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  #31  
Old Tue 11 December 2007, 15:31
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Brad, You are just a kid. I went back to school and got a BS in Computer Science when I was in my 40s and I am now getting ready to build a MechMate 20 years later. You have plenty of time to be thinking about a mid-life change.
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  #32  
Old Tue 11 December 2007, 15:38
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
My random thoughts of the day:
1) Control Box Placement: I've been looking at other table builds. My plan is to attach the power/motor controller box to the side or under the main table itself in some form to improve the portability of the table. I'd like to be able to reposition it around the garage based on what space is available at the moment. Also, as I am a student living with my parents atm, once I'm independantly living again, I'll be moving the table. Are there any good examples of where to mount the box on the table, and preferable places because of dust and chip issues?

2) Leveling Casters: Does anyone have any first hand knowledge or use of leveling casters in thier design? Leveling casters would make my table mobile, yet I'd be able to level the table again after repositioning. Something like this: http://www.atlascasters.com/index.php/LCO

3) Articulated Arm: I'm wanting to put the Control Computer case on an articulated arm off of the table keeping in theme with me wanting my implementation to be portable and all-in-one without wall mounted or external items off on other tables. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions on this?

Last edited by BHawthorne; Tue 11 December 2007 at 15:51..
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  #33  
Old Tue 11 December 2007, 18:48
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Brad....things to consider.
- box under or near side invites dust. If you want to see what yucky things happen when dust comes in contact with the controller, just wait. I will post pics next week when I visit my old MultiCAM machine. It needs new cards - again. Ask Doug....I think I convinced him to put his on the wall like Geralds!
- leveling casters a great idea. Make sure after each move you really do level the machine. The CNC is like a piano....she likes to stay in tune.
ALSO - after each move you will want to resurface your salvage/spoil board. Moving the table causes changes in the surface and you will never repeat the level you had before.....so resurface and make a new flat plane if you do move.
- I am putting a TOUCHSCREEN monitor only off my table. Computer will be in the dust free office on the other side of the wall. Yes, I am actually using a dual monitor support so the table has the touch screen but the work station has a standard CRT on the desk.
Just my 2 cents.
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  #34  
Old Tue 11 December 2007, 18:57
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Ah good points.

- How much heat does the motor controller box put off in a typical setup? Would it be possable to keep the case air tight and offset the issues with a heatsink/120mm fan setup on the back of the case? I've seen some pretty ugly electronics cleaning out some computers. I can only imagine how some industrial shop machine electronic boxes would look as I'm only familiar with office types of issues -- which are bad enough.

- I realized there would be level issues after each move, but I have no expereince with moving gantry tables. I've only seen knee mills and VMCs moved via forklifts and the issues leveling them up again afterwards.

Last edited by BHawthorne; Tue 11 December 2007 at 19:02..
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  #35  
Old Tue 11 December 2007, 19:07
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
- look at the Original MM box (and mine posted today) It's a nema 4/12 sealed box with internal fan for circulation of air from the space "behind" the backplane.

This movement of air is plenty to dissipate the heat load. You will see the 5" muffin fan located behind the heatsink in both boxes for this very reason.

I can't find the thread right now, but the actual BTU discussion and such from Mariss @ gecko and Gerald on proving the sealed box was fine and more than adequate.

Mike R mentioned today in your other post that heat in the box isn't as big as one would assume. Today's technology and properly sized components will yield a low heat load on the driver/cabinet side. The proof is in the pudding. The Original MM machine has been running "many" years with no issues in a sealed cabinet. (note: mounted on the wall away from dust)
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  #36  
Old Tue 11 December 2007, 20:49
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
- One question on enclosure size. I saw Gerald_D's enclosure is 21.65x15.75x8.66". What size enclosure did you end up using? I have my eye on a NEMA 4&12 case that is 20x16x8. I just need to make sure that everything will be fine in that size. So far I have purchased the 4 G203V, the PMDA-122 and a few e-stops and mometary switches only. I've yet to figure out the source for power supply yet. If it's any help I'm looking to power from standard US residential wiring if possable. Can I go even smaller or should I go larger on the enclosure? What issues arise if I go smaller/larger?

Last edited by BHawthorne; Tue 11 December 2007 at 20:56..
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  #37  
Old Tue 11 December 2007, 23:03
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Hi Brad

Going smaller may cause problems with getting everything to fit in neatly and reduces the heat dissipation ability, a bigger case allows for any further expansion and or modifications (we all know we are going to do those!) and gives the heat a better chance to dissipate. As the old saying goes: There's no substitute for (more) cubic inches
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  #38  
Old Tue 11 December 2007, 23:32
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Understandable. My personal favorite saying from school is "measure twice, cut once". Getting measurements wrong makes things costly. That saying comes to mind for this instance too. I'll definitely be not going smaller on the case.

I do like how things fit in the 20x16x8 case size so far by looking at pictures. I tentatively think I'll go with 24x16x10 to give it more breathing room for air curculation within the case. It's $10 difference in price between the 2.

Last edited by BHawthorne; Tue 11 December 2007 at 23:43..
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  #39  
Old Wed 12 December 2007, 04:10
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
I just read the "Mains power wiring for discussion" thread http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316 . There is so much technical stuff in that I'm thoroughly confused where to start.

I need some help making sense of that thread, so I can formulate a shopping list. I plan on running my system on US residential 110V. How much of each of the items in that thread do I need? I couldn't nail down an exact number of each item I needed. I also need to figure out my power supply source too. The current plan is that I will purchase 4 PK296A2A-SG7.2 for the motors. I think part of my problem is I don't understand how to read wiring schematics. It's almost like I'm in school relearning GD&T all over again.

My goal is to get everything purchased this week, so I can do my wiring of the control box next week and hopefully get to the point where I can do the "kitchen table" test next week too.

Last edited by BHawthorne; Wed 12 December 2007 at 04:14..
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  #40  
Old Wed 12 December 2007, 05:32
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Brad,
My box is 20" x 30" x 7" - decided on due to 5 gecko width (FYI) I would get the 8" deep box next time for more vertical cable separation.

Bigger really helps when you start laying out connections and Breathing room. Plus, air volume in the sealed cabinet.

Additionally, I was able to keep cable paths comfortably away from each other or make 90 degree cable passes without a YOGA degree.
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  #41  
Old Wed 12 December 2007, 07:43
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
In reading up, I've decided on a small change in motors I pick. I'm going to go with the PK296B2A-SG7.2 instead. That'll leave my options open in the future should I want to convert to a closed-loop system. ATM, I'm definitely going open-loop because I already purchased the PMDX-122. I like the idea of being able to go either way should in the future closed-loop setups become the "in thing" for MechMate. No need for me to look into encoder options or closed-loop breakout boards atm though. I figure I'll do well to limit my costs, but leave options open to add stuff as needed at a later date.

Last edited by BHawthorne; Wed 12 December 2007 at 07:46..
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  #42  
Old Wed 12 December 2007, 16:02
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
It's official - We're all nuts...Macadamia nuts...LOL

Something came in the mail today. Gecko G203V's and some macadamia nuts...hehe. I was unaware theat vampire geckos liked to eat macadamia nuts.

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  #43  
Old Thu 13 December 2007, 16:31
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Arrived Parts List: (12/13/2007)
PMDX-122 Breakout Board (www.pmdx.com): $88
4 Geckodrive G203V (www.geckodrive.com): $492 (on sale)

Parts I had sitting around:
Hubbard CNC Printer Port Protector (www.ebay.com): $29
Hubbard CNC Plasma/Router Relay Control (www.ebay.com): $40
ASUS M2NBP-VM CSM nVidia Quadro NVS 210S M-ATX AM2 Mobo: $44
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600+ Brisbane 1.9GHz AMD Dual-Core Processor: $52
2 256MB DDR2 Ram (www.ebay.com): $10 (from a random auction)
570W PSU (CompUSA): $old (no idea)



Last edited by BHawthorne; Thu 13 December 2007 at 17:00..
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  #44  
Old Mon 24 November 2008, 13:43
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Small update, after shelving this project because of work and school for a year. I'm back at it again. No change in plans as far as size of table. I'm still shooting for a 5'x5'. I hope to have more info to post soon. My goal is to push forward with building the table in December.

Reading through the thread it looks like I never posted that I got 2 of the 4 PK296B2A-SG7.2 so far. The other 2 are my next big purchase I guess. That way I can table test everything and work out the electronics side before diving into working on the table hardware.


Last edited by BHawthorne; Mon 24 November 2008 at 14:02..
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  #45  
Old Mon 24 November 2008, 15:31
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Quick question on the PK296 gearheads. The spec sheets call the gearheads the SH series, but I can't find any SH series gearheads on the orientalmotors catalog site. Do they go by a different gearhead name when seperate from the stepper? Will a Vexta GFB gearhead work ok as a substitute?

Last edited by BHawthorne; Mon 24 November 2008 at 15:39..
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  #46  
Old Mon 24 November 2008, 19:46
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Welcome back Brad!

The SH gearheads are not available as loose gearheads (without a motor). The reason is that they rely on the motor shaft having its gear teeth cut directly into it. See: What does a stepper motor look like inside? (geared Oriental Motor) Those motor/gearbox combinations are specially mated together.
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  #47  
Old Tue 25 November 2008, 05:26
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
Welcome back Brad!

The SH gearheads are not available as loose gearheads (without a motor). The reason is that they rely on the motor shaft having its gear teeth cut directly into it. See: What does a stepper motor look like inside? (geared Oriental Motor) Those motor/gearbox combinations are specially mated together.
Ah ok, I knew there had to be some reason. I got curious and looked at one of the PK296B2A-SG7.2 I have. I only noticed the teeth on the shaft then. Good stuff to know because I was assuming the PK29601AB had the same shaft as the PK296B2A-SG7.2. I see some PK296 on eBay is why I was pondering down that route.

Looking at the math of the materials, about how much would I save by doing a 5x5 table instead of a 5x10? Is the materials cost that much different? I'm pondering the merit of going 5x10. Space is a minor issue, but not a real problem. Initially I wanted to do 5x5 and put it in my basement for year around work. Currently the unfinished basement is just used for storage, but it has plenty of room to be used as a shop. 5x10 would make it harder for me to move if I changed houses, but I saw that a few people are making bolt together MechMate tables. That might be my answer to the 5x10 in basement.

Reading my post it seems like pretty dumb questions, but imho I need to ask these questions so I don't make a mistake down the road on the build.

Last edited by BHawthorne; Tue 25 November 2008 at 05:49..
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  #48  
Old Tue 25 November 2008, 07:44
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
A little back of the envelope sketching suggests to me that you'll save about 30% on the steel, and a few bucks on the racks and wires. For me, that would have amounted to $300-$400. I went full size after much deliberation.

What finally shifted my decision as a hobbyist with a semi-pro double garage woodshop was my realization that I could toss plywood across the MM rails when it wasn't in use, and recover the space as assembly and clamping tables. I also ended up using the steel scraps to fabricate an overhead rack over part of the MM, and thus I had a slight net gain in workable shop space when all was said and done. Note that I had extra steel scraps due to some early errors.

I'm extremely happy with my bolt together design; I can disassemble into 2 sides, 2 ends (with the 2 end-most table support channels as part of them), 2 beams with rails and racks, the table surface (with or without the other six table support channels), and the gantry assembly. Each piece comes in under 150 lbs and can be comfortably moved by two people, and cleverly moved by one. Also, the component pieces will maneuver comfortably through standard doors and stairwells, as long as you have swing space for the 10'.

Note that I fabricated by bolt together by bolting all the bolt together points, and then welding the welded parts to them. There was some welding distortion that created tension and alignment issues after disassembly. If I were doing it again, I'd drill the bolt holes after the welding, which will have it's own set of different issues.

Good luck with your build, and enjoy every minute!
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  #49  
Old Tue 25 November 2008, 08:09
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradm View Post
A little back of the envelope sketching suggests to me that you'll save about 30% on the steel, and a few bucks on the racks and wires. For me, that would have amounted to $300-$400. I went full size after much deliberation.
Hrrrm, twice the functional cutting area for only $300-400 more. That makes it an easy decision imho. $400 isn't much considering the overall cost of the project.
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  #50  
Old Tue 25 November 2008, 09:02
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
For entertainment value, here's a pic of my other project. I'd like to be able to eventually cut sheetmetal on my MechMate to help restore this for display:

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  #51  
Old Tue 25 November 2008, 18:58
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Earlier today I put in an order for Joe's laser cut and bend parts. Reading the thread about them sold me on getting the parts there. I look forward to receiving them in the next few weeks.
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  #52  
Old Tue 25 November 2008, 23:05
Lex
Just call me: Johan #56
 
Empangeni KwaZuluNatal
South Africa
Hi Brad,
Which aircraft is that? I do not regonise it straight of. I used to work on military aircraft in the 70's. They say when aircraft and ships gets into your blood it never goes away!
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  #53  
Old Wed 26 November 2008, 00:17
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
That looks like it could be a Voodoo??, early sixties maybe (Its true what you say Johan - ex SAAF myself)
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  #54  
Old Wed 26 November 2008, 00:45
Lex
Just call me: Johan #56
 
Empangeni KwaZuluNatal
South Africa
I did my apprenticeship with Atlas (now Denel) as a instrument mechanic 1973-1975, and now I am battling to wire a control panel!
I worked on Impala, Mirage 3, Aloette, Super Frelon and Puma, aircraft and choppers.
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  #55  
Old Thu 27 November 2008, 18:53
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Just ordered the last 2 PK296B2A-SG7.2 I needed for the build. I need to dig around the thread to find a good shopping list to complete my box for the table top test.

So far I have my PMDX-122, 4 G203V and 4 PK296B2A-SG7.2. They will be used on a 5x10ft table design. I'm switching over from 5x5 because it just makes more sense. I would like to be able to plug this system into regular US 110V home power. With that in mind, what Antek power supply should I order?
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  #56  
Old Fri 28 November 2008, 09:04
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Brad,
Why not order a toroidal transformer, bridge and capacitor from somewhere like www.partsexpress.com and build it yourself?


Transformers.
http://www.parts-express.com/webpage...ctGroup_ID=605

Bridge Rectifier
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=050-060

Capacitors

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/636/720.pdf

http://www.newark.com/95F4457/passiv...6da153f050al2a

http://www.tedss.com/item.asp?id=2020002403

http://www.tedss.com/item.asp?id=2020002774
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  #57  
Old Fri 28 November 2008, 09:23
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHawthorne View Post
. . . . . what Antek power supply should I order?
Brad, in case you havn't seen it yet, your post spawned a thread last night:
Which Antek power supply for 4x PK296B2A-SG7.2, 4x G203V, PMDX-122 and 110VAC at home
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  #58  
Old Fri 28 November 2008, 09:33
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
Brad, in case you havn't seen it yet, your post spawned a thread last night:
Which Antek power supply for 4x PK296B2A-SG7.2, 4x G203V, PMDX-122 and 110VAC at home
Ah thanks.
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  #59  
Old Fri 28 November 2008, 17:51
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
I went "window shopping" today at The Yard Store. They're a surplus metals yard. I think I'll be able to get most of what I need from there for the table. They have bearings, springs and all the other stuff I need pretty cheap. It's also a benifit that it's local for me.

Random photos I shot today with my iphone. No real meaning to what is in the photos other than to show they have a lot of stuff...lol.


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  #60  
Old Wed 03 December 2008, 14:05
BHawthorne
Just call me: Brad
 
Wichita, KS
United States of America
I just got notification that my laser cut and bend parts have shipped.
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