered from welding contacts due to dirty contact surfaces and were modified to 110v. 12v was particularly bad.i don't really expect the machine and environment but have used this experience to guide my choices.

Lesson Learned
Avoid tuning alignment and fine detail adjustment when tired after having worked on the machine all day. It has been said before by many. I wasted two hours chasing a problem in my x axis rails. And eventually went to bed, the next morning I discovered the problem in my gantry wheel heights almost immediately and had it fixed just as fast.

I'll post some photos next post.

Btw obviously my MM is MM blue and my rails and brackets are machine grey.
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