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-   -   Nice Welds - Reno, NV (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2805)

jessyjames Mon 17 May 2010 14:09

Nice Welds - Reno, NV
 
Best just to start on a new build here. So to get started again I will simply ask some folks what they would prefer on getting their parts cut from:

1. Laser cut parts
Or
2. Water jet parts

The reason I am asking is that I ran into a fabricator who has a water jet machine and he can cut up to 6" of steel. My new fabricator friend says that the water jet might be the better way to go rather than laser cut... but he did say that laser cut is just as good.

Any comments on which way to go? I have to draw the mechmate plans in autocad and give it to him in .dxf format to help me cut down on the cost of the labor.

Anyways thanks for reading and I can wait to get another machine up and running..

James

DocTanner Mon 17 May 2010 15:34

I had mine lasercut from a company in Oklahoma. I was impressed with the quality. Later I began having other stuff cut by a waterjet company in New Zealand. I have found no noticeable difference in the quality. Have him do a simple test piece. As for the .dxf 's perhaps Metalhead can help.

MetalHead Mon 17 May 2010 16:09

I have sets already made up and ready to go. These are top quality and I can have them to you in a few days.

Selling these kits is also one of the ways I am funding the site.

http://www.cvsupply.com/servlet/the-MechMate/Categories

I currently have 8 sets in stock and plenty of the other items listed on the sale site.

Mike

jessyjames Fri 21 May 2010 12:30

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Mike I will take you up on that offer in a little bit as I do want to help fund the Mechmate site as I feel it is only right.

So in the mean time I would like to have some opinions on a item I would like to purchase here. I know it is going to be overkill but I love tools and if it makes my job easier and quicker than I am all for it.

The item is a "Milwaukee 14" cold cut chop saw with a carbide blade. Has anyone used this kind of saw before and if you have could you tell me if it is a good thing to purchase. I know I could buy an abrasive saw but I dont want the mess and this is something that I think would be a nice addition to my small garage/shop.

Here is a description of the saw:

"6190-20 Milwaukee 14 in. Dry-Cut Machine The 6190-20 utilizes dry (a.k.a. "cold") cut technology which will cut on average three times faster than an abrasive machine and costs 1-1/2 times less to operate. The saw produces little to no sparks when cutting and leaves a virtually burr-free finish. The vise and back fence is tool free. The horizontal D-handle provides optimum comfort whether the tool is on the ground or sitting on a bench. Powerful 4.8 max HP motor, 15 amp motor (1,500 rpm) Tool-free fence and vise system Heavy-duty cast base Horizontal D-handle for optimum comfort Largest cutting capacity in class Cuts fast with virtually no sparks or burrs."

Thanks for your help. Also I am not affiliated with them and am not promoting their product. I just saw this at my local tool shop and had me wondering.

Respectfully,
James

AuS MaDDoG Fri 21 May 2010 16:32

Hi James,

The dry cut cold saws are the way to go, I bought one for my buildas well as a friends build and it done the job with ease.
Great piece of gear:D
And much quicker than the normal chop saws!!

Check out mine in my build thread!!
Cheers
Tony.

cleyte Fri 21 May 2010 17:45

Dry cut saw
 
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Hi James,

I have also purchased a dry cut saw. Just received it today. I purchased it from www.princessauto.com which is a retail chain in Canada. It cost $299, comes with a spare set of brushes and appears to be well built. It is made in China and seems identical to those sold by Northern Tool in the US.

I will try the saw over the next day or so and let you know if I am pleased.

Clayton

melissa Fri 21 May 2010 18:43

I have the same saw as Clayton, from Princess Auto.

It works like a champ. The only thing I don't like is the mitre gauge -- it's very difficult to read the gauge to set the correct angle (and, the blade cuts a tiny bit out-of-square from the actual base of the saw). Use a piece of scrap wood to test the angle first, before cutting steel.

Once it's set up to the angle you want, it cuts square and true.

Related to the mitre gauge, I've found that it's best to set up the saw for the angle cuts, and then make all the cuts that require that angle. That's easier than trying to replicate an angle later on.

Michel

jessyjames Fri 21 May 2010 19:26

Thanks guys for all your advice on this. It is exciting to be building another cnc machine. I mostly enjoy the build process even if it is frustrating for a woodworker.. ;)

I know the answer to my question now. Been watching videos and talking to 3 different machine shops and they all agreed that the cold saw is the way to go versus the abrasive saw...

Thanks once again.

James

jessyjames Sun 23 May 2010 20:57

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Got some dimensions here.
1. 8" Flange Beams for the main
2. 4" Flange Beams for the Legs
3. 2"x2" Square Tubing for the surrounding structure.

I too plan on doing the I-Beam bolt together design as I will be building it in my basement. Gerald's design is plenty enough but I am only going for aesthetics and will gain a few things with this different material. Any advice is welcome and respected.

Thanks in advance,
James

jessyjames Mon 24 May 2010 13:05

Well got my price quote for the steel this morning for the build from a major distributor who supplies steel to everyone. Would like to know how it compares to other peoples build, especially the ones who are doing the Flange beam build.

1 20ft 8" 18lb stick.....= $247.68
1 20ft 4" 13lb stick.....= $178.88
1 24ft 2" x 4" 3/16 stick.....= $75.49
3 20ft 3" C channels.....= $171.96
5 24ft 2" 14 gauge sticks.....$191.80
2 20ft 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" 1/4 angle.....$111.46

Grand Total: 977.27 x 1.07725 sales tax = $1052.76

jessyjames Mon 24 May 2010 17:25

Plan View of Proposed Table
 
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I have been doing a lot of reading and I think I understand how to determine what table dimensions you need.

1. You figure out what the biggest piece of material you will be using, my case it is 49" x 97".

For the y-axis as per: "10 10 300 W B"
Take the 97" + 23.6" = 120.6"

2. For the X-axis as per: "10 10 322 S A"
Take the 49" +17" = 66"

Hope I am right with this.

melissa Mon 24 May 2010 18:23

James,

It sounds like you're on the right track for the overall dimensions.

However, a few things to note from your diagram:

10 10 300 W B shows the cross bearers (10 10 302) equally spaced along the support board. If those are the cross pieces in your diagram, you have them equally spaced along the main beams instead.

Next, the cross bearers should be at a spacing of 10" to 14". You have them at 19" apart.

Finally, remember the 100mm [3.90"] offset shown on 10 10 300 W B. That's to allow the router full access to the cutting area, even though it's offset inside the Y car. You may want to mark the 0,0 corner in your working diagrams, as it's easy to forget which way the table is oriented!

Michel

Travish Mon 24 May 2010 18:53

Good start on your planning there James. Having used them both, go with the cold saw all the way. you will be time and money ahead, and will have a great tool in the end.

The prices on your steel look good for the sizes and weights. I spent a little less at $1,027 with tax for the whole machine.

Don't forget the table offset of 3.9" when drawing up your table.(depending on your plans of course.)

It will be cool to see another Wide flange Build.

Travis

jessyjames Mon 24 May 2010 20:17

Michel and Travis thanks for your input and it is greatly appreciated. I see the 3.90" offset and somehow I missed that baby. I have made that adjustment now and its looking good.

Thanks once again guys. I cant wait.

I also used the cold saw for the first time today just to see how it cuts steel and it was scary awesome. I 45'd a 2x2x.1875 tube steel and it cut it within 2 seconds. I had to go that fast to get rid of the sparks per the owners manual. I could not believe my eyes when I saw that thing cut. It's like cutting wood and should definitely be a time savor.. wow

James

jessyjames Tue 25 May 2010 19:22

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Well I am not good at all at 3d work and I am experimenting with Sketchup and trying to learn the software to see how stuff goes together. This is just a trial mock-up and once I actually get the steel I can pull measurements off of them and adjust accordingly and improve my modeling.

If this is stupid stuff to post Gerald or Mike just let me know and I will refrain from doing it.

Thanks,

James

Travish Wed 26 May 2010 08:28

James, How big is that main beam? It looks like it's 8.0" x 12"? One thing to look at is with how your support board is laid out, your going to be racking your shins on the square tubing when you lean in to work on the table.

jessyjames Wed 26 May 2010 09:00

Travis you have a great eye buddy. I never really paid attention to what the height of that beam is. It is " 12.5625" and was a dynamic block that I used in autocad and appears to be a little wrong... lol

I will take not of what you said and see what adjustments are needed. I understand the offset from the center-line of the base table and the offset of the center-line of the work piece.

By chance do you remember your dim's from the outsides of your I-beams in both the X & Y axis? Would like to compare mine to yours...

Thanks again,
James

Travish Wed 26 May 2010 09:07

Thanks James... LOL...

I have posted the Beam sizes I used in my build log, but The main beams are 4.0" x 8.0". I'll look tonight at my model and get the final outside dimensions for you to compare and check your work too.

Travis

cleyte Wed 26 May 2010 10:56

Hi James (and Travis)

I am keeping a watchful eye on this thread as I too will be using I beams in my build. In my neck-of-the-woods the metal suppliers carry the 8" beam but in a 5.25' flange width. Beams 8" x 4" are special order and have to be shipped from Montreal. I would prefer to use the 4 x 8 but cost may force my hand in another direction.

Clayton

Travish Wed 26 May 2010 18:46

James,

The outside dimensions for my table are 128.6" x 68.0". I followed Geralds plans for a movment of 50" x 105" even though my spoilboard will be 48" x 96". I wanted enough room on the sides and the ends for growth for tool racks and 4th axis etc... Also note that if you follow the plans you will come up with about a 67" dimension for the width on a 50" travel. I added 1.0" to that number because my rails will not be hanging off the tops of the beams. ( EX. the widths of the racks equal the 1.0". )

Regnar Wed 26 May 2010 19:25

James, Something you might want to consider is adding 6 legs instead of 4. You already have enough 4x4 ibeam and enough 2" square stock to complete it. Reason for 6 legs is so that you are able to store sheet goods under the table. The middle supports will have to be removed to allow you to slide sheets in. This should allow you to add more weight to the base, a little more support and use up all the 4x4 material so that there is little left overs.

Regnar Wed 26 May 2010 19:47

3 Attachment(s)
What I am doing with mine. This is just for an example. Everything is to scale but not the right lenghts. All the grey areas will be welded together. Purple and Blue will be bolted on.

jessyjames Wed 26 May 2010 23:48

Russell nice little mock up there and great use of the color coding... Simplifies what you are doing greatly.

I noticed that you too are putting an intermediate mullion in the middle and I like that as was suggested earlier. It will aid in storing sheets also as well as more mass.

On the storing of sheets subject I thought it would be nice to have some removable bracing that has welded 90's on it so one could quickly lock a piece in to accept different size sheets and just slide it to whatever position you desired? Not sure if my explanation made any sense but I think you get the picture...

Thanks for your time on that and Travis too. Great group of guys on this forum.

Best Regards,

James

jessyjames Thu 27 May 2010 12:14

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Got this idea from Ross and Tony for the skate jig. It is almost finished but am waiting on the skate laser parts and then I have to figure out how to hold the back portion of the grinder because it has one of those paddle handle on the underside that all your fingers wrap around and you squeeze. So that is going to take some thinking about.

I will be attaching another piece on top of the grinder to hold it in place. If this works than that would be cool. I purchased some expensive cut off disks so I am hoping that they are worth the investment.

If you guys see anything that might need to be changed just let me know.
On the jig itself I pocketed down .375" so the handles and the grinder holder will fit nice and snug and with no glue as I had to gently persuade her to nest.

Thanks and if Im not supposed to posting all these pictures just let me know so I can get rid of them. ;)

James

Gerald D Thu 27 May 2010 12:26

James, tell us more about the CNC router in the background? The tool "chatter" marks on the handles are very similar to what we saw with a direct drive stepper motor setup.

jessyjames Thu 27 May 2010 14:22

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Gerald, I built a Joe's cnc 4x4 machine with the Rack & Pinon modification.

It was a good starter cnc machine but it has way too many flaws as regards with cut quality. The z-axis flex's really bad from front to back. It is good enough for the hobbiest in mind only.

That machine is setup with:
1. cnc router parts rack and pinon kit for a nema 23 setup.
2. The rack I got at "Moore Gear" and it's for the 20/20 rack .75"x.75"x.5"
3. Motors are nema 23.
4. I am using a hitachi router : m12vc 2.5 h.p.

My toolpaths setup for this jig was:
1. Pocket to .375" deep with a .25" bit and an .125" depth pass.
2. The feed rate was 240ipm for the pocketing.
3. The cutout of the base, grinder holder, and the handles was the same as above but at 320ipm.
The material was .76" thick mdf

I have been fighting with the cut quality from day one but the rack and pinon setup actually made a difference than the original acme screws but what helps me get rid of the tool marks/steps down marks is to do a final pass at full depth with the final dimension so I use two tool paths for the cutout of the part. I just didn't with these parts... now embarrassed :o

jessyjames Thu 27 May 2010 19:39

Here is a question for the fabricator guys. I have the "cold cut chop saw" and I was wondering if you think it could cut a 4" x 4" I-Beam ?

It cut through the 2"x 2" x .125" tube steel like butter but am a little warry about cutting the beam as it just doesn't seem right. If I can't do it than I will take it to a machine shop and they will cut it for $5.00 per cut.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I do not want to spend a $100.00 bucks for a new blade.... Now typing this I just thought that I should just error on the safe side and have it cut if I am having doubts...

Hmmm.

James

smreish Thu 27 May 2010 19:49

...well, My harbor freight "cold cut skil saw" cut through the 8" channel like butter. You will find that the depth of cut will not make it through in one pass from one side, thus two sided cutting, but you should be fine. All this said as long as your I Beam doesn't have a web or flange that is around 3/16" to 5/16" thick.

Good luck.

jessyjames Thu 27 May 2010 21:08

Sean what you said is what I was afraid of. I think my walls are around 5/16" thick so it looks like tomorrow I have an errand to run and get this done for $30.00.. :(

On to another request... I have been searching and searching for over an hour and I can find it. I saw a post where someone attempted to post a "Material List" for the skate. I have used the search function but cant find that one post I remembered... Anyone have a better "Verbiage" that I can use to find it?

Thanks

jessyjames Fri 28 May 2010 00:01

Ha !!! Perseverance finally pays off... :D

I finally found what I was looking for.. Three hours later and it's a done deal. Love that search function...

For anyone who was looking for it here it is:

Beginning of quote:

"There is not a parts list for building the rail skate M610100A so I did my best to make one up:"

Bosch Grinder (US): 1347A
Bearings: 8 of 6001 Bearing (12mm ID, 28mm OD, 8mm Width (www.superiorbearing.com part 6001-2RS)
Eccentric Bushings: 4 of M1 20 210 T (www.superiorbearing.com part B3X)
Bearing Posts: 4 of 5/16" x 2" long - Pan/Flat head
Bearing Posts: 4 of 5/16" nuts
Bearing Posts: 4 of 5/16" washers
Plate bindings: 2 of 5/16" bolts
Plate bindings: 4 of 5/16" washers
Plate bindings: 2 of 5/16" nuts
Angle Adjustment: 2 of 5/16" x 3" full body thread
Angle Adjustment: 6 of 5/16" nuts
Angle Adjustment: 8 of 5/16" washers
Rail Rider Height Adjustment: 2 of 1/2" x 1 1/2" Stainless Steel Bolt (requires drill/tap hole to 1/2")
Rail Rider Height Adjustment: 2 of 1/2" nuts"

Special thanks to "DAVID THE THIEF" :confused:

jessyjames Sun 17 October 2010 15:06

I get the bone head award today and they will keep coming I am sure. I got the angle grinder skate and thanks... looks great.

Ok the problem is that I didn't go with the recommended grinder and went with the "Milwaukee 6148-30 4-1/2-Inch Small Angle Grinder" As I take off the guard and try to put on the skate the circular hole that is cut out in the middle of the skate has a bigger diameter than what my grinder is. Does this mean that I have to fabricate something to the skate that has a smaller diameter circle so that the retaining nut can secure the skate to the grinder?

I know this explanation is horrible but I do not have a camera right now because the charger walked away from me so no picture is available....

Any help would be appreciated.

Respectfully,
James

bradm Sun 17 October 2010 15:57

James, I have a 6148 as well. The skate is held to the grinder by the screws, not a retaining nut. IIRC, you remove the screws that hold the face of the grinding head on, and run them through the skate plate and back in - I think you have to get slightly longer screws.

jessyjames Sun 17 October 2010 17:51

Brad Im looking but having a hard time taking some components off. Will have to look at some schmatics to see how to disassemble the grinder.. Although that something inside is telling me I went way in left field with understanding your explanation.. Pictures are worth a thousand words... lol

Stay tuned... Pathetic I am

smreish Sun 17 October 2010 19:10

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...=grinder+skate

This might help explain how to mount small grinder to skate parts.

Sean

jessyjames Sun 17 October 2010 19:51

Sean as always thanks. I did try what was shown but it looks like the skate that I purchased has a 1.85" diameter hole and is just a bit too small to fit over the motor shaft.. I might just have to do it like Gerald did and forget about the skate that I got from Metal Mike.

Again thanks for the help. It sure feels good to finally get back on the build instead of looking for a job all this time.. Now that that is handled I can resume this great design. :)

James

smreish Sun 17 October 2010 20:22

James. Get a dremel cone grinder and chuck it up on a drill press or drill and grind it open. I had to open it up for my ryobi too. Tskes about ten minutes and 5 bucks.

Regnar Sun 17 October 2010 21:33

The $9.99 4 1/2" Orange angle grinder from Harbor Freight will fit it just fine. The grinder lasted me all my rails and was able to keep my Dewalt angle grinder in good condition. I dont normally abuse tools but I beat the hell out of the Harbor Freight angle grinder and it lasted up to when I needed it. Then I swapped it out for a new one.

jessyjames Sun 30 January 2011 09:49

Still haven't really touched the rails as of yet. I am working on Travis' skate and its a slow go. I started fabricating my I-beam base and learning to weld has been a fun progress. Here you will find some pics of the build so far. Still lots to do but it's exciting to be building something once again.

Now some questions for you guys if you do not mind.

1. I have 6 legs for my base. Do I level these and make sure they are all on the same plane before drilling any of my holes for the panels to attach to? Or could I mark off from the top of the leg down to a known point and attach all my panels that way and then worry about leveling the legs.. I can see in my minds eye that it wouldn't matter at this point as long as I keep that same measurement for each leg and panel.. Of course I know it needs to be leveled and that is what I am doing this morning.

2. I pulled diagonals to get the base squared up and I am within a 1/16" of an inch. I believe this is OK and I am sure this can be adjusted a bit more. So before I get the rail I-beam to sit on my table legs this should all be squared up correct? I'm sure it needs to be but would like reassurance.

3. Now the I-beam rail will be sitting on 3 legs. I was thinking of welding a 3/8" plate to sit on top of the I-beam leg and then I would drill 4 holes to attach the I-beam rail to it. Does this sound like what some of you guys did who built the I-beam mechmate?

4. I didn't construct this table upside down because I didn't have the I-beam rails yet so I started with the base and was planning to sit it on top after the fact. You see any problems with this?

So with that said this is my next plan of attack if you guys think is wise.

I will weld on the 3/8" plates that go onto the table legs. Than I will also do that somehow to the bottom of the legs for the leveling feet. Next I will get the I-beam and sit it onto the legs and level that the best I can.

Now a side note.... My base is currently 133.25" inches or so from leg to leg in length and I was thinking of taking a 24' I-beam and cutting it right in half to give me 12' pieces. Than I would have that stick out the front of my table by roughly 12" give or take. Does that sound OK. Of course the biggest sheet goods that I will be cutting is 49" x 97". The extra space is for a 4th axis in the future....

My base right now from outside of legs is: 68 1/2"W X 133 1/2"L

I'm out of wind now and sorry for the long post as I should of broken it down a bit..

Respectfully,

James

jessyjames Sun 30 January 2011 14:01

Oh also I was wondering how to make my pictures bigger on this forum.. I read the guidelines and the sizing but I lose all detail when I upload them to the forum. I noticed many builders pictures are quite large looking and I would like to be able to do that. Any secrets guys would be great so that I can upload the pictures.....

Thanks once again,
James

jessyjames Sun 30 January 2011 21:21

3 Attachment(s)
Some pictures


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