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  #1  
Old Sat 27 August 2011, 21:35
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
Need help with jog speed in Mach3 motor tuning !!!

Hi, I am need of some assistance from the group mind.

I have got my machine running around but not cutting yet.
I went into the shop today to tune the motors and set steps per movement.
Set the steps as per the step spreadsheet on this forum and got pefect measurements as far as I can tell so far.
I then set the speed and accel , I am in mm motors ran and sounded good as high as 9000-10000 and accell about 500.

The problem is when I save my settings and go to jog or run one of the sample files, the machine is not responding .
Meaning it is leaping about , motors running rough.
When I jog at half speed it is rough sounding 100% jogging gives same results as running a file.

Shouldn,t at least the 100% jog speed be as smooth as the motor tuning setup.

Any assistance much appreciated.

Andrew
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  #2  
Old Sun 28 August 2011, 01:12
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
what motion control software are you using?
Read the manual & everything will be there.
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  #3  
Old Sun 28 August 2011, 01:41
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
As in the question , am using mach3 .
Nothing mentioned in the manual about discrepency between settings in motor tuning and actual running / jogging of the machine.
It probably is a simple software issue , but for the life of me I cannot find a reference to a similar issue.


My first port of call was the manual , was just hoping that someone has had experience with a similar issue.

Andrew
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  #4  
Old Sun 28 August 2011, 05:44
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
It might be computer issue, had one IBM Intel 3.0, it was working ok but when running had strange "clicks" during motion.
Also some had problems with BOB or LPT cable resistance, search the forum I cant find exact thread.
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  #5  
Old Sun 28 August 2011, 06:16
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
Thanks for the suggestion , but not sure about it being the computer.
I should have been a bit more detailed.
Upon first getting the machine moving without tuning the motors for correct steps etc, I was able to run code / jog no problem. But only fairly slowly.
Upon tuning and setting the correct steps am I having issues.
The machine moves smoothly and sound great under motor tuning, but on exiting that dialog the machine doesn't move the same at all.
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  #6  
Old Sun 28 August 2011, 06:48
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Andrew

The values you have chosen are quite conservative at 10000 and 500 so it is unlikely that is your cause.
Note that Mach3 needs to be restarted before the motor tuning takes effect.
You might also think about increasing the kernel speed to 35000hz in Config, Ports and Pins if you are using a reasonable speed processor in your machine controller PC - a restart is also required here.
You might also wish to run the drivertest.exe file in the root directory of the Mach3 install to test that is working OK.
Double check the gear speed calculator and the steps you have entered in Mach3 on all axis including the slaved axis on the X.
Also double check the velocity and acceleration values are the same or at least what what you intended for each axis.
Note you must press the "Save Axis Settings" button for the values to stick.
Lastly sometimes a delay in the Step Pulse of 2us and 5 us in the Direction Pulse might settle things - these settings are also located in the motor tuning dialog in Mach3.

It's a start.

Regards
Ross
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  #7  
Old Sun 28 August 2011, 17:38
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
Thanks Ross

Have tried all your suggestions, no change.
Did the kernel speed test . Get a perfect as you can flatline at 25000hz or 35000hz.
I even bumped up the speed to see what would happen, under motor tuning I can run at almost 13000 on the Y axis and still sounds feels good.
Same deal, when I exit the motor tuning dialog ( making sure to save changes ) restarting, it wont jog or run code smoothly. I can jog at low % but even then sounds rough.

The readouts are corresponding to a correct amount of movement in mm, but its almost like its trying to get there too fast. I am wondering if its ( mach3 ) is running in inches somewhere and I am getting some sort of speed multiplier . Clutching at straws, but that is what it looks like. The motors are trying to move it too fast, that is what it looks like.

Any more suggestions would be much appreciated as this is frustrating to say the least.

Andrew
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  #8  
Old Sun 28 August 2011, 18:53
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
Just to add a bit more info.
Oriental motors 7.2 gearbox 36 tooth pinion module 1 rack. 203v geckos
Steps per mm set to 127.324.
speed 9000 accell 500 ( fairly conservative ).
Have tried jogging a single axis and that is still a no go.
Tried 25000hz and 35000hz. no difference

Thanks Andrew
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  #9  
Old Mon 29 August 2011, 01:41
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Rival,

You mentioned in your first post that you went into the shop to tune the motors. What does that mean to you?

Does that mean you changed the pot setting on the Gecko drives so that the motors actually sound or feel smooth?

If you are having a problem at a higher motor tuning value, slow things down and see if that makes a different.

Just a suggestion.
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  #10  
Old Mon 29 August 2011, 01:44
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
What Mach3 version are you running? Maybe its some test version?
Do you have any plugins installed?
Pendant?
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  #11  
Old Mon 29 August 2011, 22:32
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
At the pulling hair out frustration stage now !
Have tried downloading and installing a fresh latest mach3 . No change.
Gone over my earth wiring, changed printer cable.
Check wiring connections.
No plugins installed
No pendant.

Have released the springs so motors run free.
They seem to turn then lock up under jogging, releasing the key and starting again they turn then lock up.

But under the tuning dialog box they turn smooth as silk.

Any wild ideas ?

Running out of things to try

Andrew
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  #12  
Old Mon 29 August 2011, 23:08
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Did you clean your PC registry? Sometime the unknown junk in the PC can give endless hassles...
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  #13  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 01:32
Neil
Just call me: Neil
 
Tas
Australia
Hi Andrew
I do not know what I am talking about but are all the motors locking up if not maybe could be a faulty driver or wiring to driver, also I think it pays to have a computer just dedicated to mach 3 no other software

Regards Neil
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  #14  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 02:37
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
Cleaned the registry , no change to situation .
Computer is dedicated to machine , no internet connection.
Only other software is a trial version of aspire.
I dont think it is the drivers as the motors run fine under the tuning dialog as mentioned.
If I run code and slow the feedrate to a crawl it runs smoother, but I cannot imagine being any good at cutting much.
If I reduce the jog speed to 30% or so it moves around but still not as smooth as under the motor tuning section.

Anyone else got even the remotest sugestions.

Thanks Andrew
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  #15  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 02:42
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Have you tried the Mach support forums?
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  #16  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 03:34
Neil
Just call me: Neil
 
Tas
Australia
Hi Andrew
There is a fair bit of probably fairly relative information on artsoft site ie troubleshooting video. Here is the link
http://www.machsupport.com/videos/

Regards Neil
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  #17  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 03:42
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
Thanks, have made a post on there . See what they can come up with.
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  #18  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 03:51
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Hi Andrew

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of the Gecko tuning process you are using.
Makes that part a big blind spot for me.
Logically though, it is possible that the two processes eg tuning and machine movement are being driven by two different software applications.
Under that circumstance it is possible for one to run like a dream and the other to just refuse to work.

You have not yet provided specific information re ports and pins in Mach3, it is pretty common to screen shot or record these settings for others to sort through for you when problems occur.
Go to Ports and Pins, then record the details under the 3 tabs - Motor Outputs, Input Signals and Output Signals. The other three tabs generally work ok as per the Mach3 installation defaults.

To speed things up...
1. run and test on one axis only, preferably the Y axis with the single motor rather than look at the machine as a whole.
2. start disconnecting things like the VFD
3. reduce complexity where ever possible.

You will smile all the wider once it all works, sometimes walking away and fighting another day brings a fresh mind to the problem.

Regards
Ross
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  #19  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 11:15
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Can you post some pics of your control box? Also how are the ends of your cable runs teminated?
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  #20  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 19:16
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
More info

Hi, Here is a couple of pics of control box.
Also a vid showing difference between tuning running and jogging









http://s982.photobucket.com/albums/a...chjogissue.mp4


I have grounded all the shielding back to one point . All the connections to bob and geckos are crimped bootlace ferrules.
Check power at all points . geckos getting good 56v from power supply.
Bob getting good 5v from power supply.

The only odd thing ( may not be odd ) should the bob have any led that light up when the box supply is off and the printer cable is connected. I presumed this just indicated that was getting power.
But I thought I read another post about the bob getting power from the pc was bad.

Hope this all helps as got me stumped at present.

Had a few responses from the mach3 forum but nothing that has solved the problem.

One guy asked what the "time in int" was in the diagnostic page. I posted him the numbers, what should they be ?

The stray black wire is the limit switches which are not connected yet.
I have run grounds from the table/gantry/car back to common point.

Thanks Andrew

Enjoy the video !
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  #21  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 22:59
Neil
Just call me: Neil
 
Tas
Australia
Andrew
Did you manage to look at the trouleshooting video (see post 16 for link)

Regards Neil
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  #22  
Old Tue 30 August 2011, 23:29
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
By the sound of motor locking up I would only think of some mechanical error or low voltage PSU. It would not lock up like that by mach not working correctly, don't know why the difference in tuning dialogue and in program directly, but you should measure you PSU voltage while motor turning (pulling current from it) to see can it keep up with them. Also review the current settings on gecko that may have the same effect.
Motors stall like that usually when they are under powered (electronics or psu error) or too weakfor the task (mechanical).

p.s. I missed the nice toroidal transformer in the pictures, check the gecko resistors (for 3Amps its 35.25k or Orange-green-orange and it does not look like that in the pics), and try to eliminate that clicking mechanical sound.

Last edited by danilom; Tue 30 August 2011 at 23:39..
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  #23  
Old Wed 31 August 2011, 00:37
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
Danilo ,

Thanks for the thinking.
I checked the power supply while running multiple axis, no drop in voltage.
The resistors are .25w 47k 5% tolerance, which should be fine.
I dont think the motors are lacking power. If I run code and crank the feedrate down so it doesn,t move to crazy, I can lean all my weight on the gantry and has little effect/no effect on movement.

Andrew
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  #24  
Old Wed 31 August 2011, 00:40
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
I'm out of ideas for now.
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  #25  
Old Wed 31 August 2011, 00:59
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
Send a message via Yahoo to Kobus_Joubert Send a message via Skype™ to Kobus_Joubert
I have not followed all the threads in detail, but could it not be a similar problem that I had with Brad's machine.
Are you using all 8 wires from the stepper?
If you are using only 4 wires, are the other wires properly screened and isolated ?
Could it not be a problem that if these other motor wires are just touching each other while the gantry is moving this could act as a breaking system ?? Just a tought
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  #26  
Old Wed 31 August 2011, 01:24
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
Kobus, Thanks

Just went and triple checked, no stray wires touching .
Only 4 of six wires connected ( checked a gazillion times )

Andrew
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  #27  
Old Wed 31 August 2011, 04:12
rival
Just call me: rival
 
vic
Australia
Suggestions from the mach3 forum , seem to indicate it is most likely a computer issue. Likely the computer, which has an intergrated video card is not giving a good pulse stream.
Thinking is that under the tuning dialog the screen does not get refreshed, hence the motors run smoother. Once out of the dialog the video uses up too much cpu time.
That is the thinking, now to hunt down another computer ! not an easy task.

Andrew
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  #28  
Old Wed 31 August 2011, 04:19
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
Very reasonable answer, you can try maybe without new computer, there is a command to turn off toolpath display (that is usually what consumes graphic or cpu time)
Ger21 has it in Mach 2010 screenset. Try to find that command it may help diagnose faster.
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  #29  
Old Wed 31 August 2011, 04:31
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Are the wires shielded for step and direction? (I see red wires going to ground for the motors) I would also unbundle the step/direction and motor drive wires until you are sure you are not getting cross talk. You may even want to backup a few steps and pull your motors and use short cables from the Gecko drives and do a "Kitchen Table" test at this point.
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  #30  
Old Wed 31 August 2011, 04:41
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Give us a pic of how your motors are wired.
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