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  #301  
Old Fri 30 January 2015, 06:04
normand blais
Just call me: Normand
 
montreal
Canada
Hé Robert are you sure sure there is no piece of shirt still stock in the gears?
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  #302  
Old Tue 03 February 2015, 16:13
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
It reminds me of resonance and even though it is most likely not the case. It will be interesting to see your findings. Out of curiosity, did you try different spindle speeds and what were the results at the same feed rate?
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  #303  
Old Tue 03 February 2015, 20:01
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Hi Guys….
Sorry for delaying my reply.
It been said ( and I agree / follow this)….better say nothing than….nothing worth !
I’ve been running in order to meet a deadline on a commission work, witch therefore, I’ve haven’t taking the “appropriate” time that I’d like for troubleshooting the beast !
Although I haven’t done the “Gerald motor test” yet, nor the manual move test suggested by Russell, I’ve look closely to the scallops a few time since, to notice that if I aligned & stack the board ( those seen in the pic), all the scallop marks are at the same location, which leads me thinking, It has to be else than mechanical …since the board were not resisted ( placed) on a common (identical) staring point ( 0.0) !?!
Later on, latest this next weekend, I’ll do all the “mechanical” test and come back with my finding…
should be interesting !!

THANKS you all for taking some time to help me sort this out…I really appreciate !
Later

PS to Pete ; No, unfortunately, when cutting those, the spindle was set the same for all ( 19K)
And….NORM !!.....DARN….that is interesting….I should look this up
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  #304  
Old Tue 03 February 2015, 23:24
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Robert, take your time . . . this subject is already about 20 years old
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  #305  
Old Tue 17 February 2015, 10:37
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Well….here’s a 1st review where I’m at with this. ( sorry for more detail then needed, but….I feel I had to !! )

1st of, some delay for few work reason plus….my Betsy’s computer kinda give me some head spin and a hart race !!
After +/- a week being out of work (Betsy that is), when I tried to start & boot her for this test, well….she simply refused to give me an eye blink, could hear the hard drives & CPU fan, but……..no screen !
DARN…. !!
So here I go in " computer" trouble shooting, and, since I don’t do this daily, I had to un-rust some of my “getting” older sort of…. knowledge !
Finally, after some time, it only took removing the memory card (2 DDR) from the slots and back on in order to get her ( the screen) looking at me again…..lovely ;0))…but lost some time….and had none left to pursuit that day !

BTW it got me thinking, if this is another culprit to come, then I must look at a substitute soon, as this board, memory cards & so on is maybe “fairly” young in runtime, but still has over 5yr in calendar time !!....witch mean, very hard to get some replacement parts & motherboard if anything goes with this one ;-( !!

Wondering with what in mind, if I should substitute my set up ?
Raspberry Pi2 ?.....or anther board + chipset + memory card, so on…. set up

Anyhow…..
Back at this….let’s call it ….the motor “Gerald” test !

Humm…not so simple to do in order to get some constant results….while trying to “pinch” the pinions!
I only drop the motors by removing the tension spring, so I could let the bolt assembly holding the motors for me, freeing at least one of my hands.
Realise soon this is not going to be as simple I initially though…..by me self, alone…trying to grab two axis ( X & Y ) at the same time, while also staying alert, constant awareness of the Mach screen so I know ( and adjust if necessary) where is the program going…..so on !
Simply put, a chore doing it alone….

While I’m twisting my self-trying to do this…..My ears are picking something….NOT NORMAL !....
I soon realise that I’m having an issue with motor#2 on axis X ??
Oh-ho…what now ??
So…I go in troubleshooting for this “no motion axis”….to later, few hrs later where I’m having a very hard time to find time….to find out I’ve got a loose connection !
So….fix that to make sure I get good motor motion.
But, you gest right…this must be my initial “scallops” cause / trouble maker ??

So….all this long thread to give respect back to Gerald & all others who cared, helped and gave me advise…..I’m willing ( hopping soon) to give some time for this “Gerald” motion test, but, I 1st must give some trial / test to my “corrected” situation to see if I have ( still have) some “scallop” issue !
Have been commission to produce some upcoming doors where I’ll need “all Betsy’s” ability & capabilities ( over 50 of them)!
I think it’s going to be a good opportunity to see end results (acceptable or no scallops).

Gerald,…do you think there is still something to pick up from ( feel while trying to pinch) and to learn from this, even if I get very little scallops after all ?

Later….and thks again !
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  #306  
Old Tue 17 February 2015, 12:54
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Let's think about this for a while . . . . . before making some conclusion.

I do believe it is always useful to put your hand in parts of the the machine and feel what is going on. . . . . . .

Thanks very much for the feedback!
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  #307  
Old Tue 17 February 2015, 13:13
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Not to push in any form, but it got me very interested in this motion "feeling" thing, Gerald
The part that is very hard with "regular" type pliers is " Then grab the pinion with a pliers to put on some load. "....with out "locking" the motor
I'll try to find "soon" some of those pliers with a kind of nilon boot over the gaw, some thing like thses
Coz I fell with out some "ease" of slippage, it's very sensible between loading it and locking the pinion, witch locks the motor ??
Thanks for your interest and....presence
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  #308  
Old Thu 02 July 2015, 14:48
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Sculpting more then ever.... ;0))

Hi guys….

Been quite a while since I gave some follow up on stuff made with my MM !
Must say, I’ve been very busy doing lots of stuff around my ongoing “new home & shop” project…..and mixing all this with the need to take (lots) time fishing for new customers. Not as easy these past few yrs….and surly that goes for many !

Anyhow, hers a few pics of some of my latest interesting and learning “adventure” to say the least !!

this is one measuring 800 x 925mm machied area.

Travail de l'artiste....à l'ordi-RT_resize.jpg

IMG_0637_resize.JPG

Screen shot when compled ONLY the last finish pass ( 0.125" ball at 7% stepover).....
Total time ( Z-relief and 1st roughing pass W/ 0.375 ball ) was +/- 20hr....


IMG_0624.rtJPG_resize.jpg

Example -vue1_resize.jpg

IMG_0647_resize.JPG


Also been doing a few "custom" bred boards.....
This is the back side of one of them.

Dos de plache à découpé_resize.jpg

AND...
A long waited new "upcoming" not completed ...dust shoe

IMG_0601_resize.JPG

PS to Gerald….
I’ve had since last purchase new set of gear and a new set of rack, witch as fallen in the….wait pile for some time, but, hoping to find (take) time to upgrade and give back some of my findings.

AND to our US friends.....all the best on your 4th july !!...

Later,
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  #309  
Old Thu 02 July 2015, 14:51
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Beautifully done
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  #310  
Old Fri 28 August 2015, 00:52
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Just had to break this.....silence latly !
WHAT'S COOKING GUYS ?!?!
no more....posting
Is there another....reunion somewhere, and I'm not invited !?

O-well....
I'll break this showing what's been happening in w/m BB !

Her's the customer ( contractor) original demo on what I had to base on to make 4 other different size
20150211_110706_resize.jpg

for a total of 45 doors, that's 90 panels, machined both sides.....nice commission order after all...

Her's a the start :

20150827_211631_resize.jpg 20150827_211710_resize.jpg

20150827_211656_resize.jpg

So....who else got some thing going on ?!?....
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  #311  
Old Fri 28 August 2015, 01:48
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Nice job Robert, I assume that is MDF?
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  #312  
Old Fri 28 August 2015, 01:56
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
That is a nice production money earner - well done
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  #313  
Old Fri 28 August 2015, 03:54
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Thks Gerald & Alan.

Yes Alan, that is.....hurrg...MDF !
Even with good dust collection, it just....magnetize to everything !!
Got make a living....and keep Betsy....busy
What new with your betsy ??
Later
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  #314  
Old Fri 28 August 2015, 06:20
jhiggins7
Just call me: John #26
 
Hebron, Ohio
United States of America
Bon jour, Robert. Nice ice breaker. Thanks. I also regret that the forum seems to have fallen silent.

Question: Why did your customer need "custom" panels? Unique sizes? Very specific design requirement? And, are you responsible for cutting and assembling the whole door (45 times) or just cutting the unique panels?

We always appreciate your contributions to the forum.
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  #315  
Old Fri 28 August 2015, 18:01
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Hi John !!

Ya....It seem this forum needs some.....orientation aside showing or exchanging on building a nice machine.
But that's another topic by it self !
Although, it is nice to know there is a bunch of "friends", sharing the same ( almost) machine setup and therefore, making us less vulnerable with it !! and been able to come to some....rescue when in need !!
I've learned ALLOT here !!

My customer is another woodworking shop who has this contractor looking for this design with yes, some specifics dimensions and some little mods inspired from the turquoise demo door !
But mostly, it seem to be difficult getting this type around here !?!
I'm only commission to machine those grooves (coves) all these panels faces, no assembly , no other parts....for now !!
Did some MDF before, but never sooooo much in a little time !!
Hate it more then ever !!....it's nasty and it clings to everything, very static sh#%& !!!
I've been solicitation allot of other small & medium woodworking shops to sell my machining time and it's slowly getting some commission orders !!!

But this production is pushing my Betsy ( and me too) to some limits and showing some true hidden weekness never seen before

cheers
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  #316  
Old Fri 28 August 2015, 18:04
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Bonjour John
long time I've read about you !!
How's your baby doing ??

Ya....It seem this forum needs some.....orientation aside showing or exchanging on building a nice machine.
But that's another topic by it self !
Although, it is nice to know there is a bunch of "friends", sharing the same ( almost) machine setup and therefore, making us less vulnerable with it !! and been able to come to some....rescue when in need !!
I've learned ALLOT here !!

My customer is another woodworking shop who has this contractor looking for this design with yes, some specifics dimensions and some little mods inspired from the turquoise demo door !
But mostly, it seem to be difficult getting this type around here !?!
I'm only commission to machine those grooves (coves) all these panels faces, no assembly , no other parts....for now !!
Did some MDF before, but never sooooo much in a little time !!
Hate it more then ever !!....it's nasty and it clings to everything, very static sh#%& !!!
I've been solicitation allot of other small & medium woodworking shops to sell my machining time and it's slowly getting some commission orders !!!

But this production is pushing my Betsy ( and me too) to some limits and showing some true hidden weekness never seen before

cheers
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  #317  
Old Sat 29 August 2015, 01:42
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Unfortunately for the people who enjoy traditional woodwork, a CNC router is going to earn the most (or easiest) income while cutting boards, and most of these boards are synthetic "wood".

Our policy has been: Do not compete with your customer.

We do not offer any sanding, gluing, assembly, finishing . . . our customers, who came to us because they don't have CNC, trust us with their drawings/designs knowing that we will not compete in their business.

(Okay, it is not "we" any longer, my son has operated independently for many years already. But that business philosophy has also worked very well for me in other businesses. If you want the trust of a customer, show him you will not compete with him)
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  #318  
Old Sat 29 August 2015, 08:34
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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So true Gerald....so true.
Couldn't agree more with your Business Philo.

It's one thing I came to realize the "hard" way as when I solicits those other woodworking shops for my CNC cervices. I say the hard way as when I started soliciting I was quickly faced with some "hostility" if ever I presented my self as an experienced fine woodworker....it kinda....threw a "rock" on the atmosphere and my presentation.
Now, I present my self as a "business opportunity" offering openings and some simple solutions & possibilities. if needed, with my on going experience in this trade we can exchange & relate.....not compete....as you pointed !!
It's a fine line I try very hard not to cross so they do not feel.....I'm a threat or "impostor".... but a future opportunity for their "end of the month" !!
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  #319  
Old Sat 29 August 2015, 18:07
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
I have cut a lot of MDF and it not fun cutting. Yes it clogs up the dust collector and fills up the bag quickly.

I have not been able to connect to the right customers. Production is the key in my opinion. I will be interested in hearing about your progress and success.

I have a feeling that I am close to closing and selling my machine. It will be hard to part with it.
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  #320  
Old Sat 29 August 2015, 19:43
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Nils....
"I have a feeling that I am close to closing and selling my machine."
But why .....after all these yrs ?!?
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  #321  
Old Sat 29 August 2015, 19:59
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Nils, hope things start to turn for the better for you.
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  #322  
Old Sat 29 August 2015, 21:34
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Robert,

My age and I have not had much work. I have been paying for the shop with previous profits. It can not go on much longer.
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  #323  
Old Sat 29 August 2015, 21:47
racedirector
Just call me: Bruce #122
 
New South Wales
Australia
Robert, well done on securing the job, looks like your machine made short work of it.

A general question if I may.... how did you go about pricing this job? This is the sort of thing I want to start offering and am not sure of the pricing side.

Cheers
Bruce
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  #324  
Old Sun 30 August 2015, 00:48
hennie
Just call me: Hennie #23
 
Roodepoort JHB
South Africa
Hi All

Like Gerald mentioned do not compete with your clients.But what if your supplier competes with you and becomes direct competition to you and if they get the project they will still hand over the difficult work to you.The jobs that are to difficult to do with a skill saw and a jig saw.
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  #325  
Old Sun 30 August 2015, 01:08
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
I had that happen to me. I suggested a supplier of Acrylic to one of my clients and the supplier took the business away from me. The bid the jobs below cost. The supplier was part of a company that makes Acrylic.
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  #326  
Old Sun 30 August 2015, 13:06
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
Nils, have you thought about a website upgrade?
Unfortunately, business seems to no longer beat a path to our doors, but we must instead seek it out.
My area has more work than qualified people to do it, but if no one knows you exist and are capable of doing the work.....
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  #327  
Old Sun 30 August 2015, 15:18
pblackburn
Just call me: Pete #98
 
South-Central Pennsylvania
United States of America
Darren, funny you say that. A guy that helped me from the Vectric forum only sells on the net. Said that he tried the local scene and found that online sales is where it was at. He was from Texas.
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  #328  
Old Sun 30 August 2015, 16:11
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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in my opinion...and zillon others....the net is where we must be to make more sales....the palace where it's happening !!
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  #329  
Old Sun 30 August 2015, 19:24
darren salyer
Just call me: Darren #101
 
Wentzville mo
United States of America
I rarely do a thing, without consulting my best employee first. I trust his opinion tremendously. Perhaps you've heard of him...I've nicknamed him Google.
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  #330  
Old Mon 31 August 2015, 10:42
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Dear Bruce !

Aaa....the pricing "wall"...every one "hates" !!
What I came to with time is some scale allowing me to start some basics.
I will not disclose the prices I charge, not I want to keep does "secretives" it only make sens as it is a "recipe" to each individual costs !

Basically, I start be calculating the linear inches needed to be machined.
2.5D is one price and 3D is about....that, 2½ to 3x more !
Then, I add programming fees & charges, if they apply as some have their own CAD models.
Then, there's the CNC programing fees ( G-code generating) and all other fees that can be involves and/or ask for.
Set up fees
In shop intervention fees
dost collection "assle" fees
Tools fees ( resharpening or new )
Tooling ( other then spindle / router bits )
.....and on, and on.....till you cover all cost.
Make a margin on all those extras your comfortable to ask for ( in this day & age of economics, lean fees the only way to ask for.....greed will lead you to....well....left out ! ).
Bear in mind, each and every individual has a perception of cost, meaning, find stratégic quesitons to understand what you "prospoet" client is willing to pay for what he's asking for......I know, I know....some will only ask for a quote and will not disclose how fare their willing to pay, but....that life quoting !!...

Will Bruce...and others.....Hope my time sharing this will give some basic "business" guidance to some new venture....or veterans .....

All the best.....and never be afraid to ask....never assume as most know, assume can mean....:
When you assume what a customer whants......you will inevitably make an "ASS" of "U" and..."ME" ( U= the client, ME= you, the seller) !

Bonne chance to all...later
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